Jrry32 Mock Off-Season #2

[Athos]

They capitalize on a risk that drops a top talent down the draft board...kind of like what we did with Robert Quinn.

Not the same risk at all imo. Quinn had a benign tumor with no sign whatsoever of decreased ability other than sitting out a year due to violations.

I submit to you Willis McGahee as an example. And he was coming off a far worse injury.

I love Gurley. I made the first thread on him earlier this year. But 2015 isn't 2003, especially with all the quality backs taken in later rounds. I'd eat Gurley up in the 2nd, but to take him in the 1st, even late, I'd have to follow every aspect of his recovery and see where he is before the draft and work his ass out like crazy with medical check-ups. Gurley is the best RB to come out from a talent stand point in a while, but the Bradford mess, then the Long mess......just leave me wary and you should be understand that. I suppose it all matters if you're looking to win big in 2015 or 2016.

Funny his interview with Keyshawn Johnson showcased a reserved, articulate and stoic individual, but you cannot judge by one interview. IMO before Hundley UCLA had done nothing, he ranks third in winning percentage to Troy Aikman & Gary Beban. Like I posted the next few games will a long way in deteriming his draft stock, however, IMHO, his attitude trumps both Mariota & Winston!

Interesting enough, if you want to give Winston the BOTD for all his BS, jrry has to give Hundley the BOTD as well. Who knows the extent of the truth. Everything I've seen is that he seems like a polite reserved kid. And his O-Line really is shit. As for sticking in the pocket to try to make plays there......I honestly see nothing too wrong with that. Means, at least, he knows what he needs to do to be successful in the NFL and it all starts in the pocket.

But......I'll be watching closely tonight.......well, as well as I can. MU is playing tonight and this game is huge against UT.

 

[FRO]

Funny his interview with Keyshawn Johnson showcased a reserved, articulate and stoic individual, but you cannot judge by one interview. IMO before Hundley UCLA had done nothing, he ranks third in winning percentage to Troy Aikman & Gary Beban. Like I posted the next few games will a long way in deteriming his draft stock, however, IMHO, his attitude trumps both Mariota & Winston!
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11917598

Not dissing Hundley, but there is more to a team winning than a QB. Mora has a lot to do with turning that program around.

Hundley is the type of player the Rams like to pick. Good production and high upside. This all could be a moot point and Hundley could really catapult himself into the top 10 due to lack of depth at the position and he will do well in the workouts.

 

[den-the-coach]

Not dissing Hundley, but there is more to a team winning than a QB. Mora has a lot to do with turning that program around.

Hundley is the type of player the Rams like to pick. Good production and high upside. This all could be a moot point and Hundley could really catapult himself into the top 10 due to lack of depth at the position and he will do well in the workouts.

Fair enough on Mora, but Hundley was considered his "TOP" recruit and was termed "The Savior" on campus...I agree it might be a moot point and we posted earlier if Connor Cook reconsiders the class gets better, but I do believe he will close out the season strong and the USC defense will be a good challenge with a bonafide top 5 pick on their defensive line.

 

[jrry32]

Funny his interview with Keyshawn Johnson showcased a reserved, articulate and stoic individual, but you cannot judge by one interview. IMO before Hundley UCLA had done nothing, he ranks third in winning percentage to Troy Aikman & Gary Beban. Like I posted the next few games will a long way in deteriming his draft stock, however, IMHO, his attitude trumps both Mariota & Winston!
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=11917598

Look, I don't know Hundley but his revelation is not something you'd expect a football player to admit to.

Winston is who he is off the field but I have a hard time believing him or Mariota would ever sacrifice their team's ability to win to try and appease NFL scouts. Maybe he thought he was doing what was best for the team...but that's hard to believe.

 

[den-the-coach]

Winston is who he is off the field but I have a hard time believing him or Mariota would ever sacrifice their team's ability to win to try and appease NFL scouts. Maybe he thought he was doing what was best for the team...but that's hard to believe.

Oh come on and I find it hard to believe most players don't do that. Granted maybe he did not feel it would affect his team and maybe he learned from his mistakes, but many players in every sport has tried to change because they've been advised to work on that particular part of their game.

A first baseman needs to showcase more power so he swings for the fences more often a basketball player takes more shots a hockey goalie keeping upright more often that happens all the time and my actual fear about Winston is, he is who he is!

And being an Ohio State guy and the fact I'm standing up for a player from Yukekla (UCLA) is driving me crazy.

 

[jrry32]

Oh come on and I find it hard to believe most players don't do that. Granted maybe he did not feel it would affect his team and maybe he learned from his mistakes, but many players in every sport has tried to change because they've been advised to work on that particular part of their game.

A first baseman needs to showcase more power so he swings for the fences more often a basketball player takes more shots a hockey goalie keeping upright more often that happens all the time and my actual fear about Winston is, he is who he is!

And being an Ohio State guy and the fact I'm standing up for a player from Yukekla (UCLA) is driving me crazy.

Maybe Winston is who he is but he's a much better QB than Hundley at this point in time.

Hundley is a QB. He shouldn't be putting himself above the team.

 

[den-the-coach]

Maybe Winston is who he is but he's a much better QB than Hundley at this point in time.

Hundley is a QB. He shouldn't be putting himself above the team.

I agree on both counts! I'm interested to see how Winston scores on the Wonderlic...I have heard Winston has football smarts, but I wonder overall. Keyshawn Johnson did say that Winston is better than half the quarterbacks in the NFL right now.

 

[Mojo Ram]

I cannot condone an offseason scenario that simply repeats last season in terms of the QB position. That will NOT be acceptable to me.
I'm confident that Fisher/Snead recognize that we are in the position we're in today because they didn't handle the Bradford contingency very well this year.

Too early for me to comment on the draft picks, although a first rd RB looks silly at this point. I'd rather draft a WR over another back(that high), and i like our WR's. Unless Gurley projects to be a game changer at the next level it's a wasted pick IMO.
RB's are plug and play and dominated by committee in todays NFL.

 

[jrry32]

Not the same risk at all imo. Quinn had a benign tumor with no sign whatsoever of decreased ability other than sitting out a year due to violations.

Quinn's medical issues were great enough that a guy that should have been a top 6-7 lock fell to the #14 pick.

You're looking at it in hindsight. I could easily argue that a torn ACL is less worrisome than a brain tumor and a season long suspension.

I love Gurley. I made the first thread on him earlier this year. But 2015 isn't 2003, especially with all the quality backs taken in later rounds. I'd eat Gurley up in the 2nd, but to take him in the 1st, even late, I'd have to follow every aspect of his recovery and see where he is before the draft and work his ass out like crazy with medical check-ups. Gurley is the best RB to come out from a talent stand point in a while, but the Bradford mess, then the Long mess......just leave me wary and you should be understand that. I suppose it all matters if you're looking to win big in 2015 or 2016.

2015 not being 2003 is why Gurley makes it to the late 1st.

Interesting enough, if you want to give Winston the BOTD for all his BS, jrry has to give Hundley the BOTD as well. Who knows the extent of the truth. Everything I've seen is that he seems like a polite reserved kid. And his O-Line really is crap. As for sticking in the pocket to try to make plays there......I honestly see nothing too wrong with that. Means, at least, he knows what he needs to do to be successful in the NFL and it all starts in the pocket.

But......I'll be watching closely tonight.......well, as well as I can. MU is playing tonight and this game is huge against UT.

How do you give someone the benefit of the doubt when they admitted to it?

 

[Athos]

How do you give someone the benefit of the doubt when they admitted to it?

What did I miss that he admitted to changing his QB-play for draft scouts? Here say articles of "journalism" where someone heard from someone who heard from someone?

If I did miss it, point it back out please.

 

[jrry32]

I agree on both counts! I'm interested to see how Winston scores on the Wonderlic...I have heard Winston has football smarts, but I wonder overall. Keyshawn Johnson did say that Winston is better than half the quarterbacks in the NFL right now.

Honestly, if Hundley was as good as Winston, I'd be more inclined to let it go. But with the issues he had, it adds another concern to the list.

I cannot condone an offseason scenario that simply repeats last season in terms of the QB position. That will NOT be acceptable to me.
I'm confident that Fisher/Snead recognize that we are in the position we're in today because they didn't handle the Bradford contingency very well this year.

Too early for me to comment on the draft picks, although a first rd RB looks silly at this point. I'd rather draft a WR over another back(that high), and i like our WR's. Unless Gurley projects to be a game changer at the next level it's a wasted pick IMO.
RB's are plug and play and dominated by committee in todays NFL.

Gurley projects to be a game changer at the next level. He's as close to Adrian Peterson as any HB that has come out since. 6'1" 230 with 4.4 speed, embarrasses tacklers with his power, great hands out of the back-field, vision, cutback lane recognition, and enough agility for his size. He's a freak of nature. There's a reason why he was considered arguably the most talented player in this draft before his injury.

I'm fine with that opinion on the QB position...what do you recommend as a solution? That's my issue. I agree with your reasoning but the solutions just aren't there.

Plus, I don't get why we'd want a WR over a HB. With the way the offense is setup now, a HB is more valuable to our team.

 

[jrry32]

What did I miss that he admitted to changing his QB-play for draft scouts? Here say articles of "journalism" where someone heard from someone who heard from someone?

If I did miss it, point it back out please.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/uclanow/la-sp-ucla-brett-hundley-pressure-20141102-story.html

“I think at the beginning of the season, there was a lot of thought, and I think it even got to me as far as not to run,” Hundley said. “But I think after last week, I really reflected on all this stuff. Everything happens for a reason, and for me, it’s all about winning games now. Focusing on the now. Doing that has gotten me to this point anyway, so why change? At this point, it’s all about winning and doing what I have to do as a quarterback to lead the team to wins.”

A big part of that pressure was trying to prove his NFL worthiness, something that got to the redshirt junior quarterback.

“I think that’s part of it, when you want to go to the next level, you want to show people you can do things,” Hundley said. “Sometimes it changed your game, honestly. … People don’t realize how much pressure there is, but at the end of the day, when you think about what got you to this point, you have to stay on your foundation.”

 

[jrry32]

As I said before, I'm back and forth on Hundley. I'll make my decision about him when we get closer to the draft. There's just so much about him to like and so much not to like.

 

[Memento]

http://www.latimes.com/sports/ucla/uclanow/la-sp-ucla-brett-hundley-pressure-20141102-story.html

To me, this article says that Hundley got caught up in the pressure to perform better. Why knock a kid for trying to improve himself?

 

[Athos]

Is that it? Wow. I can't fault the kid at all then. He owned up to his mistake, which, I don't really think is that much of a mistake. He wanted to improve himself, and the way to improve/prepare yourself for the NFL is trying to work within the pocket.

Can't say he was all that selfish. No different than winners wanting the ball. He seems pretty mature to me. Granted, I wasn't paying attention to Hundley before this year but....seems like a non issue to me.

At any rate, hard to evaluate QBs at this point. Combine helps. After that, it's a crap shoot unless you're an Andrew Luck level talent.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Gurley projects to be a game changer at the next level. He's as close to Adrian Peterson as any HB that has come out since. 6'1" 230 with 4.4 speed, embarrasses tacklers with his power, great hands out of the back-field, vision, cutback lane recognition, and enough agility for his size. He's a freak of nature. There's a reason why he was considered arguably the most talented player in this draft before his injury.

I haven't seen or read any of that, but it's still early. I'll definitely be looking into it. A game changing RB is a helluva weapon to have...but i continue to see the landscape changing in the NFL in terms of the RB's and the draft.
2014
B.Sankey 2nd
J.Hill 2nd
C.Hyde 2nd
C.Sims 3rd
T.Mason 3rd

2013
G.Bernard 2nd
L.Bell 2nd
M.Ball 2nd
E.Lacy 2nd

2012
T.Richardson 1st
Doug Martin 1st
David Wilson 1st
I.Pead 2nd
LaMichael James 2nd

2011
M.Ingram 1st
Ryan Williams 2nd
S.Vereen 2nd
M.Leshoure 2nd
Daniel Thomas 2nd
DeMarco Murray 3rd

2010
CJ Spiller 1st
R.Matthews 1st
Jahvid Best 1st
T.Gerhart 2nd
Ben Taint 2nd

^ YUCK. If i'm taking a RB that high he'd better be superman...especially when you consider the return investments available when just sitting back and drafting RB's beyond the first 40 or so picks overall.

I'm fine with that opinion on the QB position...what do you recommend as a solution? That's my issue. I agree with your reasoning but the solutions just aren't there.

Well yeah thats tough. I didn't like the Mark Barron trade. Not because i don't like the addition, but because i didn't like giving up a 4th that could have been used to maneuver on draft day. I think the Rams will end up picking somewhere around 15th, 16th, and i'm not sure the Rams have the ammunition to move up if one of the top 3 QB's drops within our grasp.

Snead needs to really put a ton of scouting eggs into the QB basket. I hope his scouts are wired into the position. We need to draft a true talent who will be ready to play within one year. No longer. I think drafting a late rd QB at this point says that we're scared to admit that QB is a need.

Plus, I don't get why we'd want a WR over a HB. With the way the offense is setup now, a HB is more valuable to our team.

Because i think our WR core is still a boom or bust group for the most part. Britt could play here the next 5 years and put up numbers or get hurt again next week and become an injury prone stop gap. I don't trust Britt's NFL body yet.

T.Austin...no explanation necessary. He'll either "get it" and be a superstar or become a career punt returner/gadget player.

B.Quick. I think he turned the corner this year, but that was a nasty injury. Looks like we're set there.

I see a WR group that's playing well together(if you include Cook) but i also see more of a need there over RB. I like all of our RB's and there are no injury concerns for me. Stacy gets dinged but it's not like he can't play.

Bottom line for me is i see more question marks at WR then i do at RB....but there are deeper concerns elsewhere on the roster. I cannot take a RB in the first rd right now.

 

[jrry32]

To me, that article says that Hundley wanted to impress scouts and put that above his teammates.

 

[FRO]

As I said before, I'm back and forth on Hundley. I'll make my decision about him when we get closer to the draft. There's just so much about him to like and so much not to like.

I don't think Hundley comes in and starts week one. Also with the lack of success running QBs have had I'm a bit nervous about both he and Mariota. If Winston didn't seem like an idiot off the field and have weight issues then he would be a slam dunk first overall pick. Then again Big Ben is very similar and has been successful.

Bottom line is the QB class has some well thought of guys at the top and not much else. I think when it's all said and done Cook jumps. He is the guy I like.

 

[jrry32]

Well yeah thats tough. I didn't like the Mark Barron trade. Not because i don't like the addition, but because i didn't like giving up a 4th that could have been used to maneuver on draft day. I think the Rams will end up picking somewhere around 15th, 16th, and i'm not sure the Rams have the ammunition to move up if one of the top 3 QB's drops within our grasp.

Snead needs to really put a ton of scouting eggs into the QB basket. I hope his scouts are wired into the position. We need to draft a true talent who will be ready to play within one year. No longer. I think drafting a late rd QB at this point says that we're scared to admit that QB is a need.

I cannot take a RB in the first rd right now.

I haven't yet evaluated Garrett Grayson, Dak Prescott, and Trevone Boykin enough. Here's hoping one of them is the guy outside the first round. Because after the top 3, the rest of the class has sucked thus far.

As far as the bold goes, isn't that what people said about Aaron Donald for a good while last year? We can't take a DT in the first round right now? Gurley is a special enough talent that you take him.

I haven't seen or read any of that, but it's still early. I'll definitely be looking into it. A game changing RB is a helluva weapon to have...but i continue to see the landscape changing in the NFL in terms of the RB's and the draft.
2014
B.Sankey 2nd
J.Hill 2nd
C.Hyde 2nd
C.Sims 3rd
T.Mason 3rd

2013
G.Bernard 2nd
L.Bell 2nd
M.Ball 2nd
E.Lacy 2nd

2012
T.Richardson 1st
Doug Martin 1st
David Wilson 1st
I.Pead 2nd
LaMichael James 2nd

2011
M.Ingram 1st
Ryan Williams 2nd
S.Vereen 2nd
M.Leshoure 2nd
Daniel Thomas 2nd
DeMarco Murray 3rd

2010
CJ Spiller 1st
R.Matthews 1st
Jahvid Best 1st
T.Gerhart 2nd
Ben Taint 2nd

^ YUCK. If i'm taking a RB that high he'd better be superman...especially when you consider the return investments available when just sitting back and drafting RB's beyond the first 40 or so picks overall.

And lets be frank, the HB position is weak in the NFL right now. Especially with Adrian Peterson out. You have Murray, Bell, Charles, Lynch, Foster, McCoy(in the midst of a bad year), Forte, and then not a lot.(after that, it's just a lot of average runners)

Jeremy Hill and Jerick McKinnon are two rookies that have shown a lot of potential.

That should change soon because this year's HB class is stacked.

But Gurley is a game changer. Can do it all as a HB and is a supremely talented runner.

 

[FRO]

Gurley is rare. If the knee is fine and he is there to be had you pick him. You don't pass on elite transcendent talent. The Donald example is perfect. Was DT a glaring need? No. If they redid the draft today would we be able to draft Donald where we did? Absolutely not.

We need all the elite talent we can get. Since there aren't many solid QBs to be had we should build up other areas of our team over reaching for a need. Make our run game elite. If Fisher can win with Collins at QB he can win with Bradford or Hill. It just takes other parts of the team stepping up.

The draft doesn't always fit your needs perfectly. Good teams pick players, bad teams fill needs.