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iced

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If I am a city that is being leveraged I am going to use the fact that the NFL walked away from public funds in another stadium situation.

^ Exaaacctttllyyy... And I think this is what everyone is watching - congress, owners, cities, governors, senators, fans, etc.

another big reason why I'm not keen on the owners waiving fee's and allowing G4 loans to move out of state - it's setting a precedent and future owners can argue the same thing "Well you did it for such and such team"
 

bluecoconuts

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I agree but none of those other cities have a viable stadium plan or public funds. If you relocate the Chargers and Raiders you are still able to reach to one of those other fan bases from LA. If the Rams move then the team that get left out in the cold will more than likely not get a new stadium forcing them to relocate. Losing the original home market and then you have to start over. Since the Rams have a strong fan base outside of California and what appears to a viable stadium plan it make more sense for the Rams to work it out in their current market. The success of the NFL is predicated on doing what is best for the league not individual teams. That is why the share revenue and imposed a salary cap. This model has produced the most balance and competition across the league. At face value if the Rams relocate you are effectively screwing one of the teams in essentially hurting the league.

The problem is that the stadium plan is contingent with Stan agreeing to it. If he doesn't want that plan then it's no longer viable to the Rams. It's easy to say "Well it's acceptable to NFL standards, so therefore he should take it." but if he doesn't want it then he doesn't want it. The plans that San Diego or Oakland have/are putting forward might be acceptable to another owner, should they be forced to stay to? Everyone can make that argument if that is the case. The fanbase outside of California means nothing, the Rams didn't have a fanbase in St Louis when they first moved there in 95, that didn't seem to stop them. You say if the Rams move then one of the teams needs to relocate because there's no threat, but if Inglewood is open not only is that a threat, but it's a more credible threat. Not only are they thinking about moving, but there's a stadium there for them. And if the Chargers go anyway, then there's a deal in St Louis. And if there's no deal in St Louis anymore, there's a deal in Portland, or San Antonio, or Toronto.. There's always a deal somewhere if need be. LA isn't the only city in the US that can have an NFL team.

The NFL wants public funds and when teams are having difficulty getting those funds the magic bullet they use in the treat of relocation. If the NFL walks away from public money then why would those cities take the threat of relocating seriously? TB, Jax, and Carolina are the next group of teams that will angle for upgrades or a new stadium. While Jax is in the lease until 2030 they have outs after 2020. I am in no way saying that the teams will not accept public funds, I am saying that those cities will be more likely to refuse to provide funds. If I am a city that is being leveraged I am going to use the fact that the NFL walked away from public funds in another stadium

But those teams have been having issues for a while, and it hasn't helped. If anything having a city with an open proposal on the table (much like St Louis did after losing out on the expansion bid for the Stallions) it makes threats more credible. As I said before, it's not just "oh we're gonna move, watch me park my team jet at an airport." there's "We have a city right here that is willing to take us."

And if the Raiders move to St Louis, then again, there's always threats. If cities just give up and decide not to offer any public assistance against the threat of relocation, because the team might leave anyway, then they weren't going to offer it anyway, so what's the point? If anything it can help strengthen their leverage. It's not just that they need to offer up something to the table, they need to offer up something good, something that the owner wants. Take Spanos for example, say he was independent of all this and the Rams left. Now he could go to San Diego and say "See? They didn't make the right deal and they lost their team. So you need to make that Downtown option work."

Versus the message that "Yeah, as long as you make something, no matter what the owner wants we'll make sure they can't leave." Now that puts the owners in a hard place, and that's not what they want.
 

The Ripper

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iced

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A few places have the info that long article on the 1996 Congressional. Raiders info i towards the end.

http://archive.org/stream/professionalspor00unit/professionalspor00unit_djvu.txt

Also the CBA and the NFL Constitution and Bylaws. In the bylaws look at the resolutions for relocation for the different teams.

http://thesportsesquires.com/resources/policies-manuals-constitutions-cbas/

There's nothing in the by laws about Blacks out and revenue, hardly anything about black outs at all.
I don't see anything that links teams losing revenue from black outs in the other article either.
 

The Ripper

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There's nothing in the by laws about Blacks out and revenue, hardly anything about black outs at all.
I don't see anything that links teams losing revenue from black outs in the other article either.

It will show the revenue adjustments for moving markets. The blackouts for the Raiders shows up in the letter from Tagliabue to the executive committee for the approval of the Raiders move back to Oakland.
 

Goose

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The problem is that the stadium plan is contingent with Stan agreeing to it.....

3qyx0g.jpg
 

OldSchool

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NFL must have felt differently,otherwise I don't think they would have changed their black out policy.

http://nypost.com/2014/12/04/congress-has-nfls-anti-trust-exemption-in-its-crosshairs/

You may not think its credible - I believe the NFL definitely does.


And for whatever its worth, its the one thing my old man (Law Professor, Business/Corporate law) keeps reiterating to me as a point of emphasis. And with how quickly the NFL lapsed on their black out rule gives that more credence, imo.

My guess is they changed the blackout rule for when a team relocates to LA. The first couple of years they'll be playing their home games in stadiums with 92,000+ seating. Hard enough for most teams to sell 60k seats let alone 90k. Changing the rules would prevent blackouts until a smaller(though not by much for the stadium Kroenke proposed) stadiums are built.
 

iced

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It will show the revenue adjustments for moving markets. The blackouts for the Raiders shows up in the letter from Tagliabue to the executive committee for the approval of the Raiders move back to Oakland.

reading through it right now....just read something very interesting

And the NFL initially rejected the proposed move of the Rams from Southern
California to St. Louis. However, after threats by the Rams and the Missouri
Attorney General that they would seek billions in antitrust damages, the mem-
bership of the NFL reversed itself. In his November 29 testimony before the Ju-
diciaiy Subcommittee on Antitrust, Conmussioner Tagliabue indicated that this
move would have been blocked had some antitrust protection been in place.

The Fans Ri^ts Act seeks to restore some stability to professional sports and pre-
serve its integrity. It makes sure that leagues have the ability to enforce their own
rules and that a set process is followed before a relocation can occur.

I wonder what they really could of done? Will ask my old man that (lol watch him say "Nothing"). And I say its interesting because it was '96
 

iced

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My guess is they changed the blackout rule for when a team relocates to LA. The first couple of years they'll be playing their home games in stadiums with 92,000+ seating. Hard enough for most teams to sell 60k seats let alone 90k. Changing the rules would prevent blackouts until a smaller(though not by much for the stadium Kroenke proposed) stadiums are built.

It was the threat of losing their Exemptions

http://nypost.com/2014/12/04/congress-has-nfls-anti-trust-exemption-in-its-crosshairs/

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...blackout-rule-risk-losing-antitrust-exemption
Senators from both parties warned the National Football League on Thursday to get rid of a four-decade-old TV "blackout'' rule or risk congressional action to restrict the league's lucrative antitrust exemption, which allows NFL teams to negotiate radio and television broadcast rights together.
 

The Ripper

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reading through it right now....just read something very interesting



I wonder what they really could of done? Will ask my old man that (lol watch him say "Nothing"). And I say its interesting because it was '96

The proposed law also had a provision that would have required relocating teams that had been in a market for a period of time to leave the team name. That part was shot down because it went against trademark laws.
 

iced

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The proposed law also had a provision that would have required relocating teams that had been in a market for a period of time to leave the team name. That part was shot down because it went against trademark laws.

Yea I really can't think of any provisions that could have been put in. In the sherman act it says very blatantly there is no restraint of trade, or you cannot tell someone where they can and can't do business.

Can you copy and paste what you were referencing as far as black outs and revenue? I can't find anything close to it and i'm not gonna spend all night looking for it lol
 

The Ripper

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Yea I really can't think of any provisions that could have been put in. In the sherman act it says very blatantly there is no restraint of trade, or you cannot tell someone where they can and can't do business.

Can you copy and paste what you were referencing as far as black outs and revenue? I can't find anything close to it and i'm not gonna spend all night looking for it lol

I was told that blackouts can cause a change in the tv contracts but it would only happen if it was significant. The issue is more for the local sponsors and the tv affiliate but the networks have been pushing the league for awhile to do away with them.

I am looking through it in regards to the Raiders because a majority of their games in the early 90's were blacked out.
 

RamFan503

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No, the FCC did not get rid of all black outs entirely, hence the reason why the congress kept threatening them even after the fact.

https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-eliminates-sports-blackout-rules
Are there other blackouts besides sports blackouts?

And still is written into those contracts and the NFLs bylaws. There is a reason why they say they suspended the blackouts rather than ended them.

and here, again after the timeline of everything you've said (their ruling was September 30, 2014; everything i have mentioned has been as Recent as December 2014)
http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...blackout-rule-risk-losing-antitrust-exemption
More sword rattling as they always do when the public cries about rich guys doing something naughty. The bill had almost no chance of passing. Otherwise they would have just passed it and forced the NFL to actually eliminate the practice. Instead, they grandstanded after a bunch of fans were worried that they might miss a playoff game on TV. A playoff game not sold out? WTF??? Maybe Congress should go after price gouging on the tickets instead.

Don't get me wrong, the blackout rule is idiotic - especially in this day and age. But this was politicians being politicians and the rule ALWAYS in politics is to make hay on subjects that pull on emotions. They are self serving sycophants for the most part and will capitalize on anything that gets them in front of the cameras. The reason they keep bringing up the anti-trust crap is not because they intend to take away an exemption that makes perfect sense for the industry using it. It is because it is the only thing they can explain away easily enough for the masses to understand and it sounds like they have some big sledge hammer to hit the NFL with. Never mind that it would be an idiotic move and likely never make it out of committee.

In the NFL's case, why just continue on with something they rarely use? So they can spend millions defending the practice?

I'm sure some politicians will rattle their sabers in this next round of relocation. Someone somewhere is going to lose a team and there will be politicians a plenty threatening the NFL's anti-trust exemption yet again like the paper tigers they are.
 

iced

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I was told that blackouts can cause a change in the tv contracts but it would only happen if it was significant. The issue is more for the local sponsors and the tv affiliate but the networks have been pushing the league for awhile to do away with them.

I am looking through it in regards to the Raiders because a majority of their games in the early 90's were blacked out.

Think it might be in here? found something from here

http://www.sfgate.com/sports/article/Rams-Move-Is-OK-d-By-NFL-Georgia-Frontiere-I-3038220.php
On top of a $30 million relocation fee to the league, the Rams also will pay $17 million of the $74 million FANS Inc. raised in personal seat license money to finance the move. The Rams and the NFL will split any loss incurred by the Fox network as a result of leaving the No. 2 TV market.

^ Although I would say thats normal when a team relocates - depending on how their market goes over time allows their fee to fluctuate

And still is written into those contracts and the NFLs bylaws. There is a reason why they say they suspended the blackouts rather than ended them.

Or do you really think they wanna call their bluff? I don't - the FCC wanted the blackout rule gone, they removed it, but the NFL did not. I'd argue thats what congress/gov't wanted in the first place, and when the NFL still didn't do it, they made their threat. The noise grew louder by the end of the season, and the owners decided to finally cave. And why not? There weren't any black outs last year, and only 2 the year before.

More sword rattling as they always do when the public cries about rich guys doing something naughty. The bill had almost no chance of passing. Otherwise they would have just passed it and forced the NFL to actually eliminate the practice. Instead, they grandstanded after a bunch of fans were worried that they might miss a playoff game on TV. A playoff game not sold out? WTF??? Maybe Congress should go after price gouging on the tickets instead.

Don't get me wrong, the blackout rule is idiotic - especially in this day and age. But this was politicians being politicians and the rule ALWAYS in politics is to make hay on subjects that pull on emotions. They are self serving sycophants for the most part and will capitalize on anything that gets them in front of the cameras. The reason they keep bringing up the anti-trust crap is not because they intend to take away an exemption that makes perfect sense for the industry using it. It is because it is the only thing they can explain away easily enough for the masses to understand and it sounds like they have some big sledge hammer to hit the NFL with. Never mind that it would be an idiotic move and likely never make it out of committee.

In the NFL's case, why just continue on with something they rarely use? So they can spend millions defending the practice?

I'm sure some politicians will rattle their sabers in this next round of relocation. Someone somewhere is going to lose a team and there will be politicians a plenty threatening the NFL's anti-trust exemption yet again like the paper tigers they are.

I think the public is crying for all the reasons you mentioned - especially in this economy in this day and age. Another way of looking at it is, especially for cities that have publically funded stadiums that are being paid for through taxes, they shouldn't be allowed to black out games. Tax payers are already paying for it.

Makes sense to get rid of it - but I do believe their threat was credible.
 
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RamFan503

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reading through it right now....just read something very interesting



I wonder what they really could of done? Will ask my old man that (lol watch him say "Nothing"). And I say its interesting because it was '96
You are referring to the Fan Rights Act that never actually came to a vote?:whistle: :cool:
 

iced

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You are referring to the Fan Rights Act that never actually came to a vote?:whistle: :cool:

i have no idea - i was just skimming through looking for what he was talking about, searching for "Tagliabue" when I came across that lol

you guys got some history on me - back then I was negotiating for more time to play in the street lol :cool::D
 

RamFan503

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Or do you really think they wanna call their bluff? I don't - the FCC wanted the blackout rule gone, they removed it, but the NFL did not. I'd argue thats what congress/gov't wanted in the first place, and when the NFL still didn't do it, they made their threat. The noise grew louder by the end of the season, and the owners decided to finally cave. And why not? There weren't any black outs last year, and only 2 the year before.
Why not indeed? And yes - it was noise.

I think the public is crying for all the reasons you mentioned - especially in this economy in this day and age. Another way of looking at it is, especially for cities that have publically funded stadiums that are being paid for through taxes, they shouldn't be allowed to black out games. Tax payers are already paying for it.

Makes sense to get rid of it - but I do believe their threat was credible.

While I agree with both of these, I still don't see Congress actually getting rid of the league's anti-trust exemptions. Congress does some pretty stupid stuff but this one would not only be difficult to grow legs but would be a fight the NFL would actually spend resources on defeating.
 

RamFan503

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i have no idea - i was just skimming through looking for what he was talking about, searching for "Tagliabue" when I came across that lol

you guys got some history on me - back then I was negotiating for more time to play in the street lol :cool::D
Yeah - interesting that John Glenn - one of the most powerful politicians in DC at the time - couldn't even get it out of committee.
 

RamFan503

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Could employ some of these type of deals.

10mt.gif


Looks to be what....about 25 spots for 2-3 spots of lands space.
I like it. You could have the driver blow into a breathalyzer before he can drive off. Dibbs on the pancake house next door to this thing.
 
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