Heresy in the age of Free Agency

[nighttrain]

The arguably best defensive player in the NFL is only the 5th or 6th best player in this team ???

Best and most valuable are not necessarily the same
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[PhillyRam]

The arguably best defensive player in the NFL is only the 5th or 6th best player in this team ???

No, he is the 5th or 6th most important player... and that is due to the position he plays.

He is the best player, but the position he plays can be schemed to overcome his loss.

However if you lose Goff, a player that touches the ball on every offensive play, that is a huge impact.

If you lose Gurley, a dynamic offensive playmaker, that is a bigger loss.

If you lose Whitworth, that can kill an offense or your QB, against a good pass rush.

As for Trumane Johnson, hell look what happened last week after losing Webster. That had a bigger impact on the game than anything Donald could do.

So while he is the most talented player, the impact of his loss is not as great as if you lose a starter at some other positions.

 

[tempests]

No, he is the 5th or 6th most important player... and that is due to the position he plays.

Thought the game was played in the trenches. That's what's being preached on every Rams message board around draft time, anyway. The importance of the lines.

 

[PhillyRam]

Well, right now is Donald leading a run stuffing defense?

He makes splash plays, but can be doubled teamed to be neutralized or at least controlled.

Again what was the biggest factor last week? It was losing a starting CB. Donald did not have a sack or was dominant on run D.

You have to take emotion out of it and ask yourself if you would want to play a big game without one of these guys who would it be..... Goff, Gurley, Whitworth, Johnson, or Donald?

 

[PhillyRam]

And it would be great to keep him, but is he worth 10-12% of your entire cap space?

Then counter that with You can keep him and take up that space or get in return say 3 high picks and maybe 2 or 3 quality FAs that you can add or keep?

So possibly 5-6 high quality players or Donald who again is right now not one of your top 4 or 5 most important players on your team?

You can take that kind of cap room if your an all pro QB, or maybe an absolute shutdown CB or maybe a Julio Jones type WR, but a DT is real iffy in that regard in my view. Its all about the passing game and those positions have more impact than a DT unless that DT is surrounded by stud players where he could not be double teamed, but that is tough to do.

I can also ask is there one game this year that Donald wrecked all by himself? One gane that they don't win if he doesn't make a bunch of plays?

He had the big sack against the Niners, but his defense gave up 39 points!!!

 

[Prime Time]

 

[PhillyRam]

Notice that the other 4 guys on that list are on losing teams? So how important is that position?

Again, it is great having a great DT, but it is not a necessity. And paying a DT $18M a year might be downright stupid. You can have a good DT and several other good players up front and be more effective or as effective than having a $18-20M DT.

 

[PhillyRam]

And don't call me a Donald hater or anything like that. It would be great to have him for his entire career, but if his agent is demanding QB money, that will kill this team over time, especially if Gurley gets a big deal and then Goff.

So if that is the case, then maybe he is the one you deal and fill the roster with more cheap labor in the form of draft picks and again allows you to better distribute your cap dollars throughout the roster.

I mean if you keep Donald then can you also keep Brockers and have like $30M tied up in just two DTs?

That will hamstring the team for years.

 

[PhillyRam]

In hindsight, you can look back at the GSOT and say they probably should have not given Faulk his last deal or maybe Bruce should have been let go, because they ended up with the majority of their cap space tied up in Warner, Bruce, Holt, Faulk, and Pace.

The result was the defense suffered because they let all their young defensive stars go after one contract, special teams sucked as they had no veteran core special team type players, and they had no veteran or quality depth anywhere for that matter.

That was at least one factor that helped end that run pre-maturely.

 

[nanotech]

So many words, so little desire to read them all.

 

[PhillyRam]

Btw, if you look at PFF rankibgs,at other positions, majority of top ranked players are on playoff caliber teams... yet the DT position only Donald is on a contender.

That just shows the impact of the position and dedicating huge cap dollars to that position.

 

[nighttrain]

Btw, if you look at PFF rankibgs,at other positions, majority of top ranked players are on playoff caliber teams... yet the DT position only Donald is on a contender.

That just shows the impact of the position and dedicating huge cap dollars to that position.

True, and it's an issue that us fans have to hope Snead, McVay, and WP get the decision correct when they make it about who to keep and how much cap money to allot to the various positions
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[Memento]

I can't get behind trading a future Hall of Famer. Sorry, Mack.

 

[nighttrain]

I can't get behind trading a future Hall of Famer. Sorry, Mack.

all depends on the money Donald wants, he could, i mean maybe, price himself out of our price range
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[LesBaker]

We are not getting sufficient compensation for Donald in this scenario.

I would never trade an all pro talent without getting an all pro talent in return.

Not for me. I don't trade the best player on my team.

If i was Donald and a losing team was trying to keep me, i would tell them to throw the bank at me. Now that we are an actual playoff contender, I wouldn't be surprised if he works with the coaching staff and management on a deal that benefits both the team and gets him a decent paycheck.

The fact the Rams and Donald can't agree to a contract at this point gives this idea validity.

I hope we keep Donald but it takes two to dance.

Donald is going to hit the market, get used to the idea. He's going to cash in like nobody else other than a QB ever will.

He already turned down a deal from the Rams. He wants to hit the market.

From left to right.........

7-3
4-6
4-6
4-6
2-9

Anyone care to counter that? And then offer a 24+MIL a year deal to a guy that is fantastic but could be replaced by at least 4 different guys from losing teams who would probably welcome the chance to do a deal? On smaller contracts too. Though I'd never want Suh, he's a turd.

I'd love AD to stay, but not for the money he reportedly turned down.

And if a strong trade deal came along I'd take it. He has one year left on his rookie contract after this season and if someone offered the pics Mac mentioned I'd do that deal. I don't know about the players he mentioned because I don't watch college ball but three very high picks making less as a group on 4-5 year deals than Donald would earn his last year and with one tag is a no brainer to me. Plus I like the idea of Snead on draft day with extra grenades in his hands.

If not, he plays out his contract and gets tagged two years then gets his wish to hit the market. In the meantime they can keep trying to hash out a deal, and if they do and there was a little blood on the carpet no big deal as long as it's not a dumb deal for the Rams that works for me too.

Either scenario is good.

 

[dieterbrock]

Its a Browns move.

Perfect

 

[PhillyRam]

Perfect

Nah, it's a Pats move... Like recently trading Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins, top players at their positions that wanted huge deals. Similar to deals made over the past 15 years when they released or traded vet starters that were too expensive.

 

[nighttrain]

Nah, it's a Pats move... Like recently trading Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins, top players at their positions that wanted huge deals. Similar to deals made over the past 15 years when they released or traded vet starters that were too expensive.

Snead! Snead! listen up
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[Mackeyser]

I kind of feel, just based on my own intuition and nothing else, that AD either wants oodles and oodles of money or to play for the Steelers... where he'll only get oodles and half an oodles of money (meaning not that much less but more friendly).

People have really irrational devotions to the places they're raised. Lots of people. He might be one of them. It seems that way to me from the way far outside.

If he's made it clear that he either wants all the money or to leave for the East coast, trading him might be the best option.

I'd love to keep him, but one thing I've learned in life is that it's all going to crap and nothing breaks your way. I wouldn't expect this to work out well either. Might as well get what we can before we walk away with nothing.

Two things:

I think people keep thinking that I WANT this trade. That is totally incorrect. I was discussing a possible scenario in which AD and the Rams FO come to an impasse and rather than go through years of antipathy and expensive franchise tags, the Rams decide to move on.

It's possible. I would rather hope that the Rams and AD would come to some accord EARLY in the off-season and be done with this. My point is that none of us may have a choice. If AD requires language unacceptable to the Rams (apparently, they offered a package that would make him the richest defensive player in the NFL or super close), then what are the alternatives? Do a Cousins and have no plan once the Tags get too expensive? Point being that it's not an optimal scenario by any stretch, but it's possible that they never come to terms. Then what?

Secondly, Pittsburgh is very unlikely in that they have two relatively young DEs and they are actually something like $17M over the cap for 2018 with only 40 players signed. So they have some serious cap work to do this off-season. The first team I looked at was Pittsburgh. Unfortunately, it's literally the last place in the league where he could go unless he played for the minimum.

So, just to reiterate. This isn't a "suggestion" or what I'd like to see happen. It's a "what do we do IF we find that it's not a matter of money, but something else" thing.

 

[Debacled]

Nah, it's a Pats move... Like recently trading Chandler Jones or Jamie Collins, top players at their positions that wanted huge deals. Similar to deals made over the past 15 years when they released or traded vet starters that were too expensive.

Neither were top players at their positions, none of them are traded with years remaining/still on their rookie deals, and they generally both guys that thrived in the Pats system. They trade guys who are going to be over-valued due to production rather than ability especially when they feel they have in house guys who can replace or improve upon that production.

A more reasonable comparison would be them Trading Brady or Gronk after one of their all-pro seasons. And Brady is a stretch since he is a good 15 years past what would have been the end of his"rookie deal.". We can look at the Logan Mankins deal since he was considered one of the best and he ended up only playing 2 more seasons. He was only moved in his mid 30s after playing into the middle of a deal which when signed made him the highest paid player at his position in the game.

The Rams have nobody in house that can come close to even resembling let along replacing AD. On top of that if you look at what the Pats got for those guys would you be happy trading the man for a Tim Wright and a mid round pick? Perhaps a Johnathan Cooper who is released a few games later and a conditional 3rd?

Point is never dump a player to just try to save money. Pay the man what he is worth, with a salary cap of over 160m a 20m/year deal is not backbreaking.