Jared Goff vs Vikings (Analysis) ~Matt Waldman

[RamsOfCastamere]

I'm not gonna repeat myself so read some of my other post on this thread. Tight ends don't just catch the ball.

I know that. I'm just saying, the most criticism that Higbee gets is for dropping the ball, not for the other responsibilities. It doesn't take three years to catch. He should be doing that now.

 

[jrry32]

not really. put it out in front of him towards the sideline and let him chase it. he's always gonna beat rhodes in a foot race. waynes dropped off early sensing he was gonna go woods.



smith had 5 yards on woods before he slowed down to intercept the ball. nobody was beating him deep on that play.

.

If Smith and Woods were even, Woods beats him with ease. The fact that he still had some depth is what makes it close. But I take my chances with Woods tracking the ball against any defender in a footrace.

Waynes is going to come back downhill once Goff throws that football. Goff has to put air under it because of the LBs underneath, he has to lead Watkins because of the CB in his hip pocket, and he can't put too much air under it because of the threat of Waynes. That's an incredibly challenging throw. If he makes any error, it might get picked. That was true of the deep shot as well, but from the way he was positioned, it was easier to try to step into a deep ball than have to reset and step into a throw to the sideline. Simply put, he didn't have time to set himself up for that throw.

 

[LARams_1963]

Honestly, forgive me for not reading every post. My premier thought is..... Goff is one of the best composed QB's I have ever watched. Especially taking into consideration he is a freshly turned 23 yr old. Is he perfect? NO.....does he have the right mentality/demeanor? HELL YES!!

 

[kurtfaulk]

Simply put, he didn't have time to set himself up for that throw.

That's something we can both agree on.

.

 

[Jacobarch]

I know that. I'm just saying, the most criticism that Higbee gets is for dropping the ball, not for the other responsibilities. It doesn't take three years to catch. He should be doing that now.

So we should sit Cupp too right ?
You know Higbee and Cupp both came out of college and we're known for their sure handedness. Young guys get the dropskis all of the time it's completely normal.

 

[bluecoconuts]

I discount most of this positive review of Goff, when I can't find one reference to his being a 2-read (in some cases less) QB at this stage of his development. I'm fairly sure this will improve, and he's shown signs of it already on plays earlier this season, but most of the time it is as if he is counting on the design of the play and his read on the D (pre-snap) to determine where he's going before the snap and doesn't seem to adjust.

McVay has talked about Goff making reads all the time. At one point he was raving about a play and goes "This is Goff's 5th read and he makes that play!" or something like that. Point being that McVay was saying that Goff was on his 5th read.

So that's probably a pretty good source..

 

[jrry32]

McVay has talked about Goff making reads all the time. At one point he was raving about a play and goes "This is Goff's 5th read and he makes that play!" or something like that. Point being that McVay was saying that Goff was on his 5th read.

So that's probably a pretty good source..

Don't trust your eyes. Don't trust the coaching staff. Don't trust the All-22 film. It's all wrong. This is a two-read offense. Goff only goes through more than two progressions when he's trying to trick the opposing team.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yX_1gJ_51M

 

[Rmfnlt]

.

all these videos are actually making me feel better. it shows that on alot of the plays it was just poor execution. the running plays just needed better blocking from tes and wrs and on passing plays jared missing an open guy. every game he will improve in that area.

that plus the fumble on the one yard line and a crucial drop on 3rd down from kupp on the cusp of their red zone shows the rams weren't far off winning that game. the young guys will improve as they get more experience. i reckon they can beat them if they have to play them again in the playoffs.

.

This would be my take as well... they weren't that far off... better execution on a few plays and they might have won it... they were still very much in the game going into the 4th.

Past is past... onto NO now.

 

[UKram]

You know what I’ve come to realise ..

people killing higs about his hands could the be one defending tavon
Those saying he should be doing so and so are the ones screaming that player X or
Y needs more time to develop
Those lambasting Goff are the ones screaming Quinn still has something to offer
Those screaming Kupp needs to sit are the ones holding onto to the hope Micheal Thomas as something

Basically it all comes down to favourites and personal preference and luckily for us (well me anyway ) McVay’s opinion is the only one that matters

 

[PhillyRam]

You know what I’ve come to realise ..

people killing higs about his hands could the be one defending tavon
Those saying he should be doing so and so are the ones screaming that player X or
Y needs more time to develop
Those lambasting Goff are the ones screaming Quinn still has something to offer
Those screaming Kupp needs to sit are the ones holding onto to the hope Micheal Thomas as something

Basically it all comes down to favourites and personal preference and luckily for us (well me anyway ) McVay’s opinion is the only one that matters

Never understood the "favorite player can do no wrong" syndrome.

Going back to the "Great Warnerites vs Bulgerites War of 2003".... Many saw at least at that point in time Warner was struggling whether it be grip issues, battered QB syndrome, whatever, but he simply was not effective.

I loved what Warner did, but it was clear by the eyeball test and stats that he was having najor issues, but some were downright nasty about Bulger because he replaced their idol.

Now obviously to Warner's credit he fixed himself by wearing a glove on his throwing hand and the wobbly passes and fumbles went away. Likely it also helped him to take a break for a few years as he took a beating in his last few years under Martz.

Anyway, some fans like me just want to see whoever is effective to play. Afterall it is all about "playing to win the game" and who cares who is playing as long as they play well.

 

[RedRam]

Who needs to wait for the

:rolllaugh:

 

[UKram]

Never understood the "favorite player can do no wrong" syndrome.

Going back to the "Great Warnerites vs Bulgerites War of 2003".... Many saw at least at that point in time Warner was struggling whether it be grip issues, battered QB syndrome, whatever, but he simply was not effective.

I loved what Warner did, but it was clear by the eyeball test and stats that he was having najor issues, but some were downright nasty about Bulger because he replaced their idol.

Now obviously to Warner's credit he fixed himself by wearing a glove on his throwing hand and the wobbly passes and fumbles went away. Likely it also helped him to take a break for a few years as he took a beating in his last few years under Martz.

Anyway, some fans like me just want to see whoever is effective to play. Afterall it is all about "playing to win the game" and who cares who is playing as long as they play well.

We all have favourite players ... (hell I bought me a gurley jersey last year ) the first since I got my self a long 72 jersey his rookie year

He was bad last year ... soooooo bad ... but there were other factors as to why he was bad I like to take ariables in account as to why someone isn’t productive until the only logical explanation is they suck

Some fans will only see the bad .. especially if their favourite is on the pine ... or cut pre season .. so they have to dog on their guys replacement to justify their guy is still a “beast“

These guys are in the nfl ... they are machines and shouldnt make mistakes they are robots programmed to perform to optimal performance

It’ doesn’t matter that they are rookies (any from the last fisher draft class last year is a rookie to me ) new coaches new system new culture ... McVay and the rams spoiled some of ya asses this year ... some are scared to get out of “I TOLD YA SO “ corner on certain players and holding onto to hope that players riding the Pine or Undrafted rookies on the PS would future HOFers If only McVay see what they saw

Gone are the days of mr irrelevant being our starting MLBer .... for every marques colston there’s a1000 6th/7th rounder selling insurance telling of the days he made an nfl teams practice squad

 

[PARAM]

Goff still needs to get better. He's come a long way, but he's not quite where we need him to be just yet. Good thing is there are a few more really tough games for him to condition himself for the playoffs in, and if we can win a couple of them this team will definitely get in.

Real happy with his development, but we got our butts kicked Sunday across the board offensively. Need the kid to play better and I'm confident if we have to go into Minnesota in the playoffs he will look a lot better.

True. There is a lot of room to improve but he's come miles and miles since last year. Game #17. It's important that we remember that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.....he's a lot like Eli and I don't mean because he played 7 games in his rookie year. Eli had the Giants at 11-5 his second year, though he only sported a 75.9 QB rating. It regressed to 8-8 the following year but in year 4, Superbowl Champs. I believe Goff (and the Rams) are ahead of the schedule, thanks to McVay.

 

[Merlin]

You know what I’ve come to realise ..

people killing higs about his hands could the be one defending tavon
Those saying he should be doing so and so are the ones screaming that player X or
Y needs more time to develop
Those lambasting Goff are the ones screaming Quinn still has something to offer
Those screaming Kupp needs to sit are the ones holding onto to the hope Micheal Thomas as something

Basically it all comes down to favourites and personal preference and luckily for us (well me anyway ) McVay’s opinion is the only one that matters

I suppose I am guilty of killing Higs, but it's not personal. I just don't think the dude is good enough, and I don't see him developing. During camp some of us stood there and watched him dropping contested catches and we discussed it. Since that time he's exactly the same guy: freakish big and athletic with suspect hands. One defender on him, in his space, and he can't bring the ball in. And as a Higs basher I'm not a guy who has some agenda through liking Tavon.

Because I also am guilty of bashing Tavon, at least according to some folks. But again I am no coach, just going from what I see on the field from camp on through the season. He has talent and some functionality, but don't see him as a fit for this offense and he's a dumb player, in that he makes mistakes and lacks the kinds of instincts and smart play a guy like McVay prefers.

Some posters have their favorites of course, but I do think the conversations have been pretty fair with these guys. Higs and Tavon deserve the criticism they've gotten. Quinn deserves the criticism and doubt fans have shown with him, the dude looks like he's ready for a damn wheelchair and he's not even thirty yet. Is he going full speed? I have no idea but he's not the same guy. I just don't see anything wrong with discussing these guys when they're not getting it done.

Kupp has been hit and miss. He's been critical to our offense, but the rookie shows up sometimes and that's ok. I see no problems with some fans calling him out on some bad drops. The one vs Seattle would have been a helluva catch given the angle the ball was coming in, on a rope, but I still expect him to make that catch. I want receivers to catch the MFing ball.

Goff, meanwhile, is basically a rookie QB still, given that he didn't learn squat his first season, and before the season my main concern with him was one thing: keep the INTs down. He has done that, and it's a big reason why we're 7-3. But I also think defending him like he's arrived is silly, because no matter how much we love the kid he's still got a long ways to go to be that perennial MVP type QB who is going to ensure we're in it. He's not elite yet, and we should be able to discuss that without folks acting like he's being bashed.

Lastly, saying McVay's opinion is the only one that matters is really meaningless. We all know that. This is why we collect on fan boards to discuss this stuff right? I can't really carry on a good football conversation with my wife, and often even some of my RL friends aren't as hardcore as I am in that way.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Goff, meanwhile, is basically a rookie QB still, given that he didn't learn squat his first season, and before the season my main concern with him was one thing: keep the INTs down. He has done that, and it's a big reason why we're 7-3. But I also think defending him like he's arrived is silly, because no matter how much we love the kid he's still got a long ways to go to be that perennial MVP type QB who is going to ensure we're in it. He's not elite yet, and we should be able to discuss that without folks acting like he's being bashed.

 

[PhillyRam]

I

I suppose I am guilty of killing Higs, but it's not personal. I just don't think the dude is good enough, and I don't see him developing. During camp some of us stood there and watched him dropping contested catches and we discussed it. Since that time he's exactly the same guy: freakish big and athletic with suspect hands. One defender on him, in his space, and he can't bring the ball in. And as a Higs basher I'm not a guy who has some agenda through liking Tavon.

Because I also am guilty of bashing Tavon, at least according to some folks. But again I am no coach, just going from what I see on the field from camp on through the season. He has talent and some functionality, but don't see him as a fit for this offense and he's a dumb player, in that he makes mistakes and lacks the kinds of instincts and smart play a guy like McVay prefers.

Some posters have their favorites of course, but I do think the conversations have been pretty fair with these guys. Higs and Tavon deserve the criticism they've gotten. Quinn deserves the criticism and doubt fans have shown with him, the dude looks like he's ready for a damn wheelchair and he's not even thirty yet. Is he going full speed? I have no idea but he's not the same guy. I just don't see anything wrong with discussing these guys when they're not getting it done.

Kupp has been hit and miss. He's been critical to our offense, but the rookie shows up sometimes and that's ok. I see no problems with some fans calling him out on some bad drops. The one vs Seattle would have been a helluva catch given the angle the ball was coming in, on a rope, but I still expect him to make that catch. I want receivers to catch the MFing ball.

Goff, meanwhile, is basically a rookie QB still, given that he didn't learn squat his first season, and before the season my main concern with him was one thing: keep the INTs down. He has done that, and it's a big reason why we're 7-3. But I also think defending him like he's arrived is silly, because no matter how much we love the kid he's still got a long ways to go to be that perennial MVP type QB who is going to ensure we're in it. He's not elite yet, and we should be able to discuss that without folks acting like he's being bashed.

Lastly, saying McVay's opinion is the only one that matters is really meaningless. We all know that. This is why we collect on fan boards to discuss this stuff right? I can't really carry on a good football conversation with my wife, and often even some of my RL friends aren't as hardcore as I am in that way.

I don't think anyone is saying Goff is elite or MVP level. I think I would summarize my opinion as being very encouraged with his progress as I was concerned he would have double digit plus turnovers as most young QBs deal with, especially when learning a new offense.

I think many of us just feel that he is exceeding our expectations or maybe just alleviating our fears a bit, but more importantly for the 1st time in a longtime this organization has a promising young QB that has done nothing this year to dampen our increasing expectations.

 

[shovelpass]

I don't think anyone is saying Goff is elite or MVP level

The person who made this thread sure has. Well, only when Goff has played well.

 

[UKram]

The person who made this thread sure has. Well, only when Goff has played well.

to be fair he pretty labelled the guy a bust in pre season so there is that

 

[UKram]

I suppose I am guilty of killing Higs, but it's not personal. I just don't think the dude is good enough, and I don't see him developing. During camp some of us stood there and watched him dropping contested catches and we discussed it. Since that time he's exactly the same guy: freakish big and athletic with suspect hands. One defender on him, in his space, and he can't bring the ball in. And as a Higs basher I'm not a guy who has some agenda through liking Tavon.

This is exactly what i mean.. i know its not personal but its the hypocrisy that makes me laugh ... if you like the guy as a player you're willing to give him time to see him develop if you don't wont (and when i say "you" i don't mean you directly im speaking in broad general usage of the word you )

Because I also am guilty of bashing Tavon, at least according to some folks. But again I am no coach, just going from what I see on the field from camp on through the season. He has talent and some functionality, but don't see him as a fit for this offense and he's a dumb player, in that he makes mistakes and lacks the kinds of instincts and smart play a guy like McVay prefers.

I also think Tavon is done personally he has had what 4-5 years and hast done much of anything ..but i was willing to give him this season to see what mcvay and co could do and im disappointed in his real production against his decoy production

Some posters have their favorites of course, but I do think the conversations have been pretty fair with these guys. Higs and Tavon deserve the criticism they've gotten. Quinn deserves the criticism and doubt fans have shown with him, the dude looks like he's ready for a damn wheelchair and he's not even thirty yet. Is he going full speed? I have no idea but he's not the same guy. I just don't see anything wrong with discussing these guys when they're not getting it done.

Higs is still essentially a Rookie im willing to give him a a year or two to see how he comes on thats all im saying lets take in the variables when judging players (which if you like the kid you will give him time if you dont you wont )
As for Quinn absolutely stick a fork in him he is done ..i watched the first half of the coaches tape last night and made notes on Quinn when he was rushing the passer (i mean basic notes) ill be watching the second half tonight and making a post on it at some point .... give you a clue ..its bad

Kupp has been hit and miss. He's been critical to our offense, but the rookie shows up sometimes and that's ok. I see no problems with some fans calling him out on some bad drops. The one vs Seattle would have been a helluva catch given the angle the ball was coming in, on a rope, but I still expect him to make that catch. I want receivers to catch the MFing ball.

Kupp probably expected to make catch but even issac and torry droped a few here and there and i see no isse with calling him out on the drops ...its when people start screaming to bench him and start someone who has a "high Ceiling" or "huge upside" *cough* Brian Quick *cough* or an undrafted rookie who if they had any chops at all would be starting regardless

Goff, meanwhile, is basically a rookie QB still, given that he didn't learn squat his first season, and before the season my main concern with him was one thing: keep the INTs down. He has done that, and it's a big reason why we're 7-3. But I also think defending him like he's arrived is silly, because no matter how much we love the kid he's still got a long ways to go to be that perennial MVP type QB who is going to ensure we're in it. He's not elite yet, and we should be able to discuss that without folks acting like he's being bashed.

but thats the thing he is being bashed ... i know he inst Elite no one to my recollection has claimed he IS elite ..just the potential to be elite buy he has having a great season by any measurement ...some people instead of thinking how far he has to go SHOULD be thinking about how far he has come from that rattled kid from last year...but some are so stuck in their Goff is a bust Wentz was better..we shoulda taken him gets real old real quick (and thats coming from someone who wanted wentz)

 

[Merlin]

This is exactly what i mean.. i know its not personal but its the hypocrisy that makes me laugh ... if you like the guy as a player you're willing to give him time to see him develop if you don't wont (and when i say "you" i don't mean you directly im speaking in broad general usage of the word you )

How is it hypocrisy to say that he's just a guy? To think he's not special because ten games in to season 2 he's still not showing an ability to catch the ball? If he does end up being an elite player it's not the first time I've been wrong, but right now I am not seeing it.

But it's all good man. We'll agree to disagree and I'll hope you're right.