Mike Karney Q and A

[Faceplant]

Players don't quit on the field for even the worst coaches in today's NFL ,,, that would be career suicide. Game tape does not lie, and every player knows that EVERY snap they are involved in will be analyzed by their potential future employer.

Saying that the players "didn't quit on the field" for Spags is really misleading ... players don't quit on the field nowadays because they want to continue to receive NFL paydays . That's the true motivation.

Totally agree. The players that "quit" on Linny did not quit at all, they were vocal against his style of coaching but never quit. Don't forget, that was a team full of former pro bowlers who had had success in the league and were watching a once proud organization come off the tracks. They saw right through Linny's BS. The players we have on THIS roster have not proven much of anything for the most part, and therefore will be less likely to call out a HC, or any coach for that matter. Don't confuse that with respect for the HC......

 

[Anonymous]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

 

[Anonymous]

Players don't quit on the field for even the worst coaches in today's NFL ,,, that would be career suicide. Game tape does not lie, and every player knows that EVERY snap they are involved in will be analyzed by their potential future employer.

Saying that the players "didn't quit on the field" for Spags is really misleading ... players don't quit on the field nowadays because they want to continue to receive NFL paydays . That's the true motivation.

Totally agree. The players that "quit" on Linny did not quit at all, they were vocal against his style of coaching but never quit. Don't forget, that was a team full of former pro bowlers who had had success in the league and were watching a once proud organization come off the tracks. They saw right through Linny's BS. The players we have on THIS roster have not proven much of anything for the most part, and therefore will be less likely to call out a HC, or any coach for that matter. Don't confuse that with respect for the HC......

Well said. I agree with both of you.

 

[Anonymous]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

We knew exactly how the team felt about Linehan and there was no ambiguity, no long dissertations qualifying everything. Even the one guy who defended Linehan (Jackson) acknowledges he wasn't popular.

And his team openly and visibly quit on him.

None of that is true in this case. Try to inflate the possibility out of nothing? Not going to get anywhere.

Players have a thousand ways to let it be known how they felt about a coach when he's canned. They did it with Linehan.

So far here all we have is Karney and how he personally sees things.

I doubt many Rams will speak up on his behalf since he does not have a single good word to say about any of them, except Jackson.

 

[Faceplant]

Personally, I don't give a rats arse if the players love a coach or not. Hell, our players signed a friggin PETITION to keep Haslett. Wins and losses are all that counts. Not sure I would even WANT a coach that is universally loved by all players/fans. I want a coach who is going to hold people accountable for their play on the field. I feel we have that now with Fisher. Not sure that was the case (as much) with the previous regimes.....

 

[Anonymous]

Players don't quit on the field for even the worst coaches in today's NFL ,,, that would be career suicide. Game tape does not lie, and every player knows that EVERY snap they are involved in will be analyzed by their potential future employer.

Saying that the players "didn't quit on the field" for Spags is really misleading ... players don't quit on the field nowadays because they want to continue to receive NFL paydays . That's the true motivation.

Totally agree. The players that "quit" on Linny did not quit at all, they were vocal against his style of coaching but never quit. Don't forget, that was a team full of former pro bowlers who had had success in the league and were watching a once proud organization come off the tracks. They saw right through Linny's BS. The players we have on THIS roster have not proven much of anything for the most part, and therefore will be less likely to call out a HC, or any coach for that matter. Don't confuse that with respect for the HC......

Yeah they most visibly did quit on Linehan. There's no quotation marks about it. It's not "quit" it's quit. It was open and obvious.

Replay the Buffalo game, 2008, if you doubt me.

 

[Faceplant]

Players don't quit on the field for even the worst coaches in today's NFL ,,, that would be career suicide. Game tape does not lie, and every player knows that EVERY snap they are involved in will be analyzed by their potential future employer.

Saying that the players "didn't quit on the field" for Spags is really misleading ... players don't quit on the field nowadays because they want to continue to receive NFL paydays . That's the true motivation.

Totally agree. The players that "quit" on Linny did not quit at all, they were vocal against his style of coaching but never quit. Don't forget, that was a team full of former pro bowlers who had had success in the league and were watching a once proud organization come off the tracks. They saw right through Linny's BS. The players we have on THIS roster have not proven much of anything for the most part, and therefore will be less likely to call out a HC, or any coach for that matter. Don't confuse that with respect for the HC......

Yeah they most visibly did quit on Linehan. There's no quotation marks about it. It's not "quit" it's quit. It was open and obvious.

Replay the Buffalo game, 2008, if you doubt me.

Well if that is the case, those players should be held to blame...PERIOD. You can blame the coach all you want, but I put that squarely on the player. ANYONE who "quits" at this level of their profession should be purged ASAP.

 

[Stranger]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

We knew exactly how the team felt about Linehan and there was no ambiguity, no long dissertations qualifying everything. Even the one guy who defended Linehan (Jackson) acknowledges he wasn't popular.

And his team openly and visibly quit on him.

None of that is true in this case. Try to inflate the possibility out of nothing? Not going to get anywhere.

Players have a thousand ways to let it be known how they felt about a coach when he's canned. They did it with Linehan.

So far here all we have is Karney and how he personally sees things.

I doubt many Rams will speak up on his behalf since he does not have a single good word to say about any of them, except Jackson.

Perhaps the testimony of Todd Hewitt, the former 30+ year Rams employee and equipment manager, is not so far off base?

Anyway, I'm going to guess we'll hear from other retired players who served under Spags before this is over. There's got to be others that can be interviewed, who are no longer under the threat of being ostracized by the league.

 

[-X-]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

We knew exactly how the team felt about Linehan and there was no ambiguity, no long dissertations qualifying everything. Even the one guy who defended Linehan (Jackson) acknowledges he wasn't popular.

And his team openly and visibly quit on him.

None of that is true in this case. Try to inflate the possibility out of nothing? Not going to get anywhere.

Players have a thousand ways to let it be known how they felt about a coach when he's canned. They did it with Linehan.

So far here all we have is Karney and how he personally sees things.

I doubt many Rams will speak up on his behalf since he does not have a single good word to say about any of them, except Jackson.

Perhaps the testimony of Todd Hewitt, the former 30+ year Rams employee and equipment manager, is not so far off base?

Anyway, I'm going to guess we'll hear from other retired players who served under Spags before this is over. There's got to be others that can be interviewed, who are no longer under the threat of being ostracized by the league.

It's possible others may come forward at some point in time, but what does it really matter? The general consensus after Spags was fired (from the players still on the team) was that he was a good guy, and many of the players loved him. Many more came over from other teams just to be with him too. Was he perfect? Nah. Did he make some mistakes, or maybe run too tight a ship? Yeah, probably. But I, personally, see no point in trying to throw the guy under the bus and then back up over him. What's done is done. I don't think anyone here doubts that the guy did everything he could to try and turn this Franchise around. Conspiracy theories aside, he was committed to forming and shaping this team into a specific mold. At the worst possible time, and under the worst possible circumstances.

It didn't work out. It happens. Karney has his views, other players have theirs. I mean if JL and Mikell have nothing but great things to say, do we summarily discount anything Karney says? Or vice-versa? Nah. It's all varying degrees of perception and personal feelings mixed up into a big potpourri of who gives a shit.

 

[superfan24]

It'll be interesting to say if Fisher does to the o-line what MK said he would. JS not caring like Karney said is very damning. How does karney know that the o-line wasn't yelled at and corrected or just coddled as he inferred. Did Sjax tell him this???? Definitely seems to be shooting for a broadcasting position with these eye-opening quotes.

 

[Anonymous]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

We knew exactly how the team felt about Linehan and there was no ambiguity, no long dissertations qualifying everything. Even the one guy who defended Linehan (Jackson) acknowledges he wasn't popular.

And his team openly and visibly quit on him.

None of that is true in this case. Try to inflate the possibility out of nothing? Not going to get anywhere.

Players have a thousand ways to let it be known how they felt about a coach when he's canned. They did it with Linehan.

So far here all we have is Karney and how he personally sees things.

I doubt many Rams will speak up on his behalf since he does not have a single good word to say about any of them, except Jackson.

Perhaps the testimony of Todd Hewitt, the former 30+ year Rams employee and equipment manager, is not so far off base?

Anyway, I'm going to guess we'll hear from other retired players who served under Spags before this is over. There's got to be others that can be interviewed, who are no longer under the threat of being ostracized by the league.

Oh, yes, the super-entitled Georgia pet. Sorry but he is so clearly and personally bitter that nothing he says interests me. Moreover--he did not say a single thing that is even remotely like the stuff Karney says.

X is right. There's a high number of testimonials from other players that show the guy was respected by his team.

A team does not play as hard as this one did in the later hopeless games of 2011 if it has quit on a coach it doesn't respect. I've seen so many teams roll over and die--including the Linehan Rams.

And besides even if he WERE what Karney is trying to paint, guys like that can be great head coaches--see Coughlin, for example.

And this "ostracized by the league" thing is silly. Nothing like that happens. In fact, when Linehan benched Bulger, Jackson blasted him on the radio. Rams were not the least bit nervous about making it clear they thought Linehan was in over his head. For the entire time I've followed football, I have seen fired coaches get skewered by ex-players if the coach wasn't liked--and there are plenty of ways to do it, including talking to reporters off the record.

When Linehan was fired we knew exactly how the team felt. There was no mystery. There was no shadowy period waiting for the timid to come forward in spite of the League As Big Brother menace.

 

[Anonymous]

My bet is, the people who most strongly objected to Spags before he was fired will try to make it out as if MK is representative of a general team view. Meanwhile, everyone else will range from skeptical to "well there might be some truth in some of that." Many will simply point out that one guy dumping on a coach does not mean that the TEAM felt that way, and moreover there's no evidence they do.

The always present aspersions aside....all anyone has said is that time will tell. It may just be MKs view in the future or when others are more removed from the game similar info may said. As for the "TEAM felt that way".....how many players constitutes that? 100%? 50.1%? 10%? Total players on roster or of those giving interviews? Nebulous term at best especially when it requires an honest appraisal in public. It's why the suggestion box was invented.

We knew exactly how the team felt about Linehan and there was no ambiguity, no long dissertations qualifying everything. Even the one guy who defended Linehan (Jackson) acknowledges he wasn't popular.

And his team openly and visibly quit on him.

None of that is true in this case. Try to inflate the possibility out of nothing? Not going to get anywhere.

Players have a thousand ways to let it be known how they felt about a coach when he's canned. They did it with Linehan.

So far here all we have is Karney and how he personally sees things.

I doubt many Rams will speak up on his behalf since he does not have a single good word to say about any of them, except Jackson.

Perhaps the testimony of Todd Hewitt, the former 30+ year Rams employee and equipment manager, is not so far off base?

Anyway, I'm going to guess we'll hear from other retired players who served under Spags before this is over. There's got to be others that can be interviewed, who are no longer under the threat of being ostracized by the league.

And this "ostracized by the league" thing is silly. Nothing like that happens.

Tell that to Mike Martz.

 

[Stranger]

It's possible others may come forward at some point in time, but what does it really matter? The general consensus after Spags was fired (from the players still on the team) was that he was a good guy, and many of the players loved him. Many more came over from other teams just to be with him too. Was he perfect? Nah. Did he make some mistakes, or maybe run too tight a ship? Yeah, probably. But I, personally, see no point in trying to throw the guy under the bus and then back up over him. What's done is done. I don't think anyone here doubts that the guy did everything he could to try and turn this Franchise around. Conspiracy theories aside, he was committed to forming and shaping this team into a specific mold. At the worst possible time, and under the worst possible circumstances.

It didn't work out. It happens. Karney has his views, other players have theirs. I mean if JL and Mikell have nothing but great things to say, do we summarily discount anything Karney says? Or vice-versa? Nah. It's all varying degrees of perception and personal feelings mixed up into a big potpourri of who gives a shit.

Wow, there's that "phrase" again. What does it even mean? Seems as it comes into play when someone has a different view or perspective than the prevailing view proposed by the carefully orchestrated PR - media industry.

Oh, yes, the super-entitled Georgia pet. Sorry but he is so clearly and personally bitter that nothing he says interests me. Moreover--he did not say a single thing that is even remotely like the stuff Karney says.

X is right. There's a high number of testimonials from other players that show the guy was respected by his team.

A team does not play as hard as this one did in the later hopeless games of 2011 if it has quit on a coach it doesn't respect. I've seen so many teams roll over and die--including the Linehan Rams.

And besides even if he WERE what Karney is trying to paint, guys like that can be great head coaches--see Coughlin, for example.

And this "ostracized by the league" thing is silly. Nothing like that happens. In fact, when Linehan benched Bulger, Jackson blasted him on the radio. Rams were not the least bit nervous about making it clear they thought Linehan was in over his head. For the entire time I've followed football, I have seen fired coaches get skewered by ex-players if the coach wasn't liked--and there are plenty of ways to do it, including talking to reporters off the record.

When Linehan was fired we knew exactly how the team felt. There was no mystery. There was no shadowy period waiting for the timid to come forward in spite of the League As Big Brother menace.

I like Hewitt, I liked his dad. I recall seeing both his dad and his young son on the sidelines at the Coliseum growing up. He was pre-Georgia, he was a product of Carroll Rosenbloom, so I don't think that the Georgia-pet thing stands up.

Anyway, I've got no reason to doubt what Hewitt says, and I ALSO have no reason to doubt what MK is saying now. I look at all the data-points, including comments from those that praise Spags. I don't think that the comments are necessarily mutually exclusive, and think all the perspectives can be accurate.

And this "ostracized by the league" thing is silly. Nothing like that happens.

Tell that to Mike Martz.

Squeaky hit the nail on the head on this one. I'm someone who knows quite a bit about confronting American corporate power with information that's detrimental, and let me tell you that retaliation is swift, underhanded, and total. So, to deny ostracization as a tool is to be in utter denial of the realities of power in America.

 

[Anonymous]

I like Hewitt, I liked his dad. I recall seeing both his dad and his young son on the sidelines at the Coliseum growing up. He was pre-Georgia, he was a product of Carroll Rosenbloom, so I don't think that the Georgia-pet thing stands up.

Anyway, I've got no reason to doubt what Hewitt says, and I ALSO have no reason to doubt what MK is saying now. I look at all the data-points, including comments from those that praise Spags.

My view might surprise you in its direct simple bluntness. But when a guy shows as little class as Todd did, I don't take him seriously. You liking him, yeah, probably clouds your view of this, but it is meaningless to me. I base what I say on his actions. First, it is irrelevant who hired him--he was kept because he was a Georgia pet. It is no coincidence that he did not survive the next regime after Georgia passed. Every word I read by him has this stunning sense of entitlement I just found completely off-putting. None of his accusations--as trivial as they were---line up with anything MK says--he just lashed out. He got press for it because he was friends with reporters, which was the main reason he was let go--he was a source of leaks. After Spags made it clear he frowned on that, he was still a source of leaks.

Personally, I hope the Rams have an equipment guy now who does his job exclusively, instead of courting fans and reporters and trying to act like he had his own little sub-franchise.

 

[Stranger]

I like Hewitt, I liked his dad. I recall seeing both his dad and his young son on the sidelines at the Coliseum growing up. He was pre-Georgia, he was a product of Carroll Rosenbloom, so I don't think that the Georgia-pet thing stands up.

Anyway, I've got no reason to doubt what Hewitt says, and I ALSO have no reason to doubt what MK is saying now. I look at all the data-points, including comments from those that praise Spags.

My view might surprise you in its direct simple bluntness. But when a guy shows as little class as Todd did, I don't take him seriously. You liking him, yeah, probably clouds your view of this, but it is meaningless to me. I base what I say on his actions. First, it is irrelevant who hired him--he was kept because he was a Georgia pet. It is no coincidence that he did not survive the next regime after Georgia passed. Every word I read by him has this stunning sense of entitlement I just found completely off-putting. None of his accusations--as trivial as they were---line up with anything MK says--he just lashed out. He got press for it because he was friends with reporters, which was the main reason he was let go--he was a source of leaks. After Spags made it clear he frowned on that, he was still a source of leaks.

Personally, I hope the Rams have an equipment guy now who does his job exclusively, instead of courting fans and reporters and trying to act like he had his own little sub-franchise.

Todd's views are consistent with MK's, as they both depict a HC who is insecure and controlling.

Given the way Spags:
(1) dealt with the media, holding on to information very tightly, and;
(2) removed most GSOT artifacts from Rams park, indicating either a fear of being compared to past successes, and/or attempting to erase memories of past regimes in an attempt to garner greater loyalty to the current regime, and:
(3) limited and/or eliminated access to Rams park by previous personnel or coaches, again showing a possibly fear of loyalty to any other figure-heads that represented past regimes who could cast credible opinions on the current regime...

I'd say that there just might be merit in both Hewitt's and MK's perspectives. So yeah, I'm not going to be so quick to just trash them or their insights, as the data-points appear to have merit, especially given what else I can see from my public vantage point.

 

[Ram Quixote]

And this "ostracized by the league" thing is silly. Nothing like that happens.

Tell that to Mike Martz.

Squeaky hit the nail on the head on this one. I'm someone who knows quite a bit about confronting American corporate power with information that's detrimental, and let me tell you that retaliation is swift, underhanded, and total. So, to deny ostracization as a tool is to be in utter denial of the realities of power in America.

But we're talking about players, not coaches. Coaches are directly responsible to the owners/FO, and as such are not given any leeway. Martz attacked his employer, and that doesn't get forgotten. That he found 3 more OC jobs speaks to his reputation with GSOT.

Players who may have been guilty of not performing to their fullest, on the other hand, can sign with a new team and thrive in a new system (Lloyd), redeeming their reputation through talent and new effort.

Or, in Karney's case, they can draw attention to themselves because of their outspoken behavior and get a job in the media.

 

[brokeu91]

Players don't quit on the field for even the worst coaches in today's NFL ,,, that would be career suicide. Game tape does not lie, and every player knows that EVERY snap they are involved in will be analyzed by their potential future employer.

Saying that the players "didn't quit on the field" for Spags is really misleading ... players don't quit on the field nowadays because they want to continue to receive NFL paydays . That's the true motivation.

Totally agree. The players that "quit" on Linny did not quit at all, they were vocal against his style of coaching but never quit. Don't forget, that was a team full of former pro bowlers who had had success in the league and were watching a once proud organization come off the tracks. They saw right through Linny's BS. The players we have on THIS roster have not proven much of anything for the most part, and therefore will be less likely to call out a HC, or any coach for that matter. Don't confuse that with respect for the HC......

Yeah they most visibly did quit on Linehan. There's no quotation marks about it. It's not "quit" it's quit. It was open and obvious.

Replay the Buffalo game, 2008, if you doubt me.

I'm with ZN on this one. That team completely quit on Linehan. In fact, I think they pretty much quit on him in 2007 after Linehan criticized Bruce and wouldn't take any advice from the players. But, I never did see the Rams quit on Spags.

 

[-X-]

It's possible others may come forward at some point in time, but what does it really matter? The general consensus after Spags was fired (from the players still on the team) was that he was a good guy, and many of the players loved him. Many more came over from other teams just to be with him too. Was he perfect? Nah. Did he make some mistakes, or maybe run too tight a ship? Yeah, probably. But I, personally, see no point in trying to throw the guy under the bus and then back up over him. What's done is done. I don't think anyone here doubts that the guy did everything he could to try and turn this Franchise around. Conspiracy theories aside, he was committed to forming and shaping this team into a specific mold. At the worst possible time, and under the worst possible circumstances.

It didn't work out. It happens. Karney has his views, other players have theirs. I mean if JL and Mikell have nothing but great things to say, do we summarily discount anything Karney says? Or vice-versa? Nah. It's all varying degrees of perception and personal feelings mixed up into a big potpourri of who gives a shit.

Wow, there's that "phrase" again. What does it even mean? Seems as it comes into play when someone has a different view or perspective than the prevailing view proposed by the carefully orchestrated PR - media industry.

Yeah, I didn't mean it that way. I meant conspiracy theories in the broadest sense. As in, what Karney says, or what Spags did, or any other mind-reading proclamation that has no basis in truth. Only speculation. See, we don't *know* if Karney is jilted and trying to exact revenge, or *why* Spags did some of the things he did to alienate people. We can only speculate because we're not occupying their minds. So I eliminated those things from my retort and only focused on what we *know* to be the case. He tried, and he came up short. There are reasons, and there are assumptions.

I still don't see the point in trying to muddy the waters with things we don't *know* in an attempt to further discredit the efforts put forth by the previous regime. Lots of coaches do a lot of goofy things. None of them (and this is fact) do them to purposefully sabotage their own futures.

I think we should look forward now. I'm over Spagnuolo, and I'm WAY over Linehan.

 

[Selassie I]

Ask future HOFer Randy Moss if quiting on coaches or taking plays off has an effect on an NFL player's earning potential.


I'm totally over Spags and Loserhan too. In fact, I'd like to find a way to erase those sickening memories from my mind.

 

[-X-]

Ask future HOFer Randy Moss if quiting on coaches or taking plays off has an effect on an NFL player's earning potential.


I'm totally over Spags and Loserhan too. In fact, I'd like to find a way to erase those sickening memories from my mind.