Jrry32 Second to Last Mock Draft

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OC--LeftCoast

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Greg
Yes you are correct ( btw my damn comma key is stuck) I guess my correlation would be as with Clemmings he too had minimal time in grade as a full time O lineman.

I thought he had a nice mean streak and was going to at least be serviceable...not sure what went wrong... I suppose it could have been lousy coaching.

I guess I'm a little shell-shocked from that experience

One thing I believe is certain - the Rams will draft 2 of their first 4 picks for the O Line.
 

jrry32

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Yes you are correct ( btw my damn comma key is stuck) I guess my correlation would be as with Clemmings he too had minimal time in grade as a full time O lineman.

I thought he had a nice mean streak and was going to at least be serviceable...not sure what went wrong... I suppose it could have been lousy coaching.

I guess I'm a little shell-shocked from that experience

One thing I believe is certain - the Rams will draft 2 of their first 4 picks for the O Line.

I hope so. Either that or I hope they have a starting vet RT and OG in mind...or both.
 

thehammer

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Okay. Lets put that to the test:
Sack #1 - Bootleg to the opposite side of the field, got stripped from behind as he was trying to deliver the pass to an open player...Smelter played no part in this play
Scramble #1 - No press...Smelter is open on the stop route just short of the marker but Thomas opts to scramble for 7 yards

Yep, I'm the one insulting people's football knowledge. That's two whole plays. One of which was ran to the opposite side of the field...and the other? It shows Smelter getting separation which undermines your argument.

Feel free to go back through the game yourself. I watched every pass attempt in the game as well as every run by QBs Justin Thomas and Tim Byerly.

know we see 2 different games when we evaluate players....

give my take on Smelter...bullish straight line player with below average straight line speed or quickness. Runs a very limited route tree(basically the same 2 routes over and over) in a very friendly offense for wr's..

being hurt IMO helps his stock because scouts don't get current 40, vertical or short times...which I expect would be very bad
lacks the flexibility/body control to play wr at the next level...

a bad fit for the Rams because it's doubtful he can play special teams coming off the ACL and will need years to develop the ability to beat press or become fluid enough to run a complete rt tree. Sort of an over sized Givens. Useless unless starting.

You had previously listed Bell in one of your mocks....a perfect fit for the rams along with players like Rannell Hall and Dez Lewis. All great 4th wr's..(the ability to play all 3 wr spots and special teams) I don't get your infatuation with Smelter but it doesn't matter. We can follow his career over the next 2/3 years and one of us will have a learning opportunity..which is all the draft is, a learning opportunity to learn and grow from our misses.
 

Boston Ram

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Like this mock. Probably realistic in terms of which players will be available.

I'm on the Clemmings band wagon, if your concerned watch what he did this season. He is going to be fine. He has the tools to be the best OT in this draft.

Like the Tomlinson and Smelter picks also. Not going to comment on Grayson you know my opinion there lol.

I will say this and the more times I run through these I wonder if it makes more sense to target OG in the 3rd. I see a lot of guys in that 3rd and 4th rounds that are as good as the guys mentioned in the 2nd. For example is there really a big drop off from Tomlinson to say Tre Jackson?
 

TheDYVKX

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I'm 100% fine with this draft.

Clemmings is still very raw, a lot more than I initially realized, but I'm still high on him because he has crazy potential. I think you could trade down a little more and get him if you wanted, but still worth it.

Grayson is a great pick imo. I never watched him as closely as I should, and only now am I seeing his phenomenal accuracy and anticipation. I really like that part of his game and I think he's ready to play if he had to. I'd like more arm strength out of him, but that's my only conplaint and he has plenty of zip on his throws, more than enough.

Tomlinson is solid. I'm not sure if he's going to be anything special, but he's going to be at least a good starter for years. Not a home run but it's a smart pick.

Haven't watched enough of Smelter, but I've heard tons of good things and I liked what I saw. Going to watch more.

Know nothing about Celisar but in the 6th round I have no expectations and if he has some upside, I'm all for it.
 

Memphis Ram

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I will say this and the more times I run through these I wonder if it makes more sense to target OG in the 3rd. I see a lot of guys in that 3rd and 4th rounds that are as good as the guys mentioned in the 2nd. For example is there really a big drop off from Tomlinson to say Tre Jackson?
When it comes to the overall effect on an offense, I don't believe that the drop off at OGs is significant from the first 3 - 4 rounds. ie. I don't believe that Scherff helps get this team any more wins that Jamon Brown. This draft class is just that deep and its simply the nature of the position.
 

jrry32

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know we see 2 different games when we evaluate players....

give my take on Smelter...bullish straight line player with below average straight line speed or quickness. Runs a very limited route tree(basically the same 2 routes over and over) in a very friendly offense for wr's..

being hurt IMO helps his stock because scouts don't get current 40, vertical or short times...which I expect would be very bad
lacks the flexibility/body control to play wr at the next level...


a bad fit for the Rams because it's doubtful he can play special teams coming off the ACL and will need years to develop the ability to beat press or become fluid enough to run a complete rt tree. Sort of an over sized Givens. Useless unless starting.

You had previously listed Bell in one of your mocks....a perfect fit for the rams along with players like Rannell Hall and Dez Lewis. All great 4th wr's..(the ability to play all 3 wr spots and special teams) I don't get your infatuation with Smelter but it doesn't matter. We can follow his career over the next 2/3 years and one of us will have a learning opportunity..which is all the draft is, a learning opportunity to learn and grow from our misses.

Gotta disagree. You look at what Darren Waller put up athletically and then watch the two on the field, it leaves you with a distinctly different impression. Those big GT WRs are always sneaky athletic. A lot of people didn't think DeMaryius Thomas was as athletic as he is.

As far as quickness, we're talking about a 225 pound WR making moves like these:
KlutzyAliveConey.gif



On the flexibility and acceleration front, check this out:
WeirdInsidiousAzurevasesponge.gif

Look at how fluid his hips are to sell that route as hard as he did, watch the natural bend as he sells the hitch, and then you see the acceleration into the go.

Here's an example of body control:
GrossDeliciousDuckbillplatypus.gif


Another example of Smelter's flexibility:
InfatuatedAjarEmperorpenguin.gif


Again, you see the hips sink naturally, the fluidity of his hips, and then the explosiveness coming out of his cut...plus, a nice subtle little push-off...again, I'll point out that he's 6'2" 225...you don't expect a guy with a body type like that to cut, bend, and flip his hips with the ease that Smelter does...yes, he's a raw route runner but he's got the skill-set to be very good at it if you develop him.

Showing some quickness and acceleration here:
LateScrawnyLark.gif


Here's a good shot of him up against Kendall Fuller:
DimwittedShowyAustraliansilkyterrier.gif


My "infatuation" with Smelter is simple. Big, strong, aggressive WR that plays with physicality before the catch, after the catch, and when blocking with the speed to get behind defenses, the hips and flexibility to run routes effectively at the next level, the quickness to make players miss after the catch, and absolutely massive hands with no drop issues (although he does need to be more consistent attacking the ball away from his frame).
 

jrry32

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When it comes to the overall effect on an offense, I don't believe that the drop off at OGs is significant from the first 3 - 4 rounds. ie. I don't believe that Scherff helps get this team any more wins that Jamon Brown. This draft class is just that deep and its simply the nature of the position.

Unless you think that they'll end up being the same caliber of player, I don't consider this solid logic.
 

T-Hawks

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I don't want TJ Clemmings. He looked so bad at the Senior Bowl. He honesty looked like the worst tackle there. It was atrocious. He is way to raw to use a first round pick on him. I would take Andrus Peat with that pick. Peat is way more polished than Clemmings.
 

jrry32

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I don't want TJ Clemmings. He looked so bad at the Senior Bowl. He honesty looked like the worst tackle there. It was atrocious. He is way to raw to use a first round pick on him. I would take Andrus Peat with that pick. Peat is way more polished than Clemmings.

Peat also is a pure OT with some issues of his own. With Clemmings, he gives you versatility and more upside. I'd rather take the upside here...especially with Barksdale back and Tomlinson in the 2nd.
 

Athos

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I dunno how you can look at Smelter's highlights and think he's a 4.6 player. Not even close. He accelerates in a hurry for a big man. Big, angry acceleration.

And he can really move at that weight. I'm talking quick feet and cutting.

Raw yea, but Smelter the sort of guy you can afford to bring along slowly, especially if you can steal him in the 5th.
 

Boston Ram

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When it comes to the overall effect on an offense, I don't believe that the drop off at OGs is significant from the first 3 - 4 rounds. ie. I don't believe that Scherff helps get this team any more wins that Jamon Brown. This draft class is just that deep and its simply the nature of the position.

I tend to agree, I know you have mentioned him a couple of times in other threads. I prefer Jackson and Shaq Mason but we have 3 guys who will be available in the 3rd and 4th rounds that can probably start next year.
 

Boston Ram

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Peat also is a pure OT with some issues of his own. With Clemmings, he gives you versatility and more upside. I'd rather take the upside here...especially with Barksdale back and Tomlinson in the 2nd.

I agree, his upside is being the best OT in this class and if people watch the games he had a very good year. I get the angst by a lot of people but I think it's a bit of an over reaction
 

Memphis Ram

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Unless you think that they'll end up being the same caliber of player, I don't consider this solid logic.

They don't even have to be the same caliber player as long as neither bust or is vastly below the other (even then there can be some compensation by the staff/playcaller/QB).

Anyway, one could be merely solid and the other above average. As long as that player is working well in sync with the others, the OLine would be fine. Thus, there shouldn't be any difference in wins and losses.
 

jrry32

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They don't even have to be the same caliber player as long as neither bust or is vastly below the other (even then there can be some compensation by the staff/playcaller/QB).

Anyway, one could be merely solid and the other above average. As long as that player is working well in sync with the others, the OLine would be fine. Thus, there shouldn't be any difference in wins and losses.

Yea, the OL will be fine but there is a difference made by the quality of a player. You can tell the difference between a good starter and an average starter. And it does have an effect on the outcome of games. Take Rodger Saffold and Harvey Dahl at RG in 2013 as an example of it.
 

Memphis Ram

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Yea, the OL will be fine but there is a difference made by the quality of a player. You can tell the difference between a good starter and an average starter. And it does have an effect on the outcome of games. Take Rodger Saffold and Harvey Dahl at RG in 2013 as an example of it.

But, Harvey Dahl was a shell of himself during his final season coming off torn biceps and struggling with hip and ankle woes. And that was even prior to his knee injury. He may have been an average starter in the past, but he wasn't in 2013.