How would you build an offense from scratch?

[Rmfnlt]

Always come back to the same question:
How far can a QB throw a football while flat on his back?

 

[Prime Time]

A good QB can cover up average line play. Brady and Manning are perfect examples of this. Both have had some pretty average lines, but there ability to recognize what the defense is doing, getting rid of the ball in less than 3 seconds and their ability to manipulate the pocket have covered up deficiencies in the line.

Don't get me wrong anybody who knows me know I love the big uglies and believe a good line controls the game. But the right QB wins and I firmly believe the QB is the most important position on the field. Give me the QB.

Yeah I'm not proposing assembling the worst OL imaginable or "The Rams method" as I like to call it, hence my second pick, but it's far easier to find a bunch of average OL which is all you need, than a top 10 QB, hence why Ryan Tannehill has just been paid so much.

We don't agree on this but then again there are different ways to build a winning team. Yeah, a good QB like Peyton Manning can help overcome a mediocre line but that didn't help him much last season against the Rams or against the Seahawks in the Super Bowl did it?

Here's a list of Super Bowl winning quarterbacks:

http://www.docsports.com/current/super-bowl-winning-quarterbacks.html

Super Bowl 1. Bart Starr (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 2. Bart Starr (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 3. Joe Namath (MVP), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 4. Len Dawson (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 5. John Unitas (Chuck Howley), 1 TD
Super Bowl 6. Roger Staubach (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 7. Bob Griese (Jake Scott), 1 TD
Super Bowl 8. Bob Griese (Larry Csonka), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 9. Terry Bradshaw (Franco Harris), 1 TD
Super Bowl 10. Terry Bradshaw (Lynn Swann), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 11. Ken Stabler (Fred Biletnikoff), 1 TD
Super Bowl 12. Roger Staubach (Harvey Martin & Randy White), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 13. Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 14. Terry Bradshaw (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 15. Jim Plunkett (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 16. Joe Montana (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 17. Joe Theismann (John Riggins), 2 TDs,
Super Bowl 18. Jim Plunkett (Marcus Allen), 1 TD
Super Bowl 19. Joe Montana (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 20. Jim McMahon (Richard Dent), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 21. Phil Simms (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 22. Doug Williams (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 23. Joe Montana (Jerry Rice), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 24. Joe Montana (MVP), 5 TDs
Super Bowl 25. Jeff Hostetler (Ottis Anderson), 1 TD
Super Bowl 26. Mark Rypien (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 27. Troy Aikman (MVP), 4 TDs
Super Bowl 28. Troy Aikman (Emmitt Smith), O TDs
Super Bowl 29. Steve Young (MVP), 6 TDs
Super Bowl 30. Troy Aikman (Larry Brown), 1 TD
Super Bowl 31. Brett Favre (Desmond Howard), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 32. John Elway (Terrell Davis), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 33. John Elway (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 34. Kurt Warner (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 35. Trent Dilfer (Ray Lewis), 1 TD
Super Bowl 36. Tom Brady (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 37. Brad Johnson (Dexter Jackson), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 38. Tom Brady (MVP), 3 TDs
Super Bowl 39. Tom Brady (Deion Branch), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 40. Ben Roethlisberger (Hines Ward), 0 TDs
Super Bowl 41. Peyton Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 43: Ben Roethlisberger (Santonio Holmes), 1 TD
Super Bowl 44: Drew Brees (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 45: Aaron Rogers (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 48: Russell Wilson, 2TDs

Give me an Eli Manning, a Brad Johnson, a Trent Dilfer, a Mark Rypien, or a Jim McMahon along with a solid O-line, a good running game, a tough defense, and good ST's, I'll show you a team that may not necessarily win a Super Bowl but at least win more games than it loses.

Isn't that what all Rams fans are asking for these days? We already have the tough defense, a good running game, and good ST's, all we need now is a good O-line and a QB that can minimize mistakes and stay healthy for the whole season.

Not to start a Bradford debate, but where is it said that he's a great QB? It's possible that a great QB would have made a bigger impact thus making up for some inadequacies on the o-line

The best oline doesnt win the Superbowl every year and while I agree its extremely important I'd take my chances with the QB first.

Never said Bradford was a great QB. As Mike Tyson would say "That's ludicrous." But he was expected to be one considering he was drafted #1 and given that huge contract. The problem was that the team didn't have the building blocks in place before he got there. They put the cart before the horse so to speak.

 

[dieterbrock]

Never said Bradford was a great QB. As Mike Tyson would say "That's ludicrous." But he was expected to be one considering he was drafted #1 and given that huge contract. The problem was that the team didn't have the building blocks in place before he got there. They put the cart before the horse so to speak.

Or maybe Bradford just wasnt that good? I dont know what Aaron Rodgers or Peyton Manning would have done in St Louis, but I'm fairly certain it would have been much better than #8

He was drafted to be great but just because he wasnt, doesnt mean its because of a leaky oline. Tim Couch was supposed to be great too, but he was, well, he turned out to be Tim couch....

 

[dieterbrock]

Always come back to the same question:
How far can a QB throw a football while flat on his back?

I guess that would be a fair response if someone said that QB was most important, and o-line last. I dont think anyone is saying that.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I guess that would be a fair response if someone said that QB was most important, and o-line last. I dont think anyone is saying that.

Aren't you (saying the QB is more important than having a good Oline)?
Maybe I missed something here.

 

[RaminExile]

O-lines more important than QB. Any guy playing QB in the NFL is going to be servicable if you give him a nice clean pocket 75% of the time and separation with his wide-outs. As long as he doesn't make team-killing mistakes you'll win games.
A good QB and a bad o-line and receivers = disaster. You can do one of those - have a bad o-line if you've got a stud QB and stud WRs but - if you have a bad oline with either a bad QB or bad recievers you're in trouble.

 

[Ram Quixote]

Now in the Rams defense they thought they had a good O-line when they drafted Bradford but injuries decimated them. Injuries can screw up a good plan quicker than anything.

Actually, 2010 was banner year for the Oline. They pretty much stayed the same most of the season (yes, even Jason Smith). Now, the receivers, on the other hand, were decimated.

 

[RAGRam]

Super Bowl champions since 2007:
New York Giants, Pass Blocking 7th, run block, 4th, passer rating 26th, post season passer rating 6th
Pittsburgh Steelers, pass block 31st, run block 14th, passer rating 24th, post season passer rating 8th
New Orleans Saints, pass block 13th, run block 5th, passer rating 1st, post season passer rating 1st
Green Bay Packers, pass block 6th, run block 16th, passer rating 3rd, post season passer rating 2nd
New York Giants, pass block 32nd, run block 25th, passer rating 7th, post season passer rating 4th
Baltimore Ravens, pass block 18th, run block 11th, passer rating 12th, post season passer rating 1st
Seattle Seahawks, pass block 20th, run block 22nd, passer rating 7th, post season passer rating 7th
New England Patriots, pass block 29th, run block 16th, passer rating 5th, post season passer rating 5th

Note post season passer rating is where the player would rank on the entire season based on their post season, so Joe Flacco in 2012 had a post season passer rating of 117.2, the top passer rating that season was Rodgers with 108.0, hence Flacco has a "post season passer rating" of 1st.
I'll let you draw your own conclusions as I've been :cheers:

 

[shaunpinney]

1. QB
2. RB
3. LT
4. WR
5. RT
6. TE
7. RG
8. WR2
9. LG
10.C
11. TE/WR/FB

I can name and shame if you want

 

[MrMotes]

Give me an Eli Manning, a Brad Johnson, a Trent Dilfer, a Mark Rypien, or a Jim McMahon along with a solid O-line, a good running game, a tough defense, and good ST's, I'll show you a team that may not necessarily win a Super Bowl but at least win more games than it loses.

Peyton Manning is doing more than that for Denver.

I'll take the great QB first every time.

But even before that, you need the right coach to have a good offense.

 

[Memento]

Building a full offense based on the Fisher years, our draft picks, and productivity (if I don't change anything, that means I'm keeping that pick):

2012 third round (#65): Russell Wilson, QB, Seattle.
2012 second round (#33): Cordy Glenn, RT, Buffalo.
2012 second round (#39): Alshon Jeffery, WR, Chicago.
2012 second round (#50): Kelechi Osemele, LG, Baltimore.
2013 first round (#8): DeAndre Hopkins, WR, Houston.
2013 first round (#30): Larry Warford, RG, Detroit.
2013 fifth round (#160): Joseph Fauria, TE, Detroit.
2014 first round (#2): Greg Robinson, LT, Rams.
2014 second round (#41): Jordan Matthews, Philadelphia.
2014 third round (#75): Tre Mason, RB, Rams.
2015 first round (#10): Todd Gurley, RB, Rams.
2015 third round (#89): Jamil Douglas, C, Miami.
2015 fourth round (#119): Rashad Greene, WR, Jacksonville.
2015 sixth round (#201): Ben Koyack, TE, Jacksonville.

(Just not many tight ends to take without replacing guys like Donald, Brockers, or McDonald, so I had to use a four-wide spread.)

As for building an offense from scratch? This is what I'd go with in the exact order:

1. QB.
2. LT.
3. WR.
4. WR.
5. RT.
6. RB
7. C
8. WR.
9. LG.
10. RG.
11. TE

 

[dieterbrock]

Aren't you (saying the QB is more important than having a good Oline)?
Maybe I missed something here.

I would take franchise QB over the franchise LT if I was starting from scratch.
Again, given the exercise in the OP I'd start with QB and probably go oline next.
I certainly don't think you just win with stud oline and jag at QB.

 

[MrMotes]

Or maybe Bradford just wasnt that good? I

Bradford has a career QBR of 79.3
By comparison Russell Wilson's is 98.6 ...

 

[Prime Time]

Here's a draft history of who the Rams have picked to bolster the O-line since the year 2000. What's the point? There isn't one, I'm just bored. Maybe someone else can figure it out.
****************************************************
2000: John St. Clair(3d round), Kaulana Noa(4th round), Andrew Kline(7th round)

2001: none

2002: Travis Scott(4th round)

2003: Scott Tercero(6th round)

2004: Larry Turner(7th round)

2005: Alex Barron(1st round), Richie Incognito(3d round), Claude Terrell(4th round)

2006: Mark Setterstrom(7th round), Tony Palmer(7th round)

2007: Dustin Fry(5th round), Ken Shackleford(6th round)

2008: John Greco(3d round), Roy Schuening(5th round)

2009: Jason Smith(1st round)

2010: Rodger Saffold(2nd round)

2011: none

2012: Rokevious Watkins(5th round)

2013: Barrett Jones(4th round)

2014: Greg Robinson(1st round), Mitchell Van Dyk(7th round), Demetrius Rhaney(7th round)

2015: Rob Havenstein(2nd round), Jamon Brown(3d round), Andrew Donnal(4th round), Cody Wichmann(6th round)

 

[-X-]

All roads lead to Bradford. :jerkoff:

Shut the fuck up Donnys.

 

[Mojo Ram]

All roads lead to Bradford. :jerkoff:

Shut the freak up Donnys.

 

[…..]

Step 1- Hire Mike martz as Offensive Coordinator

Step 2- Get players.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Well how did that workout for the Rams? It's totally illogical to me to have a great QB and a crappy O-line. There are times that a team can get a good QB by trade. Hopefully Foles will be one. One that was drafted late can also be developed.

Now in the Rams defense they thought they had a good O-line when they drafted Bradford but injuries decimated them. Injuries can screw up a good plan quicker than anything.

So you pick a good QB and then over the next few years try to get him the protection he needs. There's a strong possibility that by that time he's either been injured or he's shell shocked.

It's totally illogical to me that a team could not build a good enough OLine quickly if they really emphasized building one.

There were Falcons fans that wanted Jake Long over Matt Ryan in 2008 because of their OLine issues. Those fans shared your same viewpoint and pointed out David Carr's issues. I bet they don't now.

And with the exception of one spot, the Colts made wholesale changes along the OLine during the same year they drafted Andrew Luck. With the exception of two spots, the Giants did the same when they drafted Eli Manning.

Chances are, if either of those teams passed on QBs, they might still be looking for one, ala the Browns, who had a built up OLine and no QB for years. Buffalo has been trying to find one since Jim Kelly even.

IMO, while the OLine had been an issue, Bradford problems had more to do with his conversion from being a spread QB to a NFL QB while having to go through various scheme changes. And maybe, just maybe, Bradford isn't that good.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Here's a draft history of who the Rams have picked to bolster the O-line since the year 2000. What's the point? There isn't one, I'm just bored. Maybe someone else can figure it out.
****************************************************
2000: John St. Clair(3d round), Kaulana Noa(4th round), Andrew Kline(7th round)

2001: none

2002: Travis Scott(4th round)

2003: Scott Tercero(6th round)

2004: Larry Turner(7th round)

2005: Alex Barron(1st round), Richie Incognito(3d round), Claude Terrell(4th round)

2006: Mark Setterstrom(7th round), Tony Palmer(7th round)

2007: Dustin Fry(5th round), Ken Shackleford(6th round)

2008: John Greco(3d round), Roy Schuening(5th round)

2009: Jason Smith(1st round)

2010: Rodger Saffold(2nd round)

2011: none

2012: Rokevious Watkins(5th round)

2013: Barrett Jones(4th round)

2014: Greg Robinson(1st round), Mitchell Van Dyk(7th round), Demetrius Rhaney(7th round)

2015: Rob Havenstein(2nd round), Jamon Brown(3d round), Andrew Donnal(4th round), Cody Wichmann(6th round)

Conclusion is that's a lot of mostly suck, 14/15 notwithstanding.

 

[HE WITH HORNS]

QB
WR
LT
RB
RT
TE
LG
WR
RG
C
WR


If you are in a position to draft a blue chip QB, you do it in the first round, period. The Rams were, and did so. But, they failed to draft any decent weapons for him, and had a poor Oline as well. Then the injury bug set in. It didn't work out for us, but we won't be in the position to draft a potential franchise QB any time soon either.