Jaw's 2014 QB Rankings: Bradford #24

[Angry Ram]

There is SO MUCH MORE to playing QB than throwing the ball. Decision making, extending plays, reading defenses all come into play. Sam has great arm talent. It is rest of his game that has been lacking. That is not just from looking at stats, that is from watching him play.

Jaworski's criticisms are spot on, IMHO. One could argue the ranking could be a few slots higher (based on potential not production), but around 20 makes sense to me.

It's up to Sam to change that.

I disagree with his lacking of extending plays and decision making.

The fact is, aside from WR miscommunication and getting his arm hit, Sam Bradford doesn't turn it over. His rookie year was the only time he turned it over, and down the stretch that year he only had 1 TD to like 7 or 8 INTs. Yet he got praised for it, got ROTY etc.

After, his TD/INT ratio has been really good.

RE Extending plays, he's done it when he's needed to. That's one thing so weird when it comes to Sam Bradford. Whenever the offense does make a great play, it usually is executed and there's no need for extension. But those opportunities have been so limited. In other words, a play is a success or a failure. There's no fail to success or vice versa with him.

Now reading defenses is something you or I or anyone else can't definitively say whether or not he's good at them. Only the coaches and Sam knows that. Personally, I don't think it's an issue but reading defenses is a continuous learning process as defenses are always changing.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

That you consider responsibilities "tasks" is curious to me.

It isn't just a task for the QB to decide whether a play should be run as called or to audible out of it. It is everyone else's task to run the play that the QB is responsible for calling though. Responsibility>task.

I still get the feeling that you're having a hard time agreeing that the QB position is more important than any other positions because you're interpreting it as the QB position is more important than all the other positions combined.

To interpret that is to assume that there is more responsibility in making the call than executing the call.

To be able to read that the linebacker is blitzing and to tell the running back before the snap that he needs to run to the flat as opposed to a wheel route is great, but it means bupkis if the back doesn't run that pattern effectively. Both players are equally responsible for ensuring that the play is executed well, which is really what matters, and how I would interpret "responsibility."

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Equally accountable, yes. Equally important, no. A good/great QB is far more important than a gunner or a blocking TE or any number of other positions.

All 11 positions are equally accountable to do what they are supposed to be doing and any one position can cause a play to break down but the responsibilities of the QB go far beyond the other positions in most cases.

I agree. If all positions were equally important all positions would be equally compensated.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

I disagree with his lacking of extending plays and decision making.

The fact is, aside from WR miscommunication and getting his arm hit, Sam Bradford doesn't turn it over. His rookie year was the only time he turned it over, and down the stretch that year he only had 1 TD to like 7 or 8 INTs. Yet he got praised for it, got ROTY etc.

After, his TD/INT ratio has been really good.

RE Extending plays, he's done it when he's needed to. That's one thing so weird when it comes to Sam Bradford. Whenever the offense does make a great play, it usually is executed and there's no need for extension. But those opportunities have been so limited. In other words, a play is a success or a failure. There's no fail to success or vice versa with him.

Now reading defenses is something you or I or anyone else can't definitively say whether or not he's good at them. Only the coaches and Sam knows that. Personally, I don't think it's an issue but reading defenses is a continuous learning process as defenses are always changing.

Sam has been good at not throwing interceptions.

He has NOT been good at making plays to convert 3rd downs.

Now you may come back and blame that on everyone else on the team, and surely they all play a role in it. So does Sam.

Criticism of his play to date is based in fact, not fantasy. He needs to play better. Then talking heads everywhere will talk about how good Sam is...

It is up to him. I am sure Sam would agree with me if asked.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

I agree. If all positions were equally important all positions would be equally compensated.

I think in any walk of life, financial cost (or market value) is more closely associated with rarity than importance (intrinsic value).

Elite quarterbacks are more rare than elite players at other positions. I would say that's why they're paid more. That rarity, does not to me, indicate value.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

I think in any walk of life, financial cost (or market value) is more closely associated with rarity than importance (intrinsic value).

Elite quarterbacks are more rare than elite players at other positions. I would say that's why they're paid more. That rarity, does not to me, indicate value.

The law of supply and demand does apply, for sure. One must question: why? Surely there are more 6-3 220lb guys that run a 4.8 and have a strong arm than there are 6-6 320lb guys that bench 225 30+ times and run a 4.8? I contend that athletes like Greg Robinson or Robert Quinn are much more rare than Sam Bradford.

I believe it is because playing QB is REALLY HARD.

That is why people who can succeed at it are so rare.

It is also why they are so important.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

The law of supply and demand does apply, for sure. One must question: why? Surely there are more 6-3 220lb guys that run a 4.8 and have a strong arm than there are 6-6 320lb guys that bench 225 30+ times and run a 4.8? I contend that athletes like Greg Robinson or Robert Quinn are much more rare than Sam Bradford.

I believe it is because playing QB is REALLY HARD.

That is why people who can succeed at it are so rare.

It is also why they are so important.

Sure it's hard.

Doing a paint job that looks nice for an expensive sports car manufacturer is also hard. They're usually going to have more tasks involved, be more well compensated and their work is going to cost the end user more than the people who design nuts that keep your wheels on the car.

But if you think those nuts aren't as important as the guy who does the paint job because of it, you try driving a car without wheels.

 

[moklerman]

To interpret that is to assume that there is more responsibility in making the call than executing the call.

To be able to read that the linebacker is blitzing and to tell the running back before the snap that he needs to run to the flat as opposed to a wheel route is great, but it means bupkis if the back doesn't run that pattern effectively. Both players are equally responsible for ensuring that the play is executed well, which is really what matters, and how I would interpret "responsibility."

Well, isn't there more responsibility in calling a play than in executing it? More responsibility in identifying the defense? Making the adjustments and calls for all the other players?

It's not only the QB's job to do all of that but he has to be a part of the execution of the play as well. The one who is making the decisions of how and what everyone else will do is obviously more responsible for the outcome than those who are just following orders.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

Well, isn't there more responsibility in calling a play than in executing it? More responsibility in identifying the defense? Making the adjustments and calls for all the other players?

It's not only the QB's job to do all of that but he has to be a part of the execution of the play as well. The one who is making the decisions of how and what everyone else will do is obviously more responsible for the outcome than those who are just following orders.

Even if quarterbacks were solely tasked for audibles at the LOS (and they're not always, centers are in a lot of instances tasked for line calls, in other instances it's left tackles who see blitzes coming and backing off, you see instances where other players are tasked for sight adjustments, middle linebackers are tasked with adjustments on defense) the calling of it is not, IMO, inherently "more responsible" than KNOWING what the adjustment is, and at the end of the day, to me, responsibility lies in executing it.

If you're in sales, you can KNOW what clients you're supposed to call, what kinds of conversations you're supposed to have, what your activity is supposed to be. You can perform this activity, but you're not responsible for this activity until you sell something.

 

[AZRamsFan93]

Sure it's hard.

Doing a paint job that looks nice for an expensive sports car manufacturer is also hard. They're usually going to have more tasks involved, be more well compensated and their work is going to cost the end user more than the people who design nuts that keep your wheels on the car.

But if you think those nuts aren't as important as the guy who does the paint job because of it, you try driving a car without wheels.

I get your point, and I don't argue the fact (IMHO) that football is the ultimate team sport.

I still think that QB is most important position - not just in football - but in all team sports.

More important than the pitcher in baseball, the point guard in basketball, and the goalie in hockey.

It is my opinion. There are others like it, but this one is mine.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

I get your point, and I don't argue the fact (IMHO) that football is the ultimate team sport.

I still think that QB is most important position - not just in football - but in all team sports.

More important than the pitcher in baseball, the point guard in basketball, and the goalie in hockey.

It is my opinion. There are others like it, but this one is mine.

Ha! Fair nuff man, we get to depart in amicable disagreement.

 

[bluesjoc]

Sam has been good at not throwing interceptions.

He has NOT been good at making plays to convert 3rd downs.

Now you may come back and blame that on everyone else on the team, and surely they all play a role in it. So does Sam.

Criticism of his play to date is based in fact, not fantasy. He needs to play better. Then talking heads everywhere will talk about how good Sam is...

It is up to him. I am sure Sam would agree with me if asked.

 

[Angry Ram]

Sam has been good at not throwing interceptions.

He has NOT been good at making plays to convert 3rd downs.

Now you may come back and blame that on everyone else on the team, and surely they all play a role in it. So does Sam.

Criticism of his play to date is based in fact, not fantasy. He needs to play better. Then talking heads everywhere will talk about how good Sam is...

It is up to him. I am sure Sam would agree with me if asked.

Well, duh. I'm not disagreeing with you. I just think some of the criticism is unwarranted.

 

[moklerman]

Even if quarterbacks were solely tasked for audibles at the LOS (and they're not always, centers are in a lot of instances tasked for line calls, in other instances it's left tackles who see blitzes coming and backing off, you see instances where other players are tasked for sight adjustments, middle linebackers are tasked with adjustments on defense) the calling of it is not, IMO, inherently "more responsible" than KNOWING what the adjustment is, and at the end of the day, to me, responsibility lies in executing it.

If you're in sales, you can KNOW what clients you're supposed to call, what kinds of conversations you're supposed to have, what your activity is supposed to be. You can perform this activity, but you're not responsible for this activity until you sell something.

But your analogy fails in that a salesman is not the equivalent of a QB. A QB's more like a manager, orchestrating what his staff of salesman are doing and the direction they should be taking and implementing what the president(coach) wants for the company(GM/Owner)

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

But your analogy fails in that a salesman is not the equivalent of a QB. A QB's more like a manager, orchestrating what his staff of salesman are doing and the direction they should be taking and implementing what the president(coach) wants for the company(GM/Owner)

I don't see it that way. I see them more as coworkers. A quarterback doesn't have the ability to hire and fire a teammate (at least, no team I've ever heard operates that way). They don't set individual goals that their teammates are financially compensated for. They don't set the agenda (design plays, they only are, in some cases only partially, tasked with adjusting them). They aren't position coaches that are specifically assigned with fostering the specific developments with their roles as players. Is some cases, they take accountability for motivating a team vision but it's certainly not a job prerequisite.

If a quarterback had to do all this, your analogy might make sense.

If a team had a quarterback who was an OC, who architected the plays in the offseason, made the play call, was primarily responsible for the growth and development of all of his teammates, could fire them for poor job performance and incentivize them for a good job, had primary responsibility for recruiting them, etc. your analogy might hold water. But they don't do all that.

In some cases, but not all, they're the only ones on offense that call audibles. That to me, does not a management position make.

 

[moklerman]

I don't see it that way. I see them more as coworkers. A quarterback doesn't have the ability to hire and fire a teammate (at least, no team I've ever heard operates that way). They don't set individual goals that their teammates are financially compensated for. They don't set the agenda (design plays, they only are, in some cases only partially, tasked with adjusting them). They aren't position coaches that are specifically assigned with fostering the specific developments with their roles as players. Is some cases, they take accountability for motivating a team vision but it's certainly not a job prerequisite.

If a quarterback had to do all this, your analogy might make sense.

If a team had a quarterback who was an OC, who architected the plays in the offseason, made the play call, was primarily responsible for the growth and development of all of his teammates, could fire them for poor job performance and incentivize them for a good job, had primary responsibility for recruiting them, etc. your analogy might hold water. But they don't do all that.

In some cases, but not all, they're the only ones on offense that call audibles. That to me, does not a management position make.

It wasn't my analogy, I was just trying to correct yours.

And you're way too invested in minimizing a QB's role on an NFL team. If you want to consider a starting NFL QB the same way that a kicker or punt team lineman is valued, more power to you.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

It wasn't my analogy, I was just trying to correct yours.

And you're way too invested in minimizing a QB's role on an NFL team. If you want to consider a starting NFL QB the same way that a kicker or punt team lineman is valued, more power to you.

That's ok man, we all have our opinions. I respect your's. I just disagree. Have a good weekend.