Mcvay can also be befuddling!!!

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payote75

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Never thought I'd say this but Steve Young is right. Yes Morris is not good and needs to go but as much as I love Mcvay he also isn't pulling his weight as much as he should. He isn't a player he can't impose his will with a clipboard. He supposed to be a genius see things that others don't mismatches etc. You have got to mix it up then other things will open up. Run yes short passes slants etc. Makes me sad but he seems to be stubborn as a mule and maybe that is a problem that has not been made public but if you constantly do the same shit over and over we all know it's the definition of insanity. What young said about the 3 running plays I echoed the same sentiments that's not playing to win. You were scared to lose.

To me it's not the 3rd and 7 as much as any of those downs you try and get that first don't give me the Stafford toe thing because he kept playing and moving. Lastly for me as a coach you know your defense has been a siv now at that particular moment you want them to win you the game when you full well know your down Fuller and Rapp. I truly believe what I've been saying it's like hot potato between offense and defense no I don't want it you take it etc. The fact Young says we played it like the jaguars is spot on I can't disagree love or hate him he is right.

Still does not excuse the defense at all but if your not working in unison your not going to win. Defense shorthanded you need to win with your offense. Had the defense stayed on tact and Stafford or kupp got hurt then yea your defense has to step up. Team game.



So much of the 49ers’ comeback win over the Rams, a team which had never blown a halftime lead under Sean McVay prior to Sunday — let alone a 17-3 lead at the half — begs the question: how? How did this happen?

How were the 49ers not just able to come back, but to come back again, even after Jimmy Garoppolo’s late interception and a punt with less than two minutes on the clock?

Legendary quarterback Steve Young joined the “Tolbert, Krueger and Brooks” show on Wednesday, as he does every week, to provide his thoughts on all things 49ers, including the comeback. Young took issue with McVay’s decidedly conservative decision-making to end the game, as well as his second-half approach.

Young first credited an “elegant,” purposeful first half that he deemed as planned out with clear intent.

But in the second half, he took aim at a lot of deep dropbacks, saying the Rams should have gone to more of a quick-game offense with Stafford being pressured consistently.

“The second half, you can see that the 49ers are gaining momentum, and you’re going to take the deep drops to try to get it to Odell Beckham Jr. and then Stafford is trying to climb in the pocket and just disappearing,” Young said. “Like the pocket just disappeared, right? The Rams have a short game. They have a game to get out, get people running, get people moving, get it in people’s hands in space.

“Get OBJ to have the ball in space, have we not figured that out in two months? Can we not get Cooper Kupp – he’s tremendous within five, seven yards. Like, find spaces, get moving. I was like what are you guys doing, dropping deep, getting jammed up?”

But what confounded Young the most was the end of the game, and that was without mentioning the Rams failing to use their final timeout to try and get into field goal range.

Los Angeles got the ball back with 1:50 on the clock, with the 49ers holding all three timeouts. What followed, Young said, blew his mind, given that a first down would have ended the game.

“You can’t tell me there’s not an All-Pro, first-round draft choice quarterback, a couple of great receivers and you’re just going to run right into the line three times, make them call their timeouts and punt? That’s what the Jaguars would do or whoever!” Young said. “Are you not going to go win this? Go win it! You’re the Rams! You’re going to win the division! Go win it! So it says a lot to me that they didn’t go win it. What is that? It baffles me.”

After Tom Tolbert suggested that Stafford was being hit consistently and looked shaky in the second half, Young responded, saying that was an indication that McVay lacked faith in Stafford.

“You just basically said it for us,” Young said. “We don’t trust him. We don’t believe. You’ve got a guy that’s played 12 years, has seen all the worst of the worst in the NFL and he can’t put the golden shoes on and go do it? Oh yeah, let’s protect him. What are you doing? Brutal, brutal.”
 

gogoat1

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I need a favor from you photo-shop guys.
What I need is for someone to make up a picture of McVay with a T shirt that reads "Shanahan,s Bitch".
I hear he doubled down on not going for the first down that would have ended the SF game with a win.
Lets see, if you give you offense a chance to win the game with a simple 1st down that is exactly double the odds of giving up and letting your defense give it a shot.
Not a rocker scientist but DOUBLE is a good thing.
What are the stats for the Rams going 3 and out in a game vs possessions ? Pretty good I bet. I would imagine they get at least one 1st down in a series is at least 66%.
Whatever number that is, THAT is the odds of the Rams winning that game at that moment with just the offense.
Please make me a pic, McVay deserves it. Luv ya bro, but you have to get it right.
I am not wrong on this.
 

payote75

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Yea also love the guy but he definitely has made some questionable calls.

You have the ball your in control at least more in control of the outcome you can stick that dagger in.

The motto there was you play to lose which is what we did sadly. On any of those play calls you could of called on play even one first down cuts down the time but the rationale of it is what gets me. If your defense was getting run over should you have been aware in that moment " well we have no safeties both injured our inside guys are weak to begin with so this is huge" but instead we chose to again say no you take it and stop them with depleted secondary.

Again does not absolve the defense at all as they made absolutely no adjustments in the 2bd half but you have the ball you got to go for the throat don't give it to them to dictate the outcome. Still not over it.

As far as Arizona I don't mean to be a Debbie Downer I do feel we have a shot to squeak by them but to see the Packers getting Smith, Alexander, and possibly Bakiari. That would be asking a lot if we should face them or Tampa getting their dude back. Everyone getting people back important people. This is a tough ask man.
 

Ramlife

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I am very proud of the regular season aside from Sundays devastating loss, its a damn shame that it ended this way. I just dont feel like they will recover from the loss. I hate this feeling compared to how i felt when it was 17-0 til now. I actually think i felt worse Sunday than i did when they lost the Super Bowl. I need a pep talk fellas. McVay really needs to realize his mistakes and change them going forward. He makes the same mistakes repeatedly. Smh.
 

FrantikRam

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Man I do not have time but someone had to do it.

Record when the defense had to close the game (either bc the offense left them time or failed to close out the game) - opposing team trailed by one possession or less under two minutes and had the ball:

2017 - 3-0 - Niners, Cowboys, Titans

2018 - 3-0 - Vikings, Seahawks, Chiefs - defense was destroyed in all three games but closed the door and prevented a game tying drive - TWICE against the Chiefs

2019 - 2-0 - Browns, Cardinals

2020 - 3-1 - Cowboys, Bills, Giants, Bucs - only loss to Buffalo which required a sketch DPI on Williams

2021 - 3-0 (before last week) - Colts, Cardinals, Ravens



Cardinals 2021, Cardinals 2019, Browns 2019 and Vikings 2018 were nearly identical to last week - opponent down 7 and with less than optimal time to score. A slew of games teams just needed a FG to tie or win.

McVays record in these instances before Sunday was 14-1, with the one being a play where he said "great job defense".

Some of those games came where the defense wasn't playing well - Vikings and Chiefs come to mind.

But we have Aaron fucking Donald. The Niners defense was destroying our OL all game. It's a no brainer to me still.

If you don't trust your d to close out the game, to me, no point in having Aaron Donald.
 

payote75

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Man I do not have time but someone had to do it.

Record when the defense had to close the game (either bc the offense left them time or failed to close out the game) - opposing team trailed by one possession or less under two minutes and had the ball:

2017 - 3-0 - Niners, Cowboys, Titans

2018 - 3-0 - Vikings, Seahawks, Chiefs - defense was destroyed in all three games but closed the door and prevented a game tying drive - TWICE against the Chiefs

2019 - 2-0 - Browns, Cardinals

2020 - 3-1 - Cowboys, Bills, Giants, Bucs - only loss to Buffalo which required a sketch DPI on Williams

2021 - 3-0 (before last week) - Colts, Cardinals, Ravens



Cardinals 2021, Cardinals 2019, Browns 2019 and Vikings 2018 were nearly identical to last week - opponent down 7 and with less than optimal time to score. A slew of games teams just needed a FG to tie or win.

McVays record in these instances before Sunday was 14-1, with the one being a play where he said "great job defense".

Some of those games came where the defense wasn't playing well - Vikings and Chiefs come to mind.

But we have Aaron fucking Donald. The Niners defense was destroying our OL all game. It's a no brainer to me still.

If you don't trust your d to close out the game, to me, no point in having Aaron Donald.

That's true but you have to know at that point your secondary is totally depleted your vulnerable up the middle when healthy but with no Rapp and Fuller you saw the disarray.

Now had it been last year's defense or had we at least been at full strength it's more acceptable.

You also invested heavily in Stafford and the offense did get you what was supposed to be a game winning td. If that's Rodgers Brady Brees Maholmes Herbert Allen and a bunch of qbs on one of those downs you take your shot.

I have been all over the defense and I undoubtedly want a new defensive coordinator but as much as I love Mcvay he cannot be untouchable even the greats make so mistakes.
 

FarNorth

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Never thought I'd say this but Steve Young is right. Yes Morris is not good and needs to go but as much as I love Mcvay he also isn't pulling his weight as much as he should. He isn't a player he can't impose his will with a clipboard. He supposed to be a genius see things that others don't mismatches etc. You have got to mix it up then other things will open up. Run yes short passes slants etc. Makes me sad but he seems to be stubborn as a mule and maybe that is a problem that has not been made public but if you constantly do the same shit over and over we all know it's the definition of insanity. What young said about the 3 running plays I echoed the same sentiments that's not playing to win. You were scared to lose.

To me it's not the 3rd and 7 as much as any of those downs you try and get that first don't give me the Stafford toe thing because he kept playing and moving. Lastly for me as a coach you know your defense has been a siv now at that particular moment you want them to win you the game when you full well know your down Fuller and Rapp. I truly believe what I've been saying it's like hot potato between offense and defense no I don't want it you take it etc. The fact Young says we played it like the jaguars is spot on I can't disagree love or hate him he is right.

Still does not excuse the defense at all but if your not working in unison your not going to win. Defense shorthanded you need to win with your offense. Had the defense stayed on tact and Stafford or kupp got hurt then yea your defense has to step up. Team game.
Young makes some excellent points which many posters have also called out. Elegant first half. Then second half lack of short passing game, too many deep drops/throws, and failure to go for the critical first down.

The bottom line is that McVay, for all his strengths as a play designer and play caller, sometimes fails to identify and apply the correct strategic approach. Imo this is worth quoting as it comes from one the best winning QBs to play the game:

Young took issue with McVay’s decidedly conservative decision-making to end the game, as well as his second-half approach.​

Young first credited an “elegant,” purposeful first half that he deemed as planned out with clear intent.

But in the second half, he took aim at a lot of deep dropbacks, saying the Rams should have gone to more of a quick-game offense with Stafford being pressured consistently.

“The second half, you can see that the 49ers are gaining momentum, and you’re going to take the deep drops to try to get it to Odell Beckham Jr. and then Stafford is trying to climb in the pocket and just disappearing,” Young said. “Like the pocket just disappeared, right? The Rams have a short game. They have a game to get out, get people running, get people moving, get it in people’s hands in space.​

“Get OBJ to have the ball in space, have we not figured that out in two months? Can we not get Cooper Kupp – he’s tremendous within five, seven yards. Like, find spaces, get moving. I was like what are you guys doing, dropping deep, getting jammed up?”

But what confounded Young the most was the end of the game, and that was without mentioning the Rams failing to use their final timeout to try and get into field goal range.

Los Angeles got the ball back with 1:50 on the clock, with the 49ers holding all three timeouts. What followed, Young said, blew his mind, given that a first down would have ended the game.​
You can’t tell me there’s not an All-Pro, first-round draft choice quarterback, a couple of great receivers and you’re just going to run right into the line three times, make them call their timeouts and punt? That’s what the Jaguars would do or whoever!” Young said. “Are you not going to go win this? Go win it! You’re the Rams! You’re going to win the division! Go win it! So it says a lot to me that they didn’t go win it. What is that? It baffles me.”
 

FrantikRam

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That's true but you have to know at that point your secondary is totally depleted your vulnerable up the middle when healthy but with no Rapp and Fuller you saw the disarray.

Now had it been last year's defense or had we at least been at full strength it's more acceptable.

You also invested heavily in Stafford and the offense did get you what was supposed to be a game winning td. If that's Rodgers Brady Brees Maholmes Herbert Allen and a bunch of qbs on one of those downs you take your shot.

I have been all over the defense and I undoubtedly want a new defensive coordinator but as much as I love Mcvay he cannot be untouchable even the greats make so mistakes.



In 2018, Talib was out and our secondary was in MUCH worse shape than what it is now. Yet we stopped the MVP twice.

We also three and outed the Niners on the possession prior.

We've invested more heavily in our defense than our offense, even factoring in Stafford. They're the more talented unit.
 

payote75

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In 2018, Talib was out and our secondary was in MUCH worse shape than what it is now. Yet we stopped the MVP twice.

We also three and outed the Niners on the possession prior.

We've invested more heavily in our defense than our offense, even factoring in Stafford. They're the more talented unit.

I agree in that aspect but right as you are and as much as I think Morris is not the answer. Those injuries took place in the midst of the dog fight but in fairness the defense did do its job when miller sacked Jimbo that should have ended the game.

I said multiple times I do not at all absolve the defense but once they made the stop it was up to the offense to end it even one first down could have changed everything. You have to be aware at that point our safeties are gone Reeder is awful the whole middle will be available in chunks and it was. Even if the defense was full strength they were getting abused but in fairness made that stop to put them out there again 45 seconds later it's still asking a lot.

Your right though the defense is by far the more talented unit but it takes a big hit with Morris running it.
 

Flint

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The Rams only had one drive of consequence in the second half, if they had managed a field goal drive might that have been enough? Maybe. You know who didn’t have a single target while the game is slipping away in the third quarter? That’s right, mister triple crown. Stafford fixates on Kupp almost to a fault, sometimes ignoring open guys, but now, with the game slipping away they can’t figure how to get him open. I don’t get it. And how many picks have we seen on deep balls to OBJ? Do we need an intervention, why do we continue to throw this?
 

Rambitious1

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Never thought I'd say this but Steve Young is right. Yes Morris is not good and needs to go but as much as I love Mcvay he also isn't pulling his weight as much as he should. He isn't a player he can't impose his will with a clipboard. He supposed to be a genius see things that others don't mismatches etc. You have got to mix it up then other things will open up. Run yes short passes slants etc. Makes me sad but he seems to be stubborn as a mule and maybe that is a problem that has not been made public but if you constantly do the same shit over and over we all know it's the definition of insanity. What young said about the 3 running plays I echoed the same sentiments that's not playing to win. You were scared to lose.

To me it's not the 3rd and 7 as much as any of those downs you try and get that first don't give me the Stafford toe thing because he kept playing and moving. Lastly for me as a coach you know your defense has been a siv now at that particular moment you want them to win you the game when you full well know your down Fuller and Rapp. I truly believe what I've been saying it's like hot potato between offense and defense no I don't want it you take it etc. The fact Young says we played it like the jaguars is spot on I can't disagree love or hate him he is right.

Still does not excuse the defense at all but if your not working in unison your not going to win. Defense shorthanded you need to win with your offense. Had the defense stayed on tact and Stafford or kupp got hurt then yea your defense has to step up. Team game.
That link is dead. It does not work.

MOD EDIT: Link fixed
 

Rambitious1

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Never thought I'd say this but Steve Young is right. Yes Morris is not good and needs to go but as much as I love Mcvay he also isn't pulling his weight as much as he should. He isn't a player he can't impose his will with a clipboard. He supposed to be a genius see things that others don't mismatches etc. You have got to mix it up then other things will open up. Run yes short passes slants etc. Makes me sad but he seems to be stubborn as a mule and maybe that is a problem that has not been made public but if you constantly do the same shit over and over we all know it's the definition of insanity. What young said about the 3 running plays I echoed the same sentiments that's not playing to win. You were scared to lose.

To me it's not the 3rd and 7 as much as any of those downs you try and get that first don't give me the Stafford toe thing because he kept playing and moving. Lastly for me as a coach you know your defense has been a siv now at that particular moment you want them to win you the game when you full well know your down Fuller and Rapp. I truly believe what I've been saying it's like hot potato between offense and defense no I don't want it you take it etc. The fact Young says we played it like the jaguars is spot on I can't disagree love or hate him he is right.

Still does not excuse the defense at all but if your not working in unison your not going to win. Defense shorthanded you need to win with your offense. Had the defense stayed on tact and Stafford or kupp got hurt then yea your defense has to step up. Team game.
I looked around and found the page with the interview.
 

gogoat1

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W
Man I do not have time but someone had to do it.

Record when the defense had to close the game (either bc the offense left them time or failed to close out the game) - opposing team trailed by one possession or less under two minutes and had the ball:

2017 - 3-0 - Niners, Cowboys, Titans

2018 - 3-0 - Vikings, Seahawks, Chiefs - defense was destroyed in all three games but closed the door and prevented a game tying drive - TWICE against the Chiefs

2019 - 2-0 - Browns, Cardinals

2020 - 3-1 - Cowboys, Bills, Giants, Bucs - only loss to Buffalo which required a sketch DPI on Williams

2021 - 3-0 (before last week) - Colts, Cardinals, Ravens



Cardinals 2021, Cardinals 2019, Browns 2019 and Vikings 2018 were nearly identical to last week - opponent down 7 and with less than optimal time to score. A slew of games teams just needed a FG to tie or win.

McVays record in these instances before Sunday was 14-1, with the one being a play where he said "great job defense".

Some of those games came where the defense wasn't playing well - Vikings and Chiefs come to mind.

But we have Aaron fucking Donald. The Niners defense was destroying our OL all game. It's a no brainer to me still.

If you don't trust your d to close out the game, to me, no point in having Aaron Donald.
What ? Donald ? Who cares. He is just one great player. All time great, but actually it means nothing.
Common Sense, common freaking sense DICTATES THINGS.
2 chances are better than one chance. Freak plays can and do happen. I did not think for one second J. Ghonareha was not going to complete some passes.
They are TOUGHER than us. Their offense vs our defense. They blast it down our throats and complete plenty of passes.
So, here is what you do, on a 5 game LOOSING STREAK !
You force the win when you have the chance. When it is in your control, TAKE IT !!
McVay choked. He choked in the Super Bowl too. All he had to do was come out in the 2nd half with 2 TEs, hurry up, something. He stayed in 11 until it was too late.
I will tell you what, Belicheat would have had Brady complete a 10+ yard pass and walk out a winner. Its common sense.
 

Gandalf

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Man I do not have time but someone had to do it.

Record when the defense had to close the game (either bc the offense left them time or failed to close out the game) - opposing team trailed by one possession or less under two minutes and had the ball:

2017 - 3-0 - Niners, Cowboys, Titans

2018 - 3-0 - Vikings, Seahawks, Chiefs - defense was destroyed in all three games but closed the door and prevented a game tying drive - TWICE against the Chiefs

2019 - 2-0 - Browns, Cardinals

2020 - 3-1 - Cowboys, Bills, Giants, Bucs - only loss to Buffalo which required a sketch DPI on Williams

2021 - 3-0 (before last week) - Colts, Cardinals, Ravens



Cardinals 2021, Cardinals 2019, Browns 2019 and Vikings 2018 were nearly identical to last week - opponent down 7 and with less than optimal time to score. A slew of games teams just needed a FG to tie or win.

McVays record in these instances before Sunday was 14-1, with the one being a play where he said "great job defense".

Some of those games came where the defense wasn't playing well - Vikings and Chiefs come to mind.

But we have Aaron fucking Donald. The Niners defense was destroying our OL all game. It's a no brainer to me still.

If you don't trust your d to close out the game, to me, no point in having Aaron Donald.
That's all true and a good point, but if you can't trust your offense to get a first down to ice the game, why trade for Matt Stafford?
Coach played scared, should have played for the kill.
 

Steve808

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That's all true and a good point, but if you can't trust your offense to get a first down to ice the game, why trade for Matt Stafford?
Coach played scared, should have played for the kill.
I was okay running the ball at that point in the game but a play action on one of the downs would have been okay with Stafford eating the sack unless someone was wide open.

That said, I was also puzzled that we completely abandoned any chance to win the game in regulation by letting the clock run out. I know we took a sack but with close to 20 seconds, why not toss one up? Maybe we get a PI or something that gets in range.
 

jjab360

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I need a favor from you photo-shop guys.
What I need is for someone to make up a picture of McVay with a T shirt that reads "Shanahan,s Bitch".
I hear he doubled down on not going for the first down that would have ended the SF game with a win.
Lets see, if you give you offense a chance to win the game with a simple 1st down that is exactly double the odds of giving up and letting your defense give it a shot.
Not a rocker scientist but DOUBLE is a good thing.
What are the stats for the Rams going 3 and out in a game vs possessions ? Pretty good I bet. I would imagine they get at least one 1st down in a series is at least 66%.
Whatever number that is, THAT is the odds of the Rams winning that game at that moment with just the offense.
Please make me a pic, McVay deserves it. Luv ya bro, but you have to get it right.
I am not wrong on this.
Why would anyone other than a 49ers troll photoshop that?