Joyner being moved to Free Safety?

[LACHAMP46]

Despite being the shorter guy Joyner has longer arms and bigger hands than both Thomas and Mathieu.

After 40 yards the difference between a 4.6 and a 4.4 time is about 2-3 feet.
Earl Thomas (click me) Combine & 40
Tyron Mathieu 40 results as well

The only thing these 3 have in common is relative size. Different athletes. I will say, Honey Badger has been very injury prone....I wonder does his 4 bench reps at the combine have anything to do with that?

 

[Rams43]

I have a peaceful, easy feeling about our D under Wade.

We're gonna have a fine front 7 and a fine secondary.

Hell, we might have our starting 11 on D already on the roster. Wade might tinker with Joyner, Randolph at FS. Gaines, Webster, or ??? at outside or slot CB.

Give Wade a CB and maybe one other draft pick and I think he's set at starting positions and depth. As in top 10 D. Maybe even better than that.

This team will not be held back by either it's D or it's ST.

It will sink or swim based upon what McVay and his staff can add to the O via draft, play calling, and player development.

It's now really that simple. TBH, I have a really good feeling about that.

 

[bubbaramfan]

they're waiting to get that decent center.

 

[lockdnram21]

Joyner ran a 4.55 40. If he's too slow to play safety, there are hell of a lot of good safeties in the NFL who were too slow to play their position. That Eric Weddle guy? He only ran a 4.56 40. Too slow to play safety despite being a five-time All Pro.

As for his size, size doesn't matter at FS. Rodney McLeod was a small guy too. If you have the balls, strength, and instincts, you can play FS. Go ahead and ask Michael Floyd if Joyner is too small:
http://gph.is/2ofhWe1

You can also ask this 220 pound HB:
http://gph.is/2ofCuTX

Joyner was an above average slot CB despite never being a great player with his back to the ball and being a bit too grabby in man coverage. He's always been a much better fit at FS. He's at his best attacking downhill and playing with his eyes to the QB.

You're wrong about the kid.

I disagree he was not that good at cb... Most of his plays should have been pi

 

[Ram65]

Looking the combine numbers Mathieu is a little faster but much quicker. Joyner has more leg power and upper body strength. Joyner should get a shot at FS. Wade can decide the best lineup.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/tyrann-mathieu?id=2540180
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/lamarcus-joyner?id=2543492
Mathieu

COMBINE RESULTS

• 4.50 SEC
• 4 REPS
• 34.0 INCH
• 117.0 INCH
• 6.87 SEC
• 4.14 SEC

Joyner

• 4.55 SEC
• 14 REPS
• 37.5 INCH
• 124.0 INCH
• 7.26 SEC
  • • • 4.40 SEC

 

[BonifayRam]

Wade seems to have a good size cadre of deep free safety candidates already signed & under contract IMO. Not sure why I see so many members desiring to use one of the top 2 draft choices on this position.

LJ who has been basically a starter since he was a rookie 2014 (3 yrs) has now been discussed widely as the top FS candidate .....should ROD also consider another 2014 drafted DB who has been a starter for 2 seasons & would have been a starter for 3rd season if not for the serious damaging foot injury in 2015 pre season EJ Gaines should also a bona fide candidate too?

It was clear to me early & then very clear late in the season that EJ Gaines physically was NO longer able to play the outside corner posts. EJ as a rookie was a 4.55 to 4.6 in the 40 at best. It was his serious professional approach that he displayed that placed him solidly on the roster as a rookie. He was a good physical zone corner that played tough with ultra football IQ with ball awareness that made him a good rookie starter.

That foot injury damage now brought to light his big HOLES in his skills....he was now tight as hell in his hips his former very average transitional quickness was GONE he can not plant that foot & flip his hips any-longer without loosing several steps! His days as a starting outside CB in the NFL is done. Wade should not consider him as a valid reserve to either of those two posts. Leaving the Nickle & FS posts as possible posts to complete.

The deep safety post would utilize his better skills & talents using that high NFL IQ & ball awareness skills. The 5-9 1/2 EJ Gaines plays bigger than his size & is tough. Playing FS would let him put on some needed additional size & muscle to bring the hit with his tackles. Great eyes and route recognition skills that the deep safety is in need of would come in handy. If EJ damage foot does improve a bit this off season then EJ might be a decent Nickel Back reserve too.

Wade already has the 6-2 206 pound veteran FS Cody Davis who is the Rams fasted Ram DB, Brian Randolph, Jerome Couplin & Marqui Christian ready to go you add in LJ & EJ into the mix @ FS & it should give you some excellent contenders by the time pre season ends. I see Zero need for drafting any safety with so many needs elsewhere.

I do not see EJ Gaines making this roster in 2017 if he remains as a outside CB candidate.

 

[Sleepy1711]

Joyner at FS please! As long as he faces the ball, he's pretty damn good.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYGVYyOhtE

 

[jrry32]

I disagree he was not that good at cb... Most of his plays should have been pi

Can say the same thing about the elite CBs. If it's not getting called, he's not doing anything wrong. The top LTs hold often. Refs don't call it.

He did his job well.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Not sure why I see so many members desiring to use one of the top 2 draft choices on this position.

Not a high choice Boni.....Look at who we've visited....Son of bum likes DB's that can run...ooh, that rhymes!

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...hmond-fs-david-jones.49048/page-2#post-885548

David Jones

DAVID JONES, 6-3/210, DB
COLLEGE: [URL='http://herosports.com/colleges/teams/richmond-mens-football']Richmond

PROJECTION: Third round

STATS: Last year alone, school record tying 9 INTs, 97 tackles, 15 passes broken up

THE SKINNY: An all-american last year, this Florida native led the nation with 9 interceptions and his play was instrumental in helping his team reach the FCS final four, and his injury against North Dakota State was a turning point in the semifinal. He has an eye for the ball and can also pop the opponent when needed.

[/URL]
http://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2017/02/david-jones-overcomes-injury-to-pursue-his-nfl-dream

Now ranked as the 11th best safety in the nation, Jones is projected to be a seventh-round draft pick, according to CBS Sports.

“I definitely think David has the athletic ability to play at the NFL level,” Lemond Johnson, Jones' friend and former teammate, said. “He is really smart and he watched more film than anybody.”

Trott says that Jones has the potential to succeed in the NFL if he goes to the right team.

“He should go to a team that needs an athletic type safety. …And then it depends on the team and how many safeties they need," he said.

http://bloggingdirty.com/2016/11/21/2017-falcons-nfl-draft-preview-safety/6/

Round 5: David Jones, Richmond (6-2, 210lbs)
Jones, a redshirt senior out of Richmond, has been a major player for the Spiders in his time on campus. In his first season in 2013, he recorded 36 tackles and his first career interception as he became a component of the Richmond defense. As a redshirt sophomore, Jones only played in 9 games, but he still totaled 33 tackles and 2 interceptions on the year. 2015 was unarguably has best year, where he led the entire FCS with 9 interceptions. He tied an NCAA record with 4 interceptions in one game against Albany. He also finished second on the team with 97 tackles last year. This year he has 29 tackles and 2 interceptions. Jones’ size will likely lead him to a solid slotting in next year’s NFL draft.


Strengths: Quick to diagnose plays, especially in the run game. Menacing presence in the secondary due to his size and strength. A strong tackler for one of the better FCS teams in the game. Great ball skills, shown by his 14 career interceptions (led the FCS with 9 in 2015). Not afraid to throw around his body and play all game long. Matches up well in man coverage with tight ends. Good team leader who is a communicator for the Spiders.

Cody may make it....So may Brian Randolph...my personal favorite to earn a starting job. Hell, Mo may go right back there again...but I know Joyner will NOT be back there...in his contract year.

 

[So Ram]

Joyner at FS please! As long as he faces the ball, he's pretty damn good.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYGVYyOhtE

What it shows is how he plays close to the line of scrimmage., & also what a playmaker he can be if in the right position. Looked like he was playing more of a SS spot than a FS position.
My thought process is that at FS his height would not have matter as much , especially in a Greg Williams style of defense. He always called the FS the last line of defense. He also loves to play his Safeties deep . To me it never made sense last season especially not to have Joyner playing that position . At least in some form or another to see how he would play. The Rams never really had a true FS in Cody & Alexander who never had NFL experience there either .

That is just IMHO ?

 

[So Ram]

Not a high choice Boni.....Look at who we've visited....Son of bum likes DB's that can run...ooh, that rhymes!

http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...hmond-fs-david-jones.49048/page-2#post-885548

David Jones
http://www.thecollegianur.com/article/2017/02/david-jones-overcomes-injury-to-pursue-his-nfl-dream


http://bloggingdirty.com/2016/11/21/2017-falcons-nfl-draft-preview-safety/6/

Cody may make it....So may Brian Randolph...my personal favorite to earn a starting job. Hell, Mo may go right back there again...but I know Joyner will NOT be back there...in his contract year.

How do you know this about Joyner not playing FS ?? I don't know either way right now. I just think FS might fit him best. I'm not the biggest fan of J. Joyner because of his lack of size. He seems to be in the right spot & the Ref's pick on him ,because of it. Maybe he gets nervous or frustrated , but always seems to be getting beat , or just losses form ??

I like EJ Gaines playing more inside like he did his rookie year , when Joyner got hurt.

 

[LACHAMP46]

How do you know this about Joyner not playing FS ??

Son of bum likes DB's that can really run....

I once coached a kid...Troy Nolan in pop warner...he was on the Houston team a couple years ago...I think he had a 3 int game in preseason. As soon as bum got there....ran the guy outta town I believe. Nolan was a good kid too...went to ASU...but he also ran a 4.6.

So, do I know....NO....but I have a lot of ....empirical evidence that suggests this to be true.

 

[Dxmissile]

I like Joyner but he isn't a free safety. He is definitely more hybrid for a strong safety CB and linebacker. The guy can cover get off blocks and he can blitz. I definitely can see Phillips using him in a variety of roles for this defense but him playing that Darian Stewart role I don't think you use him to the best of his ability by playing him at that position.

 

[Legatron4]

Joyner at FS please! As long as he faces the ball, he's pretty damn good.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYGVYyOhtE

I had no idea Joyner could return kicks. Why don't we try him there?

 

[Stl2La]

I had no idea Joyner could return kicks. Why don't we try him there?

Tavon has that covered and did a great job. No reason to try him on punt returns. I will be interested to see who takes over kickoff return duties though.

 

[Soul Surfer]

My Dark Horse candidate for free safety is Marqui Christian.
The Cardinals tried to sneak him through waivers after picking him up in the fifth round last year.

Arians admitted that was a big mistake.


Classic overachiever wherever he's played.

 

[jrry32]

Son of bum likes DB's that can really run....

I once coached a kid...Troy Nolan in pop warner...he was on the Houston team a couple years ago...I think he had a 3 int game in preseason. As soon as bum got there....ran the guy outta town I believe. Nolan was a good kid too...went to ASU...but he also ran a 4.6.

So, do I know....NO....but I have a lot of ....empirical evidence that suggests this to be true.

Wade's safeties in his past few stops:
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=75646&draftyear=2010&genpos=SS
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=66973&draftyear=2010&genpos=SS
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=72826&draftyear=2009&genpos=FS
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=56127&draftyear=2006&genpos=
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=91031&draftyear=2013&genpos=FS
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=54940&draftyear=2005&genpos=FS
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=753&draftyear=2003&genpos=FS

Suffice to say that LaMarcus Joyner's speed (4.55 40) falls right in line with that group of players. Your empirical evidence that Joyner lacks the speed to play FS is lacking imo.

After 40 yards the difference between a 4.6 and a 4.4 time is about 2-3 feet.
Earl Thomas (click me) Combine & 40
Tyron Mathieu 40 results as well

The only thing these 3 have in common is relative size. Different athletes. I will say, Honey Badger has been very injury prone....I wonder does his 4 bench reps at the combine have anything to do with that?

No.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Ok @jrry32
I'll play

Darrian Stewart- 4.50

Darian Stewart, SS, South Carolina
Height: 5-11. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.64.
Combine 40 Time: 4.50.

TJ Ward - 4.46

T.J. Ward, S, Oregon
Height: 5-10. Weight: 211.
Projected 40 Time: 4.52.
Combine 40 Time: 4.57.
Pro Day 40 Time: 4.46.

Lets just focus on these two....as I also show you a quote from Walter Football in 2010

For the second year in a row, the official times at the Combine were screwed up.

That's two guys...on the same team now...who ran 4.5's at the combine....and TJ was so pissed he ran his again and bettered it.

Glover Quinn...4.50
Danieal Manning....4.46
Gerald Sensabaugh.....4.44

Ken Hamlin & DJ Swearinger look like...well, they settled, not the norm of what son of bum finds.

Joyner....4.55
Interesting that he ran a 4.47 at his pro day....hmmm....I guess I stand corrected. Except his play matches this assessment
http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/lamarcus-joyner?id=2543492

WEAKNESSES
Average athlete. Tight-hipped and rounds off breaks -- not sudden. Lacks foot speed to carry receivers vertically from the slot and is seldom placed in situations where he can be distressed in downfield coverage. Lacks size and stature for press coverage. Can be out-quicked by shifty slot receivers. Marginal recovery speed and catch-up burst when he gets caught peeking. Struggles to match up with size and speed in man coverage. Makes mental mistakes too much in banjo coverage and struggles to sort out bunch sets. Does not have a body ideally built to withstand a 16-game season.
DRAFT PROJECTION
Rounds 4-5
BOTTOM LINE
A good college football player lacking ideal physical traits for the NFL game. Functioned well as a short-hole, nickel zone corner for a national championship team and was well-schemed to play the ball in front of him and turned loose to attack. Classic 'tweener who could compete in situational packages, but is vulnerable to be mismatched against. Will need to make his mark on special teams and in the return game to carve a role. Has a make-it attitude and winning mentality that could allow him to overcome his physical limitations.

Ok....You say the 4 bench reps have nothing to do with a player having multiple injuries....well, I'd guess it does.

 

[OldSchool]

Good lord still arguing about this? Here ya go boys.

 

[BonifayRam]

This 5-8 194 pound DB Lamarcus Joyner is not an unknown athlete to the football world. His pass football history does have some interesting nuggets.
https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/rankings/rank-2403
USA Today High School All-American (2009)

At FSU he started 41 games never missed a game. As a sophomore,Second-team All-ACC (2011). LJ as a Jr & Sr. 2× First-team All-ACC (2012, 2013). Consensus All-American (2013)Consensus All-American (2013) / BCS national champion (2013). As a true freshmen he was the top reserve safety when he saw action in all 14 games. never missed a game in 55 NCAA games.3 seasons as a safety & 1 seasons @ CB. So most all of this evidence of some serious stuff awarded & won came when he played & started @ SAFETY! So how can anyone really think that LJ is not a true safety I like to see that evidence presented. After 41 games as a accommodated NCAA safety.

So LJ is drafted by Fisher who immediately moves LJ into the CB slot Nickle position & now its official Fisher says it & the world follows LJ is primarily a Nickle corner & secondarily a reserve outside corner. End of story LJ is a corner lets move on now move it Fisher has spoken. Now this old Wade guy comes in & in preliminary planning alludes to LJ getting a full-time secondary starting position not as corner...who does this Wade guy think he is.

It appears to me that this roster has some solid Nickle candidates to be tried in the Nickle like EJ Gaines & Blake Countess maybe others thus giving Wade a chance to return LJ back to his past college position with Mo Alexander @ Strong Safety.

I find all this concern over LJ's 40 timed speed & lack of height interesting but if that's such a worry there's LJ buddy Cody Davis who is 6-2 206 pounder who is a super fast safety with 4.41 40 speed, Cody has 41 1/2-inch vertical & 10-foot-3 broad jump. a short shuttle time was 4.00 seconds and he had a 6.78-second three-cone drill. Cody also did well with 15 lifts of 225 pounds on the bench press.

So together between LJ & his buddy Cody returning to work together that deep safety post well. If LJ has a hard time at times with a player working over his short comings there's Cody! We also fully know that LJ is fully capable of being a back up to Mo Alexander if need be so it sure looks like a great move at this time to me.