If Only The Rams Had The Pac 12 All Time Leader Passer Already On The Roster

[PARAM]

@PARAM @jrry32

Wouldn't you both agree that Kerry Collins & Jeff George could play? In different situations they'd have better careers? Didn't Collins go to the playoffs with some good coaches a couple times? In fact went (won?) a super bowl.....
Situations dictate how good a talented QB can become. They also dictate how terrible a player can look. Even though they may have extreme talent.... Like George....

I would agree both George and Collins could play. But both were head cases, George as a #1 overall who could never deliver until later with the Vikings and Collins who had alcohol problems. Both could have been franchise QBs but neither were IMHO. They were good though.

 

[jrry32]

Who's to say Mannion doesn't develop into a Trent Green or Joe Flacco or Eli Manning in a year or two?

Nobody can definitively say that but I certainly didn't see that ability in college and the odds are stacked against us.

Reality vs perception? What's wrong with expecting to get an elite QB with a first round pick?

Because it's not a realistic expectation. I understand wanting it but expecting it makes it almost a lock that you will be disappointed.

 

[jrry32]

@PARAM @jrry32

Wouldn't you both agree that Kerry Collins & Jeff George could play? In different situations they'd have better careers? Didn't Collins go to the playoffs with some good coaches a couple times? In fact went (won?) a super bowl.....
Situations dictate how good a talented QB can become. They also dictate how terrible a player can look. Even though they may have extreme talent.... Like George....

Could play? To a degree. But neither were that good. They were essentially akin to what Fitzpatrick is today.

 

[PARAM]

Could play? To a degree. But neither were that good. They were essentially akin to what Fitzpatrick is today.

An honest question. Did you ever watch either of those guys (George and Collins), live or on tv in real time?

 

[OldSchool]

If only being the PAC 12 all time leading passer meant anything in the NFL. Oh this is a fun game to play I like it lets keep doing this please

 

[dieterbrock]

I would agree both George and Collins could play. But both were head cases, George as a #1 overall who could never deliver until later with the Vikings and Collins who had alcohol problems. Both could have been franchise QBs but neither were IMHO. They were good though.

Remains to be seen what Collins may have been if not for the broken jaw he suffered in preseason. He was coming off a successful 2nd year, the team was on the rise. He wasn't the same after that, then the booze took over.
As for George, I don't know where to put him. He had the ability to be a franchise guy but circumstances just didn't allow it. He seemed to be in the right place with June Jones in Atlanta, but June Jones was as much of a head case as he was. That's the tricky thing about QB, if they don't make it with the team that drafted them, they end playing for whoever will pay them and likely jump from one bad position to another.

 

[PARAM]

If only being the PAC 12 all time leading passer meant anything in the NFL. Oh this is a fun game to play I like it lets keep doing this please

It is fun isn't it?

Being the all time leading passer in the PAC-12 doesn't mean anything in the NFL but it should speak to the fact he doesn't rank 10th or 20th. Of course that title and an NFL contract will get you 7 pass attempts in your rookie season.

 

[jrry32]

An honest question. Did you ever watch either of those guys (George and Collins), live or on tv in real time?

Yes, I saw Collins play and he was nothing special. I saw George play in old games after the fact, again, nothing special. Like Fitzpatrick, they were mediocre QBs who were capable enough to put up solid to good numbers in the right situations.

 

[PARAM]

Remains to be seen what Collins may have been if not for the broken jaw he suffered in preseason. He was coming off a successful 2nd year, the team was on the rise. He wasn't the same after that, then the booze took over.
As for George, I don't know where to put him. He had the ability to be a franchise guy but circumstances just didn't allow it. He seemed to be in the right place with June Jones in Atlanta, but June Jones was as much of a head case as he was. That's the tricky thing about QB, if they don't make it with the team that drafted them, they end playing for whoever will pay them and likely jump from one bad position to another.

I was never over impressed with either of them but they were both good QBs. You mention Collins broken jaw (which I don't remember btw) and that can affect a guy. George played for the Colts and being the first overall pick was probably rushed into the job. His supporting cast included a washed up Dickerson, past his last 1,000 yard season; WR's Stanley Morgan (JGs rookie year was his final season), Jessie Hester (who had his most productive years with George throwing to him), Bill Brooks (583 career catches) and receiving 3rd down back Albert Bently (in his final year...he played 3 games over the next two years). He was sacked 120 times in his first 3 seasons and that was before the NFL revised the grounding rule allowing QB's to throw the ball away when out of the pocket. But the dude had a cannon for an arm and could thread a needle. He had 2 of his top 3 seasons for June Jones and Atlanta.

 

[OldSchool]

Jeff George was the perfect example of million dollar arm and five cent head. Had an arm to make all of the throws but wasn't bright enough to know when he shouldn't make them.

 

[PARAM]

I saw George play in old games after the fact.

As I suspected. Comparing him to Fitzpatrick would confirm the fact. On players you've never really seen, the numbers don't tell 1/4 of the story.

My point is, the numbers don't always tell whether a guy is a franchise QB-material or not. I read a post from a member of another Ram board who detests the term "franchise QB" and he likes the term "sustainable QB".

He defines it this way:
"I have come to detest the term, franchise QB.

I like the term, "sustainable QB", as the threshold of what a team needs to win a SB under normal conditions. That is, not having an all-time great D.

A sustainable QB is capable of producing at a consistently proficient level for many years"

Jeff George managed to get two different NFL teams to the postseason. He never played in a SB but he was a true talent at the QB position. I believe he was hampered by being thrust into the job early, abused and played for some bad teams. I don't think there were many NFL QB's who had more physical talent than George.

 

[dieterbrock]

I was never over impressed with either of them but they were both good QBs. You mention Collins broken jaw (which I don't remember btw) and that can affect a guy. George played for the Colts and being the first overall pick was probably rushed into the job. His supporting cast included a washed up Dickerson, past his last 1,000 yard season; WR's Stanley Morgan (JGs rookie year was his final season), Jessie Hester (who had his most productive years with George throwing to him), Bill Brooks (583 career catches) and receiving 3rd down back Albert Bently (in his final year...he played 3 games over the next two years). He was sacked 120 times in his first 3 seasons and that was before the NFL revised the grounding rule allowing QB's to throw the ball away when out of the pocket. But the dude had a cannon for an arm and could thread a needle. He had 2 of his top 3 seasons for June Jones and Atlanta.

George had total trash to play for and with at the Colts. It wasn't until he was gone that they brought in some RB from San Diego State who would turn the team around right away. Of course Harabaugh gets the credit, but #28 was awesome for them. Cant remember where the Colts traded him to....

Yeah Collins got his jaw broken by that sleazeball Romanowski in a pre-season game. This was prior to the 97 season (after the AFC Champ run). Could understand him being a bit gun shy and between the pain killers and alcohol taking over, you could see how his path diverted. Didn't help that he made racist statements and the team decided to rid themselves of the racist, pill popping drunk that he had become.

 

[Roman Snow]

It is fun isn't it?

Being the all time leading passer in the PAC-12 doesn't mean anything in the NFL but it should speak to the fact he doesn't rank 10th or 20th. Of course that title and an NFL contract will get you 7 pass attempts in your rookie season.

Sure. And none of that was lost in me when I made this post. I hope I didn't fail to communicate that. It appears from the poll, as well, the fact that Mannion owns that record is not lost on the savvy ROD community.


However, the point is not, "Mannion is the answer! Let's do nothing!" I hear no one saying that. The point is:

• Our quarterback cupboard is NOT bare. We have a guy, in the short term, in Keenum that can take the reigns, (or the keys to the car, in the metaphor of that one moron writer recently about Manziel) and move chains, make plays, win games with our running game and defense. Add Mannion plus one unknown.
• Mannion was "red shirted" in the words of Snisher, and protected all of last year. I've read some mouth breathers here, and elsewhere write him off. :rant:"If he couldn't beat out Keenum and Foles he's useless!" Lighten up, Francis.
• If Mannion WERE in this draft class where would he be placed? Every year is relative. Some years produce ZERO starting quality quarterbacks. Would Mannion be talked about as a late first rounder, early second rounder like Cook? Lower? Higher? I don't know.

 

[PARAM]

However, the point is not, "Mannion is the answer! Let's do nothing!" I hear no one saying that. The point is:

• Our quarterback cupboard is NOT bare. We have a guy, in the short term, in Keenum that can take the reigns, (or the keys to the car, in the metaphor of that one moron writer recently about Manziel) and move chains, make plays, win games with our running game and defense. Add Mannion plus one unknown.
• Mannion was "red shirted" in the words of Snisher, and protected all of last year. I've read some mouth breathers here, and elsewhere write him off. :rant:"If he couldn't beat out Keenum and Foles he's useless!" Lighten up, Francis.
• If Mannion WERE in this draft class where would he be placed? Every year is relative. Some years produce ZERO starting quality quarterbacks. Would Mannion be talked about as a late first rounder, early second rounder like Cook? Lower? Higher? I don't know.

Great points. Year to year everything differs.

Some years there's a couple/three good QBs. Some years there's none. Since the NFL and AFL merged their drafts together in 1966, there have only been 5 years when a QB wasn't taken in the first round (the last time being the year the Rams drafted Tony Banks in the 2nd). Teams reach. Sometimes guys are over rated.

Will Winston-Mariota rank as high as Manning-Rivers-Roethlisberger? As high as Ryan-Flacco? The fun part after the names have been called is watching it all unfold.

As far as the question where would Mannion rank in this years class, I don't know. I have a couple of questions too. Where would Tony Banks rank? Could we get another Spartan QB in the 2nd round? And if we do, will he fair better than the last one? I guess technically, that's 3 questions.

 

[dieterbrock]

Where would Tony Banks rank? Could we get another Spartan QB in the 2nd round? And if we do, will he fair better than the last one?

Wouldn't the last Spartan QB be Jeff Smoker????

 

[PARAM]

Wouldn't the last Spartan QB be Jeff Smoker????

Quite right. Well then my question would be, will he fair better than the last two??!!

 

[jrry32]

As I suspected. Comparing him to Fitzpatrick would confirm the fact. On players you've never really seen, the numbers don't tell 1/4 of the story.

I wasn't comparing them to Fitzpatrick in terms of skill-set. I was comparing them in terms of what they offered a team. And I stand by that. The numbers and the play back that up. All were mediocre starting QBs who could play well in the right situation but were not net positives for a number of teams they played on.

My point is, the numbers don't always tell whether a guy is a franchise QB-material or not. I read a post from a member of another Ram board who detests the term "franchise QB" and he likes the term "sustainable QB".

He defines it this way:
"I have come to detest the term, franchise QB.

I like the term, "sustainable QB", as the threshold of what a team needs to win a SB under normal conditions. That is, not having an all-time great D.

A sustainable QB is capable of producing at a consistently proficient level for many years"

There's no difference. It's just using a different word.

Jeff George managed to get two different NFL teams to the postseason. He never played in a SB but he was a true talent at the QB position. I believe he was hampered by being thrust into the job early, abused and played for some bad teams. I don't think there were many NFL QB's who had more physical talent than George.

Jeff George was a lesser Jay Cutler. All the physical talent in the world but you never knew what you would get, the guy was a major headache for organizations/coaches, and he didn't have a sharp enough mind to be great.