Jrry32 Second to Last Mock Draft

[Merlin]

I love Tomlinson in round 2, really nice pick there. He would instantly start at LG and play very well in my estimation, he's a fit.

Clemmings I can live with; he might not be able to beat out Barks in camp but Coach Bou would have high end talent to work with and that is acceptable since we are talking the RT position.

Grayson I can live with and I don't mind the reach since like I've said a million times QBs debunk that whole value thing with the importance of the position and supply/demand; plus he does have a very nice skill set for a WCO attack.

Not a big fan of the WR choice but hey it's fourth round so whatever. Solid effort and I always appreciate anyone who puts in the work, fun read.

 

[Memphis Ram]

I do agree you need to have five guys in unison all coming together as one cohesive unit. Problem is the offensive line issue has been an issue for the Rams since 2007 and they keep throwing money and draft choices and have not yet found the solution. Guess I took it for granted in the 70's and 80's and during the Greatest Show on Turf.

In the end they need to solve that equation and IMO, this will be the draft they try to do it. First round and third most likely, but as you illustrate ever so eloquently, that may not solve the issue, but I guess I am just tired of the offensive line being a question mark year in and year out and I'm ready and hopeful this will be the year we don't have to worry about that unit.

Glad Collins is up to 320, he would be my pick for the record.

Given that, prior to Robinson, the organization has only used 4 (of about 36 or so) selections on OLinemen in the first four rounds of the draft since 2007 (Saffold, Greco, Jones, Smith), I'm not surprised.

BTW, I like Collins the most, too.

 

[jrry32]

see a lot of Jason Smith in Clemmings...and his low wonderlic is also bothersome but each to his own. We will all know in a couple of years

doubt Celiscar is a good fit for the rams ..just lacks the quickness/long speed to hold up in man to man coverage..more of a nickle/zone cb.

Zero chance the Rams will draft him IMO but will be interesting following his career. Maybe without a position in the NFL..too small and doesn't tackle well enough to play fs and doesn't run well enough to play cb . Still our 6th is almost a 7th and Celsicar might be as good as any else still on the board in this draft

I'd like to know what Smelter ran as a junior, the scouts do, that would give a good tip when he will be drafted...looks like a 4.55/4.6 guy when watching him. Watched the Tulane vs Georgia tech game and Lorenzo Doss manned Smelter up all over the field and dominated him...zero catches. Doss is a decent cb prospect and likely will go in the 4th/5th rd area but Smelter couldn't get off the line of scrimmage when pressed and lacked to speed to get open when Doss was in off coverage...what does that say about Smelter?

Smelter coming off the acl has zero st value so how high do you draft a developmental wr who will take up a roster spot and can't even dress on Sunday?

He dominated Smelter and held him to zero catches? That's one way to put it. I think the fact that GT only attempted 8 passes and completed only 3 passes is more likely what held Smelter to 0 catches. But here's what happened on a pass by pass basis:
Pass #1 - No press on Smelter...his job is to clear out coverage for the wheel route down the sideline but Thomas overthrows the HB on the wheel
Pass #2 - No press on Smelter...Thomas targets Smelter near the sideline on 3rd and 12 about 2 yards past the marker but he throws the ball 5 yards over Smelter's head out of bounds...Doss appeared to have good coverage
Pass #3 - Press on Smelter and good coverage...Thomas has nowhere to go with the ball
Pass #4 - Doss doesn't cover Smelter...short little dump off to the HB to get the first down
Pass #5 - Doss doesn't press...Smelter clears out the coverage for the HB to be wide open but Thomas misses the throw
Pass #6 - Smelter not on the field
Pass #7 - Doss doesn't press...Smelter clears out coverage for pass underneath to HB
Pass #8 - Doss blitzes...Thomas looks the other way and throws up a deep pass to Waller that's picked off

Smelter also faced Kendall Fuller and gave him all sorts of issues. And Fuller is a much more highly regarded player than Doss.

 

[jrry32]

Do you think that Cann won't be there in the second round with the Rams pick? Because while I know you like Grayson, I think that Cann would be a better pick in that scenario, and you could still get Grayson with the Miami pick. The picks aren't really far apart, and the teams between those picks don't need quarterbacks with the exception of Cleveland - and it's more than possible that they deal for a veteran quarterback instead.

As for the BPA, try for a defensive end who might be slipping. We're going to need at least one in this draft, since Long, Hayes, and Sims are likely all gone next year.

He might be. But I'd still take Grayson to be safe.

 

[jrry32]

@den-the-coach

There are probably a myriad of ways to upgrade the OLine above last year's injured group. But, in the end, none of them really matter if the QB and OC aren't on their games.

I just want to see 5 average to above average guys working together on the same page as that's all an offense really needs. And, IMO, that can happen if the team goes OLine during the first couple or rounds or if they did not.

What many consider the best OLine in football only has 3 studs and two guys most here would be screaming to replace (Leary & Free). And that same team had a great offense even before the 3rd guy (Martin) got there.

BTW, I read that Collins is back up to 320.

That's a stretch. Leary and Free are both solid starters. I don't see many people wanting Saffold replaced for his on the field play.

People just don't want liabilities.

Clemmings may be a bit too raw to be selected that high for my taste. Physically, he looks more like a LT than a RT type to me and I didn't like it that it was said that he was losing confidence during Senior Bowl practices. He hasn't seen anything yet.

Why is that?

Do you just mean in terms of build?

 

[jrry32]

Interesting draft. In that scenario I wouldn't be surprised that Laken beats out Clemmings at LG... actually, that they keep Saffold at LG and Laken takes RG with Clemmings on the bench.

That's possible. The thing about Clemmings, though, is that he has great feet, bend, length, and freakish strength. So if he was able to get the scheme down quickly and handle the mental/technical aspects of the position switch, he's the more talented guy.

But it's very possible that Tomlinson would beat him out.

 

[Memphis Ram]

That's a stretch. Leary and Free are both solid starters. I don't see many people wanting Saffold replaced for his on the field play.

People just don't want liabilities.

Not a stretch at all. Put Leary and Free in St. Louis away from Romo and that offense some would be calling for their heads. Put Barksdale in Dallas and some would all the sudden see him as solid like Leary and Free.

And you lost me on Saffold, as I never said anything about replacing him.

Why is that?

Do you just mean in terms of build?

Yes.

 

[jrry32]

Not a stretch at all. Put Leary and Free in St. Louis away from Romo and that offense some would be calling for their heads. Put Barksdale in Dallas and some would all the sudden see him as solid like Leary and Free.

And you lost me on Saffold, as I never said anything about replacing him.


Yes.

Saffold was a solid starter last year. Played around the same level as Leary and Free. Nobody was calling for his head because of his play.

And hell, I don't remember people calling for Barksdale's head either. Most of us consider him a solid player. Some just want an upgrade. Me? I'd take him back on a cheaper short term deal in a heartbeat.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Saffold was a solid starter last year. Played around the same level as Leary and Free. Nobody was calling for his head because of his play.

And hell, I don't remember people calling for Barksdale's head either. Most of us consider him a solid player. Some just want an upgrade. Me? I'd take him back on a cheaper short term deal in a heartbeat.

C'mon. Everyone knew that Saffold was playing injured and that he looked great the prior season at RG when he wasn't hurt. Plus, he's the most versatile OLineman on the team.

And there are posters that want Barksdale gone (some even rooting for him to sign elsewhere) . Even though he only just finished his 2nd NFL season as a full time starter and looked a lot better the prior year playing next to Saffold as opposed to Joseph.

 

[TheTackle]

I do not like this draft.... but understand that you like these players. Does this draft tally with how you have players ranked?

This is a tough year to predict where prospects will go, but I do not see much value in trading down a few spots to miss out on a blue chip prospect in Parker, in order to draft a talented, but risky prospect in Clemmings...

You then spend a high second round pick on Grayson... who is a reasonably talented prospect, who should get drafted, but a high 2nd? When does he start over Foles in your opinion? Year 2, 3 or never?

I do not hate the Tomlinson pick and think he could start year one.... but any run scheme will need to play to his strengths and he will make some mistakes/get beaten in pass pro.

I am a little curious, in this scenario have we already signed Barksdale prior to the draft? He would be making more money than Clemmings and Tomlinson combined in 2015, so that would confine at least one, if not both to the bench... with Saffold RG, Barksdale RT (Tomlinson depth RG and Clemmings, depth position unknown)... Robinson was further along when we drafted him and did not start anywhere through first few weeks

If this draft + FA signing played out, it is not inconceivable that we end up with no additional starters through four rounds

 

[jrry32]

C'mon. Everyone knew that Saffold was playing injured and that he looked great the prior season at RG when he wasn't hurt. Plus, he's the most versatile OLineman on the team.

And there are posters that want Barksdale gone (some even rooting for him to sign elsewhere) . Even though he only just finished his 2nd NFL season as a full time starter and looked a lot better the prior year playing next to Saffold as opposed to Joseph.

There were posters that wanted Chris Long gone. There were posters that wanted Quick gone. You're always going to have disagreement among fans on the value of players. Even the great ones like Quinn, there's some disagreement as to how great he is.

 

[jrry32]

I do not like this draft.... but understand that you like these players. Does this draft tally with how you have players ranked?

This is a tough year to predict where prospects will go, but I do not see much value in trading down a few spots to miss out on a blue chip prospect in Parker, in order to draft a talented, but risky prospect in Clemmings...

Yes.

You then spend a high second round pick on Grayson... who is a reasonably talented prospect, who should get drafted, but a high 2nd? When does he start over Foles in your opinion? Year 2, 3 or never?

If Foles is here next year, he did something right. Then we have one heck of a backup in Grayson. If Foles doesn't play well, Grayson starts.

I do not hate the Tomlinson pick and think he could start year one.... but any run scheme will need to play to his strengths and he will make some mistakes/get beaten in pass pro.

I am a little curious, in this scenario have we already signed Barksdale prior to the draft? He would be making more money than Clemmings and Tomlinson combined in 2015, so that would confine at least one, if not both to the bench... with Saffold RG, Barksdale RT (Tomlinson depth RG and Clemmings, depth position unknown)... Robinson was further along when we drafted him and did not start anywhere through first few weeks

Yep. One of them provides depth in 2015. Which is a good idea knowing our luck when it comes to the OL and Saffold's injury history.

If this draft + FA signing played out, it is not inconceivable that we end up with no additional starters through four rounds

It pretty much is. One of Tomlinson or Clemmings will be starting at OG. But I don't know when not having a bunch of rookie starters became a bad thing. That generally means your team doesn't have many holes.

 

[Memphis Ram]

There were posters that wanted Chris Long gone. There were posters that wanted Quick gone. You're always going to have disagreement among fans on the value of players. Even the great ones like Quinn, there's some disagreement as to how great he is.

Well, of course. But, but did these same posters want Long or Quinn gone because they actually viewed them as liabilities and/or weak links on the field? That was my point with Leary and Free.

 

[jrry32]

Well, of course. But, but did these same posters want Long or Quinn gone because they actually viewed them as liabilities and/or weak links on the field? That was my point with Leary and Free.

I would hope so.

 

[thehammer]

He dominated Smelter and held him to zero catches? That's one way to put it. I think the fact that GT only attempted 8 passes and completed only 3 passes is more likely what held Smelter to 0 catches. But here's what happened on a pass by pass basis:
Pass #1 - No press on Smelter...his job is to clear out coverage for the wheel route down the sideline but Thomas overthrows the HB on the wheel
Pass #2 - No press on Smelter...Thomas targets Smelter near the sideline on 3rd and 12 about 2 yards past the marker but he throws the ball 5 yards over Smelter's head out of bounds...Doss appeared to have good coverage
Pass #3 - Press on Smelter and good coverage...Thomas has nowhere to go with the ball
Pass #4 - Doss doesn't cover Smelter...short little dump off to the HB to get the first down
Pass #5 - Doss doesn't press...Smelter clears out the coverage for the HB to be wide open but Thomas misses the throw
Pass #6 - Smelter not on the field
Pass #7 - Doss doesn't press...Smelter clears out coverage for pass underneath to HB
Pass #8 - Doss blitzes...Thomas looks the other way and throws up a deep pass to Waller that's picked off

Smelter also faced Kendall Fuller and gave him all sorts of issues. And Fuller is a much more highly regarded player than Doss.

will say you are insulting both of football knowledge by listing the passes attempted...
I watched the game the qb tried to get balls to Smelter but had to run several times because of the coverage....several other times a quick look and threw elsewhere..just smothered by the press

I'll watch Smelter vs Kendall Fuller to see if I see anything different...

quick glance saw Max Valles running Smelter down from behind and zero press by the cb's

Smelter still looks like a big bodied 4.6 wr to me..

 

[jrry32]

will say you are insulting both of football knowledge by listing the passes attempted...
I watched the game the qb tried to get balls to Smelter but had to run several times because of the coverage....several other times a quick look and threw elsewhere..just smothered by the press

I'll watch Smelter vs Kendall Fuller to see if I see anything different...

Okay. Lets put that to the test:
Sack #1 - Bootleg to the opposite side of the field, got stripped from behind as he was trying to deliver the pass to an open player...Smelter played no part in this play
Scramble #1 - No press...Smelter is open on the stop route just short of the marker but Thomas opts to scramble for 7 yards

Yep, I'm the one insulting people's football knowledge. That's two whole plays. One of which was ran to the opposite side of the field...and the other? It shows Smelter getting separation which undermines your argument.

Feel free to go back through the game yourself. I watched every pass attempt in the game as well as every run by QBs Justin Thomas and Tim Byerly.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Risky (albeit the potential for high reward is there)

Not on board with TJ Clemmings...gonna have to side with hammer's Jason Smith take (honestly, I really came to that conclusion long before it was mentioned here)

Like the QB choice...just not sure you have the right QB in that slot (I'd take Bret Hundley)

2 Blue Chip OL within the first 3 picks is fine by me just give me proven 3-4 yr starters and not combine warriors. (I'm with the crowd that believes it takes technique and brains to be a first year OL impact player...do you really believe Snisher in a must succeed year is looking for future potential?)

Love the effort tho jrry...your stuff is must read

 

[jrry32]

Risky (albeit the potential for high reward is there)

Not on board with TJ Clemmings...gonna have to side with hammer's Jason Smith take (honestly, I really came to that conclusion long before it was mentioned here)

Like the QB choice...just not sure you have the right QB in that slot (I'd take Bret Hundley)

2 Blue Chip OL within the first 3 picks is fine by me just give me proven 3-4 yr starters and not combine warriors. (I'm with the crowd that believes it takes technique and brains to be a first year OL impact player...do you really believe Snisher in a must succeed year is looking for future potential?)

Love the effort tho jrry...your stuff is must read

I would hope so. If they're not, they deserve to be fired.

Clemmings isn't a combine warrior. Don't know where that label even came from. If anything, the post-season process hurt his stock. Guy had a good combine and pro day but his stock was hurt more by struggles at the Senior Bowl than helped by workouts. Based on the film before the Senior Bowl, a lot of people thought he could make a play to go top 10.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Well he could be the next Larry Allen or he could be Jason Smith the sequel - either way I wouldn't consider him early 1st rd material.

I usally agree with you but on this we're just going to have to agree to disagree...dude just doesn't have enough "time in grade" at his trade. (for me)

I could be wrong... his football IQ may be off the charts.

 

[jrry32]

Well he could be the next Larry Allen or he could be Jason Smith the sequel - either way I wouldn't consider him early 1st rd material.

I usally agree with you but on this we're just going to have to agree to disagree...dude just doesn't have enough "time in grade" at his trade. (for me)

I could be wrong... his football IQ may be off the charts.

I always wonder what Smith could have been if he didn't have Steve Loney coaching him. But Jason Smith doesn't make a lot of sense to me as a comparison. Smith came out of Baylor as a guy who spent his entire career in a two point stance in their spread offense. Clemmings is coming out of Pittsburgh who runs a pro style ground and pound offense. Pretty much the opposite in terms of offensive philosophies. One of the biggest questions with Smith was how he'd do in a pro offense with a power scheme.