McVay vs Goff

[TexasRam]

There has been a “McVay did Goff wrong” narrative going around and McVay himself has said that he could have handled Goff’s departure better.

Obscured by this is the fact that, in six playoff games, Goff had a 57.4 completion percentage, averaged 216 yards per game, and had a passer rating of 79.9.

In his Super Bowl run of four games, Stafford had a 70.0 completion percentage, 297 yards per game, and a passer rating of 108.4.

Goff is welcome to try to “avenge” that.

Goff in his first and 2nd full years, a Super Bowl with NO Kupp and a gimpy Gurley. Combined with two games in 2020 with an injured hand.
Vs
Stafford- 4 games from a 10+ year vet in a season where he has Kupp and OBJ.

A bit of an unfair comparison.

Iv’e always maintained Stafford overall edges Goff out due to his ability to respond to pressure but there in no Lombardi or elevated stats without MVP Kupp. Outside of this Kupp factor Staffords Career QB rating is the same as Goff and in fact a bit lower then Goff.

Having said that, I hope Goff has a bad Goff game this Sunday

 

[AvengerRam]

Goff in his first and 2nd full years, a Super Bowl with NO Kupp and a gimpy Gurley. Combined with two games in 2020 with an injured hand.
Vs
Stafford- 4 games from a 10+ year vet in a season where he has Kupp and OBJ.

A bit of an unfair comparison.

Iv’e always maintained Stafford overall edges Goff out due to his ability to respond to pressure but there in no Lombardi or elevated stats without MVP Kupp. Outside of this Kupp factor Staffords Career QB rating is the same as Goff and in fact a bit lower then Goff.

Having said that, I hope Goff has a bad Goff game this Sunday

If you’re going to go to that level, you need to factor the lack of much of a running threat in the 2021 playoff run, as well as injuries to Tyler Higbee and OBJ in the Super Bowl.

 

[InfiniteRam]

Goff has few weaknesses. None of them are glaring. One of the smartest passers in the game. He is affected by pressure just like all other quarterbacks.

 

[FaulkSF]

I hope the front 7 practice strips, arm chops, and punching the ball out. That’s a great way to decrease confidence.

 

[RamWoodie]

Goff has few weaknesses. None of them are glaring. One of the smartest passers in the game. He is affected by pressure just like all other quarterbacks.

I will disagree.

- Goff cannot escape pressure with his legs.

- He doesn't handle the blitz as well as the. Top tier QBs.

- He still locks on to his primary WR...he doesn't "look off" well.

Having said that... in his SB against the Pats...I don't fault Goff...I fault McVay because of something McVay had to overcome and in some cases still has to overcome. HE DOESN'T ALWAYS ADJUST WELL.

 

[Ellard80]

Geez dudes, like Stafford doesn't throw INTs under pressure? Matt throws more INTs including those which he isn't under pressure than Goff did while he was a Ram. Funny how time blurs the memory.

Besides that what HC refused to allow his QB to line up until there were only 15 seconds left? Or have you guys forgotten that? Obstensively it was because Jared couldn't read defenses. Well, he reads them just fine in Detroit, doesn't he? You guys ignore how badly McVay treated Goff yet it's all Goff's fault? You ignore all of Stafford's INTs both forced and unforced. You put it down to his gunslinger mentality....how about misreading the defense?

Both guys are elite level QBs on their respective teams. Give credit where it's due and criticism when earned. People seem to put the 2018 SB loss on Goff. But it was simply McVay being outcoached in the same way Sean outcoached the Bengals in LVI.

May both teams play their best football and let the chips fall where they may. May the refs quit padding their bank accounts in this game and call it straight and be a non-factor as they should always be. That is all I ask of this game because in that context the Rams should win this game. Without LaPorta, Goff is at a huge disadvantage. Matt will have Kupp, Nacua, Robinson and Atwell and Williams at RB. The Ram OL is as good or better than Detroit's. If the Rams can run the ball it will be too much for the Lion's defense. It's far more crucial for the Lions to be able to run. That's why the Rams need to come out hot and not let up offensively. I don't think the Lions can win a shootout.

The Ram offense mismatches the Detroit defense. The Rams are built to come from behind if they have too. Without controlling the TOP the Lions will be hurting. It's why Morris can't play soft as he tends to do and allow the opposition to hang around. Morris lacks the killer instinct you want in your DC. He needs to put his play it safe inclinations into the closet and lock the door. He needs to understand his HC interview starts on Sunday. He goes ultra-soft and conservative and I would bet he won't get hired as a HC. Owners like HC with fire in their bellies, with a killer instinct when it comes to winning, something Morris has only shown sporadically.

you love to post "facts" that never are. Stafford's Int as a Ram 2.5% Goff as a Ram 2.3% - basically the same.

 

[Merlin]

If you’re going to go to that level, you need to factor the lack of much of a running threat in the 2021 playoff run, as well as injuries to Tyler Higbee and OBJ in the Super Bowl.

There are few QBs who could have done what Stafford did in that title year, with zero run game. It is a very short list with only all timers on it.

 

[Giles]

It's no secret what JG weakness is, it's pressure particularly pressure up the middle. Hopefully we can pressure him because if we can't the offense is gonna have to be damn near perfect to win.

 

[Giles]

Agreed and this will be the biggest factor in the Rams stopping Goff.

If we try to rush 4 or the occasional 5 with Jones against the Detroit Oline, it's going to be a long day and a bad outcome for the Rams.

I think overall, Raheem has done an excellent job this year with the talent he has.

But this is a game where some unpredictable blitz packages to get the QB's timing off could pay dividens.

Tbh I don't think we have the backend to be able to bring more than 5. Flores tried that in both gms and got torched in both gms.

 

[Giles]

I will disagree.

- Goff cannot escape pressure with his legs.

- He doesn't handle the blitz as well as the. Top tier QBs.

- He still locks on to his primary WR...he doesn't "look off" well.

Having said that... in his SB against the Pats...I don't fault Goff...I fault McVay because of something McVay had to overcome and in some cases still has to overcome. HE DOESN'T ALWAYS ADJUST WEWELL.

I'll have to disagree my guy
1. That's only a weakness if your oline doesn't do its job
2. I couldn't find the overall stats vs the blitz but by just going by what I see I'll say he's top 10 easily vs the blitz. Just last gm Flores blitzed him 26 time and he put up 250+ yards, 2 tds, and a 79 comp%. He's also leading the league in yards vs the blitz. Which is kinda skewed because he gets blitzed alot.
3. No he doesn't, he didn't even do that when he was here. If anything Stafford is the one who locks on to 1 guy hence why he always has that 1 reciever who has way more targets than anyone else.

 

[jjab360]

I'll have to disagree my guy
1. That's only a weakness if your oline doesn't do its job
2. I couldn't find the overall stats vs the blitz but by just going by what I see I'll say he's top 10 easily vs the blitz. Just last gm Flores blitzed him 26 time and he put up 250+ yards, 2 tds, and a 79 comp%. He's also leading the league in yards vs the blitz. Which is kinda skewed because he gets blitzed alot.
3. No he doesn't, he didn't even do that when he was here. If anything Stafford is the one who locks on to 1 guy hence why he always has that 1 reciever who has way more targets than anyone else.

Please stop. Are you even watching the games? You'd be very hard pressed to find a QB in the league who sees the field, looks off defenders, and goes through his progressions as fluidly as Stafford does right now.

Even if his primary receiver has more targets it's not because he "locks on" to them, for example the reason why Kupp got so many more targets than the rest of the team in 2021 was because he excelled at coming open exactly when Stafford reached his progression. Many of his targets came when he was the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th read but he knows how to set defenders up at the right time because he's probably the smartest receiver in the league. And he's passed on what he knows to Puka so it's roughly the same deal. That's the secret to how these guys get so many targets and yet are always so wide open.

I can't speak to his time in Detroit he probably was forcing it to Megatron but that was a long time ago and well... Megatron.

 

[oldnotdead]

you love to post "facts" that never are. Stafford's Int as a Ram 2.5% Goff as a Ram 2.3% - basically the same.

I was referring to how people on this board like to point to Goff's INTs as some sort of validation he's a lesser talent. You simply proved my point. Stafford thows INTs under pressure no less than Goff and the Lions know that. Also, Stafford throws a lot of unforced INTs because he simply misread the defense.

 

[Kupped]

Jared is a fine young man and a QB who can win you a Super Bowl if everything around him is top of the line.

Stafford won a Super Bowl with no run game, his #4 TE & one real WR.

If you don’t understand the qualitative difference between the 2 QBs after 3 years, that’s on you.

 

[fanotodd]

Geez dudes, like Stafford doesn't throw INTs under pressure? Matt throws more INTs including those which he isn't under pressure than Goff did while he was a Ram. Funny how time blurs the memory.

Besides that what HC refused to allow his QB to line up until there were only 15 seconds left? Or have you guys forgotten that? Obstensively it was because Jared couldn't read defenses. Well, he reads them just fine in Detroit, doesn't he? You guys ignore how badly McVay treated Goff yet it's all Goff's fault? You ignore all of Stafford's INTs both forced and unforced. You put it down to his gunslinger mentality....how about misreading the defense?

Both guys are elite level QBs on their respective teams. Give credit where it's due and criticism when earned. People seem to put the 2018 SB loss on Goff. But it was simply McVay being outcoached in the same way Sean outcoached the Bengals in LVI.

May both teams play their best football and let the chips fall where they may. May the refs quit padding their bank accounts in this game and call it straight and be a non-factor as they should always be. That is all I ask of this game because in that context the Rams should win this game. Without LaPorta, Goff is at a huge disadvantage. Matt will have Kupp, Nacua, Robinson and Atwell and Williams at RB. The Ram OL is as good or better than Detroit's. If the Rams can run the ball it will be too much for the Lion's defense. It's far more crucial for the Lions to be able to run. That's why the Rams need to come out hot and not let up offensively. I don't think the Lions can win a shootout.

The Ram offense mismatches the Detroit defense. The Rams are built to come from behind if they have too. Without controlling the TOP the Lions will be hurting. It's why Morris can't play soft as he tends to do and allow the opposition to hang around. Morris lacks the killer instinct you want in your DC. He needs to put his play it safe inclinations into the closet and lock the door. He needs to understand his HC interview starts on Sunday. He goes ultra-soft and conservative and I would bet he won't get hired as a HC. Owners like HC with fire in their bellies, with a killer instinct when it comes to winning, something Morris has only shown sporadically.

I was with you all the way…until the last paragraph.

 

[fanotodd]

Lions OC Ben Johnson is a hot HC candidate again.

He’s knows the Rams are familiar with Goff, so I expect a few surprises in his game plan. He is a creative playcaller.

That’s the danger here. To think they won’t have a couple wrinkles up their sleeves….

 

[Merlin]

I was referring to how people on this board like to point to Goff's INTs as some sort of validation he's a lesser talent. You simply proved my point. Stafford thows INTs under pressure no less than Goff and the Lions know that. Also, Stafford throws a lot of unforced INTs because he simply misread the defense.

Compared to Stafford he is a lesser talent. Stafford has always had a rare arm and still can spin it better than Goff. Stafford sees the field under pressure better than Goff, both pre and post snap. He also is a QB with mastery level control of scheme like an ability to manipulate defenders with his vision.

They're not really comparable. You can hope that Goff gets to that level but it's gonna take time and no telling if he gets to there. Most QBs don't.

Nothing wrong with supporting Goff and still respecting his game and all that. But he is what he is. And he could still beat us Sunday and media and certain fans will overreact to it but he's still going to be a lesser talent to Stafford.

For this game we know Goff's weaknesses. They have always been his ability to see threats pre-snap, how long it takes him to process changes in coverages after play action, and him being intimidated by defenses when he gets knocked around. But he is still dangerous and has a ton of weapons and a strong OL. He will have a strong run game threat. He is going to put up points on our defense but playing the QB comparison game is a losing endeavor for Goff vs Stafford.

 

[dieterbrock]

OK. Simply repeating the same narratives over and over doesn't make them true. McVay/Goff collaboration led to two Pro Bowl seasons from Goff and a Super Bowl appearance. Yet you're still trying to sell that McVay "sabotaged" Goff.

You're wrong.

100%
Goff's career highs in yardage, touchdowns & QB rating all occurred under McVay''s watch. Furthermore, the passing display Goff put on against Minnesota and KC on National TV was some of the finest play ever seen
Sabotage? That was the grade school offense Goff was subjected to in 2016

 

[younghutch]

I love Jared & will root hard for him the rest of the way if they advance.

But...

He has limitations. When things start to unravel with pressure or interceptions, he seems to have a tendency to continue the downward spriral. I haven't seen him "take over" a game and put the team on his shoulders when the chips are down.

Matthew is a different cat altogether. His ability to overcome early adversity and to get the team pointing back in the right direction, midgame, is IMHO one of the biggest traits that attracted McVay initially.

The pass to Kupp vs. TB, the no-look pass in the SB and a multitude of other brilliant throws by Stafford...these are throws that Goff can probably make. However, they are throws that Goff never would have even ATTEMPTED.

I don't have the numbers (and am too lazy to research) but it just FEELS like Stafford has brought the Rams back from early deficits more often than Goff did in his time here...or with his time in Detroit.

 

[gogoat1]

funny thread... glad to see it get back on track.. NOT!!!

then again i was a goff camp ramfan, and still like to see him succede...

just not this week...hell no!!

DESTROY GOFF!!!!!!!!!

go rams

slo

Jared is a fine young man and a QB who can win you a Super Bowl if everything around him is top of the line.

Stafford won a Super Bowl with no run game, his #4 TE & one real WR.

If you don’t understand the qualitative difference between the 2 QBs after 3 years, that’s on you.

Stafford won that game throwing a critical "no look" pass in traffic.
LEGEND !!!
I would not mind if Goff finishes his career as a Ram. But at this point, he is not Stafford.
Then you have Stafford's noted ability to finish games with a arm hanging off and hip blown out. Tough as they come.

 

[majrleaged]

Goff in his first and 2nd full years, a Super Bowl with NO Kupp and a gimpy Gurley. Combined with two games in 2020 with an injured hand.
Vs
Stafford- 4 games from a 10+ year vet in a season where he has Kupp and OBJ.

A bit of an unfair comparison.

Iv’e always maintained Stafford overall edges Goff out due to his ability to respond to pressure but there in no Lombardi or elevated stats without MVP Kupp. Outside of this Kupp factor Staffords Career QB rating is the same as Goff and in fact a bit lower then Goff.

Having said that, I hope Goff has a bad Goff game this Sunday

Any other QB has a game winning drive in SB like Stafford and he would be the MVP. No look and pin point passes. I dont care who the receiver is. If the qb doesnt get him the ball it wont matter. The media still doesnt give him his due. There is always the pat statford in the back of their minds.