Moving back into the 1st?

[shaunpinney]

Hi guys, With McVay, Phillips and Snead now in place do we see an attempt at getting back into the 1st, or are we happy to run with our Rd2 as our first pick? Or will we see another scenario?

 

[Boston Ram]

I dont think we have enough assets to put us in a position to get in the first.

 

[FrantikRam]

I don't know if he's tradable with his contract, but Robert Quinn is the one asset that we should arguably move if we can.

Back problems for pro athletes are second only to head injuries, and a team like the Cowboys have the situation to risk such a deal.

Trading Tavon, Gurley and Donald are other options - so we do have the assets, and reasons to potentially trade them all. Some (Tavon, Gurley) more than others (Donald).

Tavon would be a great piece for a team like the Patriots or Packers - but those teams rarely make deals like that.

 

[Dxmissile]

I don't know if he's tradable with his contract, but Robert Quinn is the one asset that we should arguably move if we can.

Back problems for pro athletes are second only to head injuries, and a team like the Cowboys have the situation to risk such a deal.

Trading Tavon, Gurley and Donald are other options - so we do have the assets, and reasons to potentially trade them all. Some (Tavon, Gurley) more than others (Donald).

Tavon would be a great piece for a team like the Patriots or Packers - but those teams rarely make deals like that.

Lol you wanna trade away the entire team..

 

[FrantikRam]

Lol you wanna trade away the entire team..

I don't necessarily want to, but the rose colored glasses have to come off now that Fisher is gone. Gurley looked like a great pick last year, terrible pick this year. Tavon is questionable. Quinn may never be the same - these would all classify as "sell high" guys if we had a taker.

As for Donald - it would have to be a Herschel Walker type of trade, so I really doubt he gets traded, but the perks would be:

multiple picks and at least 1 first rounder
his pay won't add up to team success - will he get better? Maybe. It'd be hard to because he's THAT good already - and yet our defense hasn't been elite. Are we prepared to make him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history?

He's great - and I'll be fine obviously if we keep him - but that contract...

 

[dolphinlover123]

I think if we have to move, I would rather us go down than up to get more draft picks.

 

[jrry32]

Nah. IMO, we're fine where we are.

 

[jrry32]

I don't necessarily want to, but the rose colored glasses have to come off now that Fisher is gone. Gurley looked like a great pick last year, terrible pick this year. Tavon is questionable. Quinn may never be the same - these would all classify as "sell high" guys if we had a taker.

As for Donald - it would have to be a Herschel Walker type of trade, so I really doubt he gets traded, but the perks would be:

multiple picks and at least 1 first rounder
his pay won't add up to team success - will he get better? Maybe. It'd be hard to because he's THAT good already - and yet our defense hasn't been elite. Are we prepared to make him the highest paid defensive player in NFL history?

He's great - and I'll be fine obviously if we keep him - but that contract...

You're talking about the opposite of selling high. You're talking about selling low on each and every one of those guys. Selling high would have been trading Gurley after his rookie year. This is the worst time to try and trade those guys.

And the entire NFL would laugh at the Rams if we even entertained trading Donald. It would be as foolish of a move as the Eagles letting Reggie White walk in Free Agency.

 

[Dodgersrf]

You're talking about the opposite of selling high. You're talking about selling low on each and every one of those guys. Selling high would have been trading Gurley after his rookie year. This is the worst time to try and trade those guys.

And the entire NFL would laugh at the Rams if we even entertained trading Donald. It would be as foolish of a move as the Eagles letting Reggie White walk in Free Agency.

Or as bad as the Rams letting Bettis go or Dickerson or Green or Everett or........................

 

[Riverumbbq]

Not into the 1'st necessarily, but i'd give some consideration towards letting go of our 2018 4'th to swap 2'nd round picks with Cleveland. They are already loaded with high draft picks, so they may be willing to play a little. It's only 4 spots, but it might guarantee an elite player at the lower end of the 1'st falling into our hands. Maybe a 5'th and a player like Trinca-Pasat or Westbrooks ? jmo.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not into the 1'st necessarily, but i'd give some consideration towards letting go of our 2018 4'th to swap 2'nd round picks with Cleveland. They are already loaded with high draft picks, so they may be willing to play a little. It's only 4 spots, but it might guarantee an elite player at the lower end of the 1'st falling into our hands. Maybe a 5'th and a player like Trinca-Pasat or Westbrooks ? jmo.

I don't think Brockers can play the NT and is too slow to play outside. Maybe Cleveland wants him for their transition to the 4-3?

 

[Riverumbbq]

I don't think Brockers can play the NT and is too slow to play outside. Maybe Cleveland wants him for their transition to the 4-3?

Cleveland has Danny Shelton, and I don't think they'll give him up. They will probably move one of their big 3/4 DE's in next to him to play the UT role. They also drafted Ogbah in 2016, so I'd guess they will move him from ROLB to DE. I don't believe they have anyone else which would be as good as Hayes opposite Ogbah though.
I'm not convinced Brockers couldn't handle NT, but what has you thinking he wouldn't be up for it ? We could always just re-sign Cam Thomas for another season, he'd certainly be cheap enough, and maybe that would be a more natural position for him anyway. jmo.

 

[shaunpinney]

I guess picking #5 in Rd2 we're bound to get a potential 'elite' talent left on the board - It'll be interesting to see how the draft is handled with McVay & Snead...

 

[FrantikRam]

You're talking about the opposite of selling high. You're talking about selling low on each and every one of those guys. Selling high would have been trading Gurley after his rookie year. This is the worst time to try and trade those guys.

And the entire NFL would laugh at the Rams if we even entertained trading Donald. It would be as foolish of a move as the Eagles letting Reggie White walk in Free Agency.

I didn't mean sell high based on their production last season - I assumed that anyone would throw that out, given the way the season went as a whole. For Gurley it would be similar to what the Browns did with Richardson. Tavon and Quinn have shown what they can do and because of their age, I still view that as selling high. If we didn't trade any of them I would be fine with that, but they're all risks moving forward, and I guess I should have used a different term than "sell high" - it's more like betting that they won't be productive for the Rams and getting something in return while we can.

Not saying we should do it, just that it's an option. If I'm a team like the Patriots or Packers, I salivate thinking what Tavon Austin could do in my offense - again, I know those teams don't usually trade, just pointing out that I can see there being interest there. Same with Gurley and Quinn.

Donald is a different situation, but still one that needs discussed. For all Donald's greatness, our defense has been subpar during his tenure here thus far - maybe it's the coaching. But I have a hard time giving any player the highest contract for their position in NFL history when the fruits of their labor are middle of the pack defenses. Donald is better than Suh, but it's still an apt comparison - the Lions haven't missed him much, and definitely not compared to the price tag he has.

These are all Fisher's players, and anything goes here - these guys are just the only ones I see as potentially tradable assets. And again, I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do it - being honest about it, I would like to retain most of our guys and see what McVay can do with them

 

[jrry32]

I don't think Brockers can play the NT and is too slow to play outside. Maybe Cleveland wants him for their transition to the 4-3?

Brockers can play both NT or outside in Wade's defense.

 

[jrry32]

I didn't mean sell high based on their production last season - I assumed that anyone would throw that out, given the way the season went as a whole. For Gurley it would be similar to what the Browns did with Richardson. Tavon and Quinn have shown what they can do and because of their age, I still view that as selling high. If we didn't trade any of them I would be fine with that, but they're all risks moving forward, and I guess I should have used a different term than "sell high" - it's more like betting that they won't be productive for the Rams and getting something in return while we can.

That's what we did with Jerome Bettis. Sure didn't work out well for us. Let's not have a fire sale right after hiring a new head coach who isn't completely incompetent on the offensive side of the ball.

Not saying we should do it, just that it's an option. If I'm a team like the Patriots or Packers, I salivate thinking what Tavon Austin could do in my offense - again, I know those teams don't usually trade, just pointing out that I can see there being interest there. Same with Gurley and Quinn.

Austin is a bad fit in the Patriots offense. And the Packers have Randall Cobb.

Donald is a different situation, but still one that needs discussed. For all Donald's greatness, our defense has been subpar during his tenure here thus far - maybe it's the coaching. But I have a hard time giving any player the highest contract for their position in NFL history when the fruits of their labor are middle of the pack defenses. Donald is better than Suh, but it's still an apt comparison - the Lions haven't missed him much, and definitely not compared to the price tag he has.

That's not even remotely accurate.

And the Lions have certainly missed Suh. That team getting better after Suh left is due to their talent level improving. They'd be an even better team with Suh.

These are all Fisher's players, and anything goes here - these guys are just the only ones I see as potentially tradable assets. And again, I'm not saying we should or shouldn't do it - being honest about it, I would like to retain most of our guys and see what McVay can do with them

The guys I'd look to deal this offseason are:
1. William Hayes
2. Mark Barron
3. Rodger Saffold

I'm going to try and work with whatever else I have.

 

[FrantikRam]

That's what we did with Jerome Bettis. Sure didn't work out well for us. Let's not have a fire sale right after hiring a new head coach who isn't completely incompetent on the offensive side of the ball.



Austin is a bad fit in the Patriots offense. And the Packers have Randall Cobb.



That's not even remotely accurate.

And the Lions have certainly missed Suh. That team getting better after Suh left is due to their talent level improving. They'd be an even better team with Suh.



The guys I'd look to deal this offseason are:
1. William Hayes
2. Mark Barron
3. Rodger Saffold

I'm going to try and work with whatever else I have.

How did moving Bettis NOT work out for us? Doubtful we trade for Marshall if we keep Bettis. Several people have commented that there's no GSOT without Marshall, and thus, no super bowl. You never know what will or won't help your franchise long term, but trading Bettis worked out well for us.

Austin is not a bad fit for any offense. He's an explosive player whose attributes would be amplified by an elite QB and good offensive staff.

How is it not accurate that the Rams defense has been subpar the past two years? We rank well in some areas, poor in others. Overall, the defense hasn't performed above average though. And considering there's nobody on offense that's even close to as good as Donald is on defense, it only re-enforces my point by saying that the offense impacted the defense.

Could their talent level have improved if they kept Suh? Probably not. Again, that was my point. They're not missing him because of the salary that would have come with him, and the limitations it would have placed on their roster.

Donald is a great player, and I'd be thrilled if he was a Ram for life. But when he needs re-signed it's going to be a tough pill to swallow.

I'd also be fine just moving the guys you listed above.

 

[jrry32]

How did moving Bettis NOT work out for us? Doubtful we trade for Marshall if we keep Bettis. Several people have commented that there's no GSOT without Marshall, and thus, no super bowl. You never know what will or won't help your franchise long term, but trading Bettis worked out well for us.

This is terrible logic. We traded a HOF HB and a 3rd for a 2nd and a 4th. That's a loser of a deal. Us lucking into Faulk three years later doesn't make it a less shitty deal.

Austin is not a bad fit for any offense. He's an explosive player whose attributes would be amplified by an elite QB and good offensive staff.

Austin is a bad fit for New England's offense. Their offense is based around reading defenses on the fly and precise route running. Those are not Austin's strengths. Austin would make more sense in an offense like Kyle Shanahan's or Bruce Arians's.

How is it not accurate that the Rams defense has been subpar the past two years? We rank well in some areas, poor in others. Overall, the defense hasn't performed above average though. And considering there's nobody on offense that's even close to as good as Donald is on defense, it only re-enforces my point by saying that the offense impacted the defense.

How is it not accurate? We ranked top 5 in defensive points per game allowed in 2014 and top 10 in 2015. In 2016, we were among the best in the NFL until the team quit following that New Orleans blowout.

Our defense hasn't been remotely subpar. It's an incredibly inaccurate description.

Could their talent level have improved if they kept Suh? Probably not. Again, that was my point. They're not missing him because of the salary that would have come with him, and the limitations it would have placed on their roster.

Yes, it could have.

If you think our team can't improve its talent level while keeping Donald, the Rams need to fire their entire front office.

Donald is a great player, and I'd be thrilled if he was a Ram for life. But when he needs re-signed it's going to be a tough pill to swallow.

It's not going to be a tough pill to swallow. Elite players aren't replaceable. You pay them. The Rams would be fools to trade Aaron Donald. It would be one of the worst moves in the history of the franchise.

I'd also be fine just moving the guys you listed above.

I think selling low on our talented offensive guys when we just brought in an offensive-minded HC makes no sense. As for Quinn, the only way I consider dealing him is if I have a replacement signed in FA. Even then, it would take AT LEAST mid-first round value for me to consider trading him.

 

[FrantikRam]

This is terrible logic. We traded a HOF HB and a 3rd for a 2nd and a 4th. That's a loser of a deal. Us lucking into Faulk three years later doesn't make it a less crappy deal.



Austin is a bad fit for New England's offense. Their offense is based around reading defenses on the fly and precise route running. Those are not Austin's strengths. Austin would make more sense in an offense like Kyle Shanahan's or Bruce Arians's.



How is it not accurate? We ranked top 5 in defensive points per game allowed in 2014 and top 10 in 2015. In 2016, we were among the best in the NFL until the team quit following that New Orleans blowout.

Our defense hasn't been remotely subpar. It's an incredibly inaccurate description.



Yes, it could have.

If you think our team can't improve its talent level while keeping Donald, the Rams need to fire their entire front office.



It's not going to be a tough pill to swallow. Elite players aren't replaceable. You pay them. The Rams would be fools to trade Aaron Donald. It would be one of the worst moves in the history of the franchise.



I think selling low on our talented offensive guys when we just brought in an offensive-minded HC makes no sense. As for Quinn, the only way I consider dealing him is if I have a replacement signed in FA. Even then, it would take AT LEAST mid-first round value for me to consider trading him.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Bettis might not have been a HOF running back had he stayed with the Rams, and if we don't trade him we likely never win the super bowl. Saying it was a loser of a deal is fine, but he didn't want to play with the Rams anyways. The deal worked out great for both sides.

I think Tavon is a unique talent that has to be worked into an offense, but one that I think most offenses would want to work in.

And we'll definitely have to agree to disagree on the defense. They've been bad in some areas, good in others. Your example about PPG from last year is one of those good areas. We ranked 13 in yards per play, 14 in rush yards per attempt and 15 in yards per pass attempt. Our scoring defense overall was good because we had great redzone defense. But we allowed 35 field goals. That number, coupled with our middling rankings in yards allowed tells me that our defense wasn't great. Overall they were "good", but that's a relative thing. With our talent we should have been top 10 in every statistical category IMO. So for me, that's "par" - therefore to be we were subpar. Our team was built on defense, and during Fisher's tenure somehow our defense only really managed that one decent year. Last year was atrocious....if we're going to excuse that by saying they "gave up", then that's fine.

I'm fine with not trading any players - in this thread I was just pointing out that we do have assets that could get us to the first round. I didn't come in here intending to argue with someone over whether or not we SHOULD trade those assets - just that we have them. Hopefully McVay can get the most out of all our players.

 

[DaveFan'51]

Nah. IMO, we're fine where we are.

Completely agree!! We're fine! Especially IF we can nail a Couple of "Good Ones" in the FA Market!!opcorn::heh::shades: