Let's talk about Defensive End for a moment

[jrry32]

I love CL but I think it's time. He's making too much money right now. He's struggled to stay healthy and not been very effective while on the field the past couple of years. Bring Hayes back and sign a FA pass rusher to rotate with Hayes like Vinny Curry.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Painful thread....replacing a guy like CLong opens a whole nuther can of worms....I like CLong....don't know what's his problem...but he was getting manhandled every opportunity I happen to watch him. He can't be 100%...and he can't stay 100%...Damn shame...

I have dreamed of Joey Bosa in a Rams uni:mrburnsevil::icare:.... I gotta a lil Fish in me.... LOL!!!!!

 

[ramfan46]

It's an easy decision for me to cut Chris Long at this point. He has no burst off the ball anymore IMO. I'd shock some and cut JL55 too. He's a liability in the middle of the field on passing plays and his run D is average to poor IMO. I'd give Hager a look in the middle as soon as he could make the calls and shifts.

 

[gabriel18]

It's an easy decision for me to cut Chris Long at this point. He has no burst off the ball anymore IMO. I'd shock some and cut JL55 too. He's a liability in the middle of the field on passing plays and his run D is average to poor IMO. I'd give Hager a look in the middle as soon as he could make the calls and shifts.

Agreed on JL. He looks like he is in slow motion out there . I like both of them , but it's time to move on

 

[BonifayRam]

When having discussions here on our Rams DE's some things I need to remind myself is:

#1-This current Rams team #1 position in terms of spent Cap $$$ is on our DE's where this season Rams paid out close to 37 million. The number #2 position is at TE where the Cap $$ spent was just under 14 million. Big Big difference. The #3 is @ DT where the 3 DT's cost us approx 10 million.

We I review the prospective 2016 NFL draft prospects..... what becomes very clear fast is the unbelievable highly unusual number very talented First round potential 43 defensive linemen. I see over a dozen premium talents. 6 DE's & 6 DT's. I can not recall seeing this lineup in a long long time. In the past what we I have seen a ton of 34 DE/OLB tweeners & 34 DT's. Strange!

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/DE
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/2016/DT

#2- The draft is a great cheap way to balance your cap $$ spread sheet. Our team could help themselves in cap savings if they could replace these high cost veteran DL'ers with some very cheap youthful talented prospects. This upcoming 2016 draft is sure to materialize many first round DL'ers prospects to drop to the 2nd round where the Rams have two upper tier draft picks.

Bottom line here appears to be the perfect time to get another great young pass rusher (i.e. Aaron Donald) in here to take the place of those expensive 30 plus yrs old Long-Hayes-Sims. To go with Quinn, Westbrooks & Longacre!

 

[thirteen28]

It's an easy decision for me to cut Chris Long at this point. He has no burst off the ball anymore IMO. I'd shock some and cut JL55 too. He's a liability in the middle of the field on passing plays and his run D is average to poor IMO. I'd give Hager a look in the middle as soon as he could make the calls and shifts.

It would never be an easy decision for me. I agree with those who are making the argument of his cap hit relative to his impact; their logic is sound. And in the end, I think they are right. But cutting a guy like CLong will always be painful, even if it's the right thing to do long term. It's like putting a sick dog to sleep, it may be the best thing to do, but you still hate to do it.

 

[jrry32]

It's an easy decision for me to cut Chris Long at this point. He has no burst off the ball anymore IMO. I'd shock some and cut JL55 too. He's a liability in the middle of the field on passing plays and his run D is average to poor IMO. I'd give Hager a look in the middle as soon as he could make the calls and shifts.

You can't cut both guys in one off-season. You're losing too much leadership and there's no proof that Hager can do the job. I'm all for finding Laurinaitis's heir this off-season but he needs to be here for at least one more season.

 

[blackbart]

You can't cut both guys in one off-season. You're losing too much leadership and there's no proof that Hager can do the job. I'm all for finding Laurinaitis's heir this off-season but he needs to be here for at least one more season.

I agree and when it happens I'm looking for the next can't miss 10 plug and play stud not a nice ST player with a little upside.

As for CLong it is a tough call. He's hurt but can they expect him to be better after another off season and take a pay cut? If not there can't be much doubt that his time in horns has come to a close.

 

[ramfan46]

You can't cut both guys in one off-season. You're losing too much leadership and there's no proof that Hager can do the job. I'm all for finding Laurinaitis's heir this off-season but he needs to be here for at least one more season.

That's just me. I think leadership is heavily overrated if the player is not making plays to help the team win. I don't see any splash plays from JL55. I just think he is one of the weakest links on the D. No FF ever?? I'd rather see Tree at MLB and retain Barron to play WLB/S than have JL55 come back next year. Compared to seeing Bruce and Holt walk, this would be nothing for me.

 

[Merlin]

Fish approves this line of thinking....

Let's draft defensive end in the first round this year WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE...!!!!!!

 

[bwdenverram]

I'm a huge fan of CL but IMO it's time to either bring him back at a significant salary decrease or save the cap space. He is just not as effective as he was and we really need the money to improve our OL and skill areas. At this point Sims and Hayes are just as effective at a lower cost.

And this won't be popular and I like JL as well, but I think a lower cost more athletic ML is needed as well.

 

[junkman]

3rd contract guys like Sims and Hayes are nicely inexpensive, critical depth for any competitive team.

CLong? Certainly not 16M or whatever he's due, but he's not the only one. This offseason will painful for a lot of sacred cow players. Also JL55 (esp with emergence of Barron and Ogletree), Saffold, Cook. Britt is maybe just cut? Brian Quick?

Need to pay the 2nd contract guys who are really contributing - TruJo, JJenkins, McLeod, Barron (at least some of those guys). Maybe have to pony up some for the important role players like Harkey, Cunningham and Bates.

Dropping some CLong cap space means we get to keep a lot of other critical players. As much as I'd like to just keep everyone, that's what it really comes down to.

 

[Stel]

RE: Chris Long.

1. I don't think his replacement is under contract for 2016.
2. I don't think he is worth keeping at his current contract amount (salary $9.75 mil, roster bonus $2 mil, total cap hit of $14.25 mil).
3. Chris Long still has value as a player, probably more to us than most other teams.
4. Currently, the only DEs we have under contract for 2016 are Quinn and Long. Longacre is an ERFA.
5. Good starting DEs in FA command large salaries.

Therefore, I suggest our best course is to resign Long to a reasonable contract, resign Hayes, and draft a developmental/rotational DE in the mid rounds who you expect to be ready to start in 2017.

 

[FrantikRam]

Wow. So Gurley and Tavon do nothing for you? What about the fact that they have used more draft and FA capital on the offense than the defense?
#2 overall pick last year, trading up to 8 for TA, Gurley this year not to mention practically every other pick in this last draft went offense...

You don't have to like all the moves they have made, but it hasn't been an issue of "ignoring the offense".
It's an issue of coaching them.

Give me a good OC, get a new Oline coach because Paul Beaudreau hasn't been very good (cmon, he has been given a pass for too long) and get rid of Sherman for a better WR coach... just an all new offensive staff...

Yes, I want change, but not just extreme change just for the sake of it.
Fisher and Snead have given us Brockers, Ogletree, Austin, Donald and Gurley.
Whose picks over the last 4 years you would swap those guys for?

Remember what our drafts looked like before these guys got here (sure, we got Quinn on the slide.... but other than that???)
Where was all that offensive talent before they got here?
Like it or not, Snead/Fisher have provided us with the best offensive players since Vermeil left in 2000.

I don't think you read my post the way I meant for it to be read.

I said they stack the defense while essentially ignoring the offense, meaning in the beginning.

Then I said they try to build the offense and fail - me saying "try to build" is giving them credit for Tavon and Gurley - and I love those guys. But the offense is still a failure. Which is why I said I want the whole staff gone.

It sounds like we actually agree.

But I do see your points about the offense - they "tried". They added FAs and did draft some players...but ultimately I feel like they put more into the defense, which is where my comment of ignoring the offense came from. The first offensive players this staff added using significant assets (money/high draft picks) were Jared Cook, Brian Quick, and Isaiah Pead.

I suppose they did try...but yikes that's a pitiful group of offensive players.

 

[BonifayRam]

RE: Chris Long.

1. I don't think his replacement is under contract for 2016.
2. I don't think he is worth keeping at his current contract amount (salary $9.75 mil, roster bonus $2 mil, total cap hit of $14.25 mil).
3. Chris Long still has value as a player, probably more to us than most other teams.
4. Currently, the only DEs we have under contract for 2016 are Quinn and Long. Longacre is an ERFA.
5. Good starting DEs in FA command large salaries.

Therefore, I suggest our best course is to resign Long to a reasonable contract, resign Hayes, and draft a developmental/rotational DE in the mid rounds who you expect to be ready to start in 2017.

Hayes who was paid 4.5 million to be the back up to Chris Long this season is sure to want a nice pay increase since he has carried the starting load the last two seasons for Long. Are you suggesting that Hayes will sign for less ??? Hayes was already very well paid as a back up DE.

Hayes is worth much more on the open UFA market where he can easily get starting $$$. Hayes can play on a 34 or a 43 defense. Hayes would be completely nuts to....... #1- desire to sign for less money........ #2- on a losing team and #3- while Hayes is at his NFL peak.

IMO if Hayes does return he certainly has earned a higher $$$ contract based on his performance & stats alone & would demand more than Chris Long would. He has much more to offer in his 31 yr old tough tank. Bottom line here getting Hayes back will cost a lot!

Some of the above said on Hayes can be mentioned here with Christ Long. Do you believe that Long desires to continue to play for a losing NFL team as he enters the final playing yrs of his career? Currently Long is the 2nd LDE on this Ram team already & is on the field mainly on just passing downs. He has had back to back seasons injury filled with wear & tear years clearly showing up on his soon to be 31 yr old body. Could you possibly tell me why Chris Long is going to take a very sizable pay cut to remain with the Rams & why would the Rams continue to afford to pay big for a downward trending DE? I know Atlanta Falcons would offer up big chunks of the city to pay big for both Hayes & Long.

 

[fearsomefour]

He is not healthy, not 100% yet. Probably won't be the rest of the year.
I would try to resign Hayes, but, my number one FA resign on the D line would be Fairley. He has played very well and is making plays.

 

[Stel]

Hayes who was paid 4.5 million to be the back up to Chris Long this season is sure to want a nice pay increase since he has carried the starting load the last two seasons for Long. Are you suggesting that Hayes will sign for less ??? Hayes was already very well paid as a back up DE.

I don't believe I suggested anything regarding Hayes' potential contract, only suggested he be resigned.

I'm not sure he would command a big salary as a starting LDE. He was probably in a better position for such a deal after his 2012 season (probably his best as a pro) but signed his 3 year $10.25 contract with the Rams. At 31, he isn't going to break the bank anywhere. Hayes is what he is, a very good rotational/back up LDE. He has been very well paid by St. Louis (25th highest DE cap number this year). If he gets better starting level money somewhere else, he'll be gone.

As for Long, offer to restructure for what he is worth as a FA for 2016. If he doesn't want to play here, he won't take it and will likely play for less elsewhere. Same with Hayes. It is a business and LDEs over the age of 30 generally don't command huge salaries.