It's going to be hard to pass on Clowney

[Sum1]

What's the difference?

To me the difference is that it's always nice to have the highest pick possible because you have the ability to draft whichever player you want. However, when teams start to put a premium on where the pick is rather than what they are going to get for it.

Simply put, you put more value in the draft stock than what the actual player is.

 

[Flipper_336]

Simply put, you put more value in the draft stock than what the actual player is.

But isn't that what draftniks do all the time?

In reference to another thread, for example, Clinton-Dix would be a great pick at 44 but a wasted one at 13. If (hypothetically) he turns out to be the best safety in this draft and one of the top five players from the class of 2014 and a hall of famer at the end of his career, how can he be a "reach" at 13?

 

[Memphis Ram]

He battled injuries but played up until 2006 I believe.

That isn't the point. You can point to any single draft and say, "so and so took this player at this position rather than this player at this position, how did that turn out?"

Why don't we talk about the last 10 Super Bowls. Of the last 10 Champions 7 have had a 1st round QB. That seems more telling than whether someone took David Carr over Julius Peppers, once.

Though he tried to play afterwards, Brown was a shell of himself after that knee injury. The deal is that most everyone and their mother that I read and heard considered Peppers (another player with work ethic concerns, btw) the BPA in that draft class. That's the point being made. Need went over the BPA which oftentimes can prove to be is a recipe for disaster.

 

[max]

I hate to say it but a good NFL QB has a greater impact over a HOF DE.

Maybe, but that doesn't mean you take a good QB over a HOF DE.

How difficult is it to find a good QB?

How difficult is it to find a HOF DE?

Well, based on the numbers it is a lot easier to find a good QB. And there are plenty of good QBs that never reach a SB. But look at all the HOF DEs. Most of them have played in a SB.

I'll take the HOF DE over the good QB every time, and just keep looking for my good QB. More than half the teams in the NFL have a good QB right now. You can find them all over the place. We aren't talking about great QBs, that's a different story.

And we aren't talking about good DEs, either. We are talking about all time great players like Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, and Howie Long. If you pass on them and end up with a Matt Hasselbeck, you messed up.

I realize that Houston's pick will come down to Clowney or Bortles. And if they don't feel very strongly that Bortles is a lot closer to Roethlisberger than Hasselbeck, then they should take Clowney and I think they will.

 

[max]

Though he tried to play afterwards, Brown was a shell of himself after that knee injury. The deal is that most everyone and their mother that I read and heard considered Peppers (another player with work ethic concerns, btw) the BPA in that draft class. That's the point being made. Need went over the BPA which oftentimes can prove to be is a recipe for disaster.

Totally agree. History has shown this over and over again.

I keep hearing that if you need a QB, then you gotta take the best one no matter what. Well, Seattle never did that and they are the Champs.

 

[jrry32]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean you take a good QB over a HOF DE.

If I needed a QB, I would.

 

[jrry32]

Totally agree. History has shown this over and over again.

I keep hearing that if you need a QB, then you gotta take the best one no matter what. Well, Seattle never did that and they are the Champs.

Seattle was very fortunate to find their guy in the 3rd round. If they hadn't, imo, they wouldn't be anywhere near a championship with Matt Flynn at QB despite their defensive and offensive talent.

 

[jrry32]

Something, but nothing stoping him from mailing it in for at least one season, if he can get drafted #2 overall by a team with zero need at DE on 2 out of 3 good seasons, then I don't see why his second contract would be any different.

What will stop any player from mailing it in? I've heard about players we'd never even suspect coming out of school that lost their passion for football and mailed it in.

Rumor is that Hakeem Nicks did that last year. John Moffitt did it before he retired. I don't remember anyone questioning their passion coming out.

 

[Sum1]

Though he tried to play afterwards, Brown was a shell of himself after that knee injury. The deal is that most everyone and their mother that I read and heard considered Peppers (another player with work ethic concerns, btw) the BPA in that draft class. That's the point being made. Need went over the BPA which oftentimes can prove to be is a recipe for disaster.

Sure, I understand. However, it is pretty easy to look back and point out when a team took a player of need over the supposed BPA when said player busts.

What I'd be curious to see is how many past busts were considered BPA and a team passed on a need player that ended up flourishing.

I'm sure there are examples of such...but honestly, I'm to lazy to do the research on a subject that has been discussed man times.

 

[tbux]

I agree Sum- but bottom line- we wont be picking at 2- we will trade out. 5 of the top 8 teams need a QB- and someone is going to really want to make sure they get their guy- or someone will want Clowney that much- we will be trading back- I am pretty certain about that.

If we didn't have 2 very good DEs and a very good backup as well- I would probably be for taking Clowney- but he does have question marks, and we don't need a DE- so to me it is easy- trade back.

 

[Rockman]

There's one reason not to like this...the background music is horrendous!!!

 

[The Bus]

Maybe, but that doesn't mean you take a good QB over a HOF DE.

How difficult is it to find a good QB?

How difficult is it to find a HOF DE?

Well, based on the numbers it is a lot easier to find a good QB. And there are plenty of good QBs that never reach a SB. But look at all the HOF DEs. Most of them have played in a SB.

I'll take the HOF DE over the good QB every time, and just keep looking for my good QB. More than half the teams in the NFL have a good QB right now. You can find them all over the place. We aren't talking about great QBs, that's a different story.

And we aren't talking about good DEs, either. We are talking about all time great players like Deacon Jones, Reggie White, Bruce Smith, Michael Strahan, and Howie Long. If you pass on them and end up with a Matt Hasselbeck, you messed up.

I realize that Houston's pick will come down to Clowney or Bortles. And if they don't feel very strongly that Bortles is a lot closer to Roethlisberger than Hasselbeck, then they should take Clowney and I think they will.

buddy... you have clowney in the hall of fame already?... texans will draft a QB. cuz if they don't, there not going to get one of the QB's they want in this draft. there fore another struggling year for the texans..
who's to say none of these top 5 QB's aren't Hall of Fame quarterbacks...
your letting the media get to you on clowney, yes his athletism isn't normal.. but one or two torn ACL's and clowney doesn't go to no hall of fame.

chances of that are slim.. and probably won't happen...
and definitely WONT HAPPEN. being that

the st.louis rams draft my boy CLOWNEY PICK # 2
LETS GO BOYS. Stack this Defense more. gonna be hard for these division chumps to beat us
when they can't score neither!! LETS GO!

bottom line is. Clowney is gonna be a Ram next year.

LETS GO !

 

[max]

I agree Sum- but bottom line- we wont be picking at 2- we will trade out. 5 of the top 8 teams need a QB- and someone is going to really want to make sure they get their guy- or someone will want Clowney that much- we will be trading back- I am pretty certain about that.

If we didn't have 2 very good DEs and a very good backup as well- I would probably be for taking Clowney- but he does have question marks, and we don't need a DE- so to me it is easy- trade back.

Agree.

If Clowney is there at 2, then it looks easier to get a trade.

And with Bridgewater appearing to slide a bit, teams may be lining up for Bortles. Just not as clear as with Clowney, but there may be strong interest from Oak for Bortles.

The conspiracy theorists will come out if Rams give Raiders a bargain, thinking it's tied to Saffold deal.

 

[max]

Seattle was very fortunate to find their guy in the 3rd round. If they hadn't, imo, they wouldn't be anywhere near a championship with Matt Flynn at QB despite their defensive and offensive talent.

For 3 years, Schnieder kept trying to find a QB without picking a QB over another much higher rated player. That's one reason why he's an elite GM. He doesn't just pick a good QB over a great player.

I used to be on the other side of that argument. I've since seen the light. The 2011 and 2012 drafts turned me around. Teams passing up on Watt and Quinn to take QBs like Locker, Ponder, and Gabbert, that should be proof enough for anyone.

 

[RamsSince1969]

Look at the size of the guy trying to block him, #20 on the opposing team, at the 38 second mark. It looks like my little brother when he was 12 years old trying to block him. Either Clowney is huge beyond belief or the highlight is not a fair representation of what type and size of daily players he will be facing at the pro level. I mean can he be a beast against guys twice or three times as big as #20 and still stay hungry? This is fun trying to sort it all out. C'mon draft day!!!!!!!!

 

[Ram_of_Old]

I don't think we need as much help on the D side of the ball, as the O side. My cry has been....KEEP BRADFORD UPRIGHT AND HEALTHY!

Clowney does not do that.

 

[shaunpinney]

Clowney will go #1

 

[blackbart]

I get what you're saying and agree that he can't play the way he did this past season and have success in the NFL, but hear me out.

After his 2012 season Clowney already solidified being a high first round draft pick in the NFL, meaning he was about to reap the reward for dedicating his entire life to his craft, his family wouldn't have to worry about money anymore, etc. Only problem is, despite already being ready, theres that stupid 3 year rule that forced him back to college. So, IMO clowney doesn't have a bad work ethic, isn't lazy, its not that he doesn't care, he just didn't want to get hurt in this one meaningless year that could do nothing positive for him. It would be great to have seen him dominate this past season from a reassurance standpoint but I just can't say I blame the kid.

Imagine if you finally reached your highest goal in life that you've worked so hard to reach only to be told you have to risk not being able to make it 1 more year because of a technicality...Just food for thought and this is all my opinion but..i still see the dominant player from last year when i think of him as a prospect

I get the whole financial security thing but I want players that lovew the game and can't help themselves but to go 1000% all out all the time. The money is going to come. Is he going to slack off during his rookie contract so he doesn't take a chance of getting hurt and then play for a big contract in his last year of that rookie contract in hopes of cashing in big? His rookie contract is not going to give him financial security.

And if I happened to be the guy he was standing up against taking plays off (Hypothetical of course) I would do my best to bury him.

 

[NJRamsFan]

I get the whole financial security thing but I want players that lovew the game and can't help themselves but to go 1000% all out all the time. The money is going to come. Is he going to slack off during his rookie contract so he doesn't take a chance of getting hurt and then play for a big contract in his last year of that rookie contract in hopes of cashing in big? His rookie contract is not going to give him financial security.

And if I happened to be the guy he was standing up against taking plays off (Hypothetical of course) I would do my best to bury him.

I hear you man, but you can't say the money is going to come. If he got hurt and couldn't play football anymore than what? I think we need to stop looking at these guys like machines and put ourselves in their position for a minute, can you really blame the guy if this is the case? Like another poster mentioned, he saw what happened to fellow teammate marcus lattimore. The bigger issue is the stupid rule that didn't allow a guy who was ready to dominate the nfl into the league on a technicality. The ncaa is profiting off these guys heavily, if you're going to force them to risk their bodies for your own gain its time to reward them

 

[blackbart]

I hear you man, but you can't say the money is going to come. If he got hurt and couldn't play football anymore than what? I think we need to stop looking at these guys like machines and put ourselves in their position for a minute, can you really blame the guy if this is the case? Like another poster mentioned, he saw what happened to fellow teammate marcus lattimore. The bigger issue is the stupid rule that didn't allow a guy who was ready to dominate the nfl into the league on a technicality. The ncaa is profiting off these guys heavily, if you're going to force them to risk their bodies for your own gain its time to reward them

I would have given my left nut for a full ride to play football somewhere. And I would have made sure to get an education for a back up plan. You don't think the scholarship is a reward? I'll bet there are plenty of people out there paying that money for an education that would disagree. Did he slack off on the education side too? I have no idea. I do not think it is fair for them not to get SOMETHING since they really can't work, play sports and get an education.

By the way I work at a major University and see some of these guys around campus, some of them bust their hump to get it done, others are thinking they are on easy street and it will all fall in their laps.

Apparently he was not a very good student before going to South Carolina. I could not find anything on his educational transcript while he was there.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/12/sports/ncaafootball/12clowney.html