Interesting question…?

[Elmgrovegnome]

That's a silly statement. He went from 30 td passes per season to 21 while his turnovers went from 14 per season to 19
TD's down 9, turnovers up 5. Pretty far stretch to assume each of the 5 "increased" turnovers cost a score, even if they did it still leaves a delta of 4 scores.
Again, averaging a turnover a game isnt a killer for a QB, Josh Allen does it every year. Not scoring TD's is a killer and that's why they rightly so moved on

Not silly at all. He never adjusted to pressure. He did great in 2017 and some of 2018 when there was no inside pass rush. Once teams pressured him inside they got into his head. He’d react to pressure that wasn’t close. He’d throw INTs because he rushed throws and wasn’t seeing the field well. That inside pressure is what caused his problems. The Lions negated it with a good Oline and he was back to good Goff.

McVay tried rolling him out and giving him half field reads, because Goff couldn’t process fast enough with pressure in his face. When a QB plays rushed and confused, how is he going to score 30-40 points

It’s not silly, it’s common sense.

 

[dieterbrock]

Not silly at all. He never adjusted to pressure. He did great in 2017 and some of 2018 when there was no inside pass rush. Once teams pressured him inside they got into his head. He’d react to pressure that wasn’t close. He’d throw INTs because he rushed throws and wasn’t seeing the field well. That inside pressure is what caused his problems. The Lions negated it with a good Oline and he was back to good Goff.

McVay tried rolling him out and giving him half field reads, because Goff couldn’t process fast enough with pressure in his face. When a QB plays rushed and confused, how is he going to score 30-40 points

It’s not silly, it’s common sense.

The math dont math....
He went from 30 td's to 20 with only 4 more turnovers (on 10% more dropbacks)
Its a silly argument. Goff didnt have it, he couldnt get them in the EZ so the turnovers hurt more

 

[RamFan503]

 

[PARAM]

Too many variables to compare the two of them statistically. The teams. Coaching, surround cast, etc. That goes for the good and the bad. Goff was worse in 2019 and 2020, than he was the previous two years? True but in 2019 he had a patchwork OL and Gurley wasn't that Gurley. In 2020, Gurley was gone and Akers/Henderson didn't equal Gurley. But Stafford rarely had what Goff did in the RB room. If you go by the eye test Stafford is clearly the better QB. Arm strength. Pre snap reads. Ability to make the big play at the crucial time. Has Goff become a better Goff in Detroit? Sure, but the big test will be 2025 when he doesn't have his OC. Stafford may have more this year, than he's had in any season in the NFL. A great surrounding cast. A terrific young defense. The only question mark, right now, is LT.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Stafford threw 17 INTs in 2021, which was a lot, but he threw 41 TDs that year. More than a 2 to 1 ratio.

Exactly. Goff threw 32 TD’s in 2018. His most as a Ram. He never sniffed 41.

I haven’t looked at Josh Allen’s numbers, but I don’t care much about turnovers if my QB is throwing a ton of TD’s. Goff didn’t put up near enough TD’s in the air or rushing to negate his turnovers.

 

[thirteen28]

Have we ever debated this topic before?

 

[thirteen28]

Blythe hater!

You can level the same accusation at me, without the blue font. Guilty.

Ditto Bobby Evans.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The math dont math....
He went from 30 td's to 20 with only 4 more turnovers (on 10% more dropbacks)
It’s a silly argument. Goff didnt have it, he couldnt get them in the EZ so the turnovers hurt more

What? So, he had it’s, lost it, and got it back all by himself? Detroit having the best offensive line in the NFL had nothing to do with it?

The Rams allowing so much interior pressure had nothing to do with it?

 

[PARAM]

He never adjusted to pressure. He did great in 2017 and some of 2018 when there was no inside pass rush. Once teams pressured him inside they got into his head. He’d react to pressure that wasn’t close. He’d throw INTs because he rushed throws and wasn’t seeing the field well. That inside pressure is what caused his problems. The Lions negated it with a good Oline and he was back to good Goff.

McVay tried rolling him out and giving him half field reads, because Goff couldn’t process fast enough with pressure in his face. When a QB plays rushed and confused, how is he going to score 30-40 points

It’s not silly, it’s common sense.

The pressure was never prevented. The difference between 2017-18 and 2019-20 was Saffold & Sullivan out; Allen and Noteboom in. And in 2019, Allen, Noteboom and Havenstein were out by midseason and Evans, Edwards and Corbett (along with a start from Demby) were in. Clearly, Stafford is the better QB for many reasons. But Goff's performance suffered due to surrounding cast. It's not a stretch to say in 2022, when the OL was a clusterfook, Stafford wasn't the regular Stafford. 10 TDs, 8 picks over 9 games (3-6 record), then injured and done for the season. Goff ain't Stafford. Isn't even close but he's not TJ Rubley either. The last 3 years with weapons and an OL in Detroit, he has 96 TDs and 31 Int, 13,642 yards, 7.88 yds/att and a 102.7 QB rating. The Lions are 36-15 (.706) over that span. He wasn't that with McVay but then again, it was year 2 through 5, the last two with a questionable OL. Nobody is more happy than I that the trade was made. But I'm not gonna diss Goff as some 'average QB'.

 

[dieterbrock]

What? So, he had it’s, lost it, and got it back all by himself? Detroit having the best offensive line in the NFL had nothing to do with it?

The Rams allowing so much interior pressure had nothing to do with it?

You're turning this in to an entirely different discussion and conversation, was only talking strictly about his last 2 years in Horns when he allegedly lead the NFL in turnovers during that time. Detroit had nothing to do with it

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The pressure was never prevented. The difference between 2017-18 and 2019-20 was Saffold & Sullivan out; Allen and Noteboom in. And in 2019, Allen, Noteboom and Havenstein were out by midseason and Evans, Edwards and Corbett (along with a start from Demby) were in. Clearly, Stafford is the better QB for many reasons. But Goff's performance suffered due to surrounding cast. It's not a stretch to say in 2022, when the OL was a clusterfook, Stafford wasn't the regular Stafford. 10 TDs, 8 picks over 9 games (3-6 record), then injured and done for the season. Goff ain't Stafford. Isn't even close but he's not TJ Rubley either. The last 3 years with weapons and an OL in Detroit, he has 96 TDs and 31 Int, 13,642 yards, 7.88 yds/att and a 102.7 QB rating. The Lions are 36-15 (.706) over that span. He wasn't that with McVay but then again, it was year 2 through 5, the last two with a questionable OL. Nobody is more happy than I that the trade was made. But I'm not gonna diss Goff as some 'average QB'.

Basically what I originally said. The reason for the turnovers is also the reason for lack of production.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

You're turning this in to an entirely different discussion and conversation, was only talking strictly about his last 2 years in Horns when he allegedly lead the NFL in turnovers during that time. Detroit had nothing to do with it

No, you are arguing that what obviously was the biggest problem that resulted in turnovers wasn’t also the reason for lack of production.

I don’t see how that’s possibly untrue when we all saw that when he went to Detroit he was able to produce at a high level and keep turnovers down.

It’s always been the offensive line and Goff’s inability to deal with pressure in his face that caused both. It got so bad in 2019 and 2020 that he was reacting to pressure that wasn’t close.

 

[AZRams]

My favorite player from that period of floundering the QB desert was Jamie Martin.

Woof...

 

[PARAM]

No, you are arguing that what obviously was the biggest problem that resulted in turnovers wasn’t also the reason for lack of production.

I don’t see how that’s possibly untrue when we all saw that when he went to Detroit he was able to produce at a high level and keep turnovers down.

It’s always been the offensive line and Goff’s inability to deal with pressure in his face that caused both. It got so bad in 2019 and 2020 that he was reacting to pressure that wasn’t close.

I think Goff allowed the turnovers to bother him, whereas Stafford just seems to 'let it go'. Not that Goff shouldn't be pissed for a minute, But it just seemed like one turnover and he was too cautious. Could have been a combo of youth, inexperience AND pissing off McVay. Not that Stafford doesn't piss off McVay but with his experience he prolly thinks, 'yeah, okay, but watch how I come back from that'. Maybe it's the experience gained but Goff threw 5 picks in a game last year. You don't do that by being overly cautious. FWIW, Detroit won that game.

 

[AZRams]

Exactly. Goff threw 32 TD’s in 2018. His most as a Ram. He never sniffed 41.

I haven’t looked at Josh Allen’s numbers, but I don’t care much about turnovers if my QB is throwing a ton of TD’s. Goff didn’t put up near enough TD’s in the air or rushing to negate his turnovers.

Made me twitch a little...I seem to recall Martz talking about how INTs didn't matter.

 

[Tano]

You can level the same accusation at me, without the blue font. Guilty.

Ditto Bobby Evans.

People can disagree with me all they want but I am firmly of the belief that we do not win the Superbowl in 2021 if Blythe was the starting center that year.

And now for the not so sure emojis

 

[dieterbrock]

No, you are arguing that what obviously was the biggest problem that resulted in turnovers wasn’t also the reason for lack of production.

I don’t see how that’s possibly untrue when we all saw that when he went to Detroit he was able to produce at a high level and keep turnovers down.

It’s always been the offensive line and Goff’s inability to deal with pressure in his face that caused both. It got so bad in 2019 and 2020 that he was reacting to pressure that wasn’t close.

5 more turnovers, 10 less touchdowns
The math aint mathing
Was it part of the dissention? Of course, because they werent scoring. It's just silly to think that 1 extra turnover every 4 games explains the lack of production. That's the tail wagging the dog

 

[Mojo Ram]

Made me twitch a little...I seem to recall Martz talking about how INTs didn't matter.

Ouch, I do sound like Martz. Eh that’s okay. He also said your QB should be the fiercest competitor on your team(or something like that)….

…and that takes me back to the Goff discussion. He wasn’t that.

 

[dieterbrock]

…and that takes me back to the Goff discussion. He wasn’t that.

On that we all agree.
Took some longer than others

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

5 more turnovers, 10 less touchdowns
The math aint mathing
Was it part of the dissention? Of course, because they werent scoring. It's just silly to think that 1 extra turnover every 4 games explains the lack of production. That's the tail wagging the dog

Okay, you’re right. Goff just lost it for two years for no apparent reason and then found it again for no apparent reason.