Heresy in the age of Free Agency

[Mackeyser]

Firstly, I know that even the idea of this is heresy to RamNation.

I get it. Thing is... if the goal is winning the Super Bowl, there's an off-chance that this might be the better road.

So, this is simply a scenario. I'm not promoting this. I just think it's important for discussion (and you can bet that in the quiet moments away from the building, Snead and Demoff have had this conversation... probably more than once.

Okay, enough. Here goes.

It involves the trade of Aaron Donald. (ducks) Hear me out. I dunno what the issue was with signing the deal this past off-season, but JJ Watt has started to make me rethink this whole notion that Donald HAS to be a Ram at any costs.

So, here's what I thought:

Now, understand much of this is predicated on Dominique Easley coming back full strength.

Trade Aaron Donald to the Indianapolis Colts. Easley replaces AD.

The trade would be AD for the Colts' 1st and 3rd rounders this year and 2nd next year. For a top 5 NFL defensive talent still on his rookie contract, that's honestly a steal, but the upcoming contract mitigates that.

FA – Acquire Malcolm Butler, CB. Resign Trumaine Johnson. Sign Longacre to an extension and Resign Barwin to a short contract.

Draft:

1a) Da'Ron Payne, NT, Alabama. Dude's a physical freak at the NT spot with already developed pass rush moves and the strength and ability to move the pile. The more I read up on him, the more I see teams that will trade up for him. We'd need to be at the Colts' spot to get him as I see him more and more as being a top 5 guy that teams will be interested in at the 1tech DT spot in a 4-3 D as well as NT in a 3-4. This guy won't last until our spot in the 20s. A DL of Brockers, Payne and Easley would actually be better overall than what we have now. Overall. And yeah, we'd miss AD.

1b) Josh Jackson, CB, Iowa who's straight up balling out this year. Actually, Jackson may have risen above Tarvarus McFadden, CB, FSU and I'd be happy with either. Both are press-man CBs who fit this scheme. With Butler, Johnson and a top rookie CB as well as NRC and Webster, we would go a long way to solidifying the back end. And we'd have depth to withstand losing guys like Webster in 2019 if Jackson makes the steps he should make.

If Dorance Armstrong, Jr, OLB, Kansas is there at some point in the mid 2nd, I can see Snead trading our early 3rd and 4th for a 2nd to nab him. Otherwise:

3a) Porter Gustin, OLB, USC. He's had injuries, but the talent and athleticism is there as well as a Chris Long type motor. He might slide because of injuries and that'd be fine as he looks like a young Conor Barwin, but with more upside. Already plays the run strong.



3b) Lorenzo Carter, OLB, Georgia. We've done well with UGA OLBs and Carter is more of a pass rusher than Gustin who sets the edge well, but needs development time as a rusher. Carter is ready to rush as a rookie.

How does this change things?

Well, firstly, we'd have depth at CB and OLB, something we don't really have now. And we'd have rounds 4, 6, and 7 as well as UDFA to improve the OL, TE and maybe RB or WR depth.

Secondly, we'd have a better DL across the board (that's saying the improvement from the NT position going from Walker to Payne would offset the drop from AD to Easley which while some, isn't massive.)

Moreover, we'd have plenty of money to lock up our younger players which is key to having the kind of long term success we want.

Would I prefer Donald retire as a Ram more than a decade from now having rewritten the record books? Of course. But football is a business and we may not have a choice in this matter.

Something to consider.

I chose the Colts because they have the cap space to nab an FA QB if Luck isn't going to play again (looking at you, Cousins) AND pay Donald. And they have a top 5 pick at this time and there aren't any top QB prospects this year. No top 1-3 guys, anyway. Works for the Colts because they already have a lot of pieces on O and adding AD would alleviate some of the pressure on their Dbs.

Anyway, I see us having a very bright future and I see that with or without AD. I know... that feels strange to even think that.

 

[jrry32]

This scenario was automatic loser for me when we traded Donald. And getting nothing for him made it even worse. Pass.

 

[A.J. Hicks]

We are not getting sufficient compensation for Donald in this scenario.

Also, anyone thinking Easley is going to be anything, especially compared to Donald, is just out right crazy.

I believe this is Easley's third ACL tear on the same knee. I don't even know if he is signed past this year. Easley is not someone to count on and I see him retiring soon.

I think we'll see a lot of retooling this off season. We already know of Quinn and Tavon that are making more money than they are producing. We'll see things tooled with and reworked.

If Donald is ultimately traded I would think Snead would pull far more than a 1 and 3 with a 2 the next year.

Ultimately I see him staying and things being worked out.

Fisher was a players coach byway of having a good personality and being good at water cooler talk. McVay is a players coach byway of communication and betterment.

 

[Stl2La]

I would never trade an all pro talent without getting an all pro talent in return.

Easley couldn’t come close to replacing Donald. Plus I would never trust Easley to be able to stay healthy with all the knee issues he’s had.

 

[-X-]

Not for me. I don't trade the best player on my team.
Go out and get a space-eater instead.

 

[I like Rams]

If i was Donald and a losing team was trying to keep me, i would tell them to throw the bank at me. Now that we are an actual playoff contender, I wouldn't be surprised if he works with the coaching staff and management on a deal that benefits both the team and gets him a decent paycheck.

 

[Mackeyser]

how is getting a 1st that translates into Da'Ron Payne..."nothing"?

We could have AD

or

Da'Ron Payne, Malcolm Butler, Tru and two solid OLB prospects.

Again, I'm not saying do this. But... AD may sort of force the Rams' hands.

I honestly don't think the Rams are going to go into tagging Donald. It's possible, but no one would be happy in that scenario because once there, if he keeps producing like we all project, then he's got zero reason to compromise while on those big one year deals and we get nothing at that point, but a 3rd rounder once he gets what he wants.

I only think we paid the franchise tag on Tru because we weren't sure if he was a fit.

The point is that we have viable options that still lead us in a positive direction.

 

[Mackeyser]

If i was Donald and a losing team was trying to keep me, i would tell them to throw the bank at me. Now that we are an actual playoff contender, I wouldn't be surprised if he works with the coaching staff and management on a deal that benefits both the team and gets him a decent paycheck.

Let's hope. I know that losing was wearing his butt out. He was really done with it.

I only brought this up as a possibility because JJ Watt was a workhorse and got mega paid and now he's had two season-ending injuries early in the season in a row now.

And honestly, people in the Rams building always have to have a Plan B...

I'd much prefer we win the Super Bowl, sign AD to a long-term deal and figure the rest out later.

 

[Mackeyser]

We are not getting sufficient compensation for Donald in this scenario.

Also, anyone thinking Easley is going to be anything, especially compared to Donald, is just out right crazy.

I believe this is Easley's third ACL tear on the same knee. I don't even know if he is signed past this year. Easley is not someone to count on and I see him retiring soon.

I think we'll see a lot of retooling this off season. We already know of Quinn and Tavon that are making more money than they are producing. We'll see things tooled with and reworked.

If Donald is ultimately traded I would think Snead would pull far more than a 1 and 3 with a 2 the next year.

Ultimately I see him staying and things being worked out.

Fisher was a players coach byway of having a good personality and being good at water cooler talk. McVay is a players coach byway of communication and betterment.

Very true.

And I did mention that much of this was dependent on Easley coming back strong.

I'm more than willing to cop to not adding enough compensation for Donald. Rarely do huge deals like this happen, so if it did, I dunno that precedent will really matter. It might be relatively light in light of the massive contract required or it might be heavy in picks. I dunno.

I dunno if anyone is Thomas Davis, but he had multiple ACL tears on the same knee 3 years running and then went on an uninjured streak. And medical science especially when it comes to surgeries, has really come a long way.

I just know that even light of our success, changes are coming. I can almost guarantee there will be changes either we didn't expect or thought were pretty unlikely.

When I thought of the "what if"... I just realized that losing AD wouldn't be the same as losing Goff or Gurley.

And to reiterate: I want Donald to be a Ram forever.

Point was that we don't get to make the rules. Losing AD is a possibility. Because I dunno the details of his contract demands or if they will be softened in light of the current improvements to the team, I also dunno. I just know it's a possibility.

 

[Rams43]

Well, it’s certainly some outside-the-box thinking, Mackeyser. Nobody can deny you that. Lol.

Saving around $20 million on an AD extension would be a biggie.

And, frankly, I think that you were very conservative as to what AD might fetch in trade. I think we get much more, tbh.

Butler and TruJo at CB fixes those important positions for years. That’s huge.

Multiple OLB’s to replace Quinn (for sure) and upgrade Barwin eventually are critical, too.

Not sure a NT with that hypothetical 1a pick is necessary, but I’m not a draft geek, so what do I know? But certainly SOME stud will be sitting there at around #5 overall, sooooo...

I see all “holes” filled on D for Wade with your plan. That’s no small thing.

Let’s just say that your suggestion could add a ton of inexpensive talent while solving the need for any AD extension issues.

Your point about JJ Watt not being invaluable is a valid one. We can win either with or without AD, if you ask me.

And with S&M proving to be such good draft evaluators and McVay and his staff being such good talent developers...

Gotta say that your outline has merit and deserves some careful thought.

 

[Prime Time]

Mackeyser and the gang from ROD

 

[fearsomefour]

how is getting a 1st that translates into Da'Ron Payne..."nothing"?

We could have AD

or

Da'Ron Payne, Malcolm Butler, Tru and two solid OLB prospects.

Again, I'm not saying do this. But... AD may sort of force the Rams' hands.

I honestly don't think the Rams are going to go into tagging Donald. It's possible, but no one would be happy in that scenario because once there, if he keeps producing like we all project, then he's got zero reason to compromise while on those big one year deals and we get nothing at that point, but a 3rd rounder once he gets what he wants.

I only think we paid the franchise tag on Tru because we weren't sure if he was a fit.

The point is that we have viable options that still lead us in a positive direction.

We could have Donald, Tru another CB (first round pic) and solid OLB prospects.
It's all risk reward.
Not with it to me.
I am very much of the mind to add to what we have and cut deadwood where needed.

 

[HellRam]

how is getting a 1st that translates into Da'Ron Payne..."nothing"?

We could have AD

or

Da'Ron Payne, Malcolm Butler, Tru and two solid OLB prospects.

Again, I'm not saying do this. But... AD may sort of force the Rams' hands.

I honestly don't think the Rams are going to go into tagging Donald. It's possible, but no one would be happy in that scenario because once there, if he keeps producing like we all project, then he's got zero reason to compromise while on those big one year deals and we get nothing at that point, but a 3rd rounder once he gets what he wants.

I only think we paid the franchise tag on Tru because we weren't sure if he was a fit.

The point is that we have viable options that still lead us in a positive direction.

I don't think your that far off personally. Funny how quickly everyone forgets about the holdout that ended up in Donald missing a game. The fact the Rams and Donald can't agree to a contract at this point gives this idea validity.

As for the trade. I think it's close to what the Rams would get in return for Donald, he is a DT asking for around 20 mill per year afterall, not a QB. Can't see a team giving up more then one additional 1st rounder for that. But you never know. Overall though it will be hard for the Rams to win on a Donald trade imo. The cap savings would be nice as a previous poster already mentioned.

 

[Mackeyser]

Well, the point is that we may not have a choice.

If Donald wants contractual terms the Rams are unwilling to give (I really don't think it's about the money, per se), then it might happen. I dunno if that chance is 0.5% or 50% or what.

Point is that if something were to happen, the sky wouldn't fall and there are scenarios where the Rams end up in a very good position.

Again, the goal is to retain him if he wants to be retained.

 

[PhillyRam]

how is getting a 1st that translates into Da'Ron Payne..."nothing"?

We could have AD

or

Da'Ron Payne, Malcolm Butler, Tru and two solid OLB prospects.

Again, I'm not saying do this. But... AD may sort of force the Rams' hands.

I honestly don't think the Rams are going to go into tagging Donald. It's possible, but no one would be happy in that scenario because once there, if he keeps producing like we all project, then he's got zero reason to compromise while on those big one year deals and we get nothing at that point, but a 3rd rounder once he gets what he wants.

I only think we paid the franchise tag on Tru because we weren't sure if he was a fit.

The point is that we have viable options that still lead us in a positive direction.

I get it.... If you take emotion out of it AND you have faith in who is making the picks, then it does have upside... We are talking about 1 guy, in which anything could happen to him...injury etc... who also carries a huge cap number going forward. In exchange for multiple high picks and cap space to keep talent and add talent.

Considering Donald's position of DT, it is hard to justify turning down such a deal in my view.

In

 

[Ram65]

You can't count on Easley. Barwin is too slow and non-explosive at this point in his career. Could probably do just as good with a cheaper CB over Johnson.

The idea of trading Donald if a willing partner is available is not out of the question. The defense needs a lot of replacements. It's early for the draft and free agency so I don't have a plan right now.

 

[Boston Ram]

Like the out of the box thinking. I hope we keep Donald but it takes two to dance.

 

[Loyal]

Mackeyser and the gang from ROD

hilarious..lol

 

[Loyal]

You can't count on Easley. Barwin is too slow and non-explosive at this point in his career. Could probably do just as good with a cheaper CB over Johnson.

The idea of trading Donald if a willing partner is available is not out of the question. The defense needs a lot of replacements. It's early for the draft and free agency so I don't have a plan right now.

THIS.....Has Aaron Donald ever been hurt?

 

[Merlin]

Been saying it too, Mack, that it might be necessary. Fans don't want to hear it, but if the dude refuses to consider anything but shattering the bank the Rams need to move on. Hope they can get 'er done, but if not so be it make the hard call and make sure you don't F up the picks.

No DT is worth $20M. I love AD but the dude ain't a QB, and he's not a DE either who can get more consistent pressures due to the nature of the edge and difficulty doubling out there. Hope it gets done, again, but if not gonna move on and watch them assemble a great defense without him.