Griffin might not be worth what we thought.

[steferfootball]

Peyton Manning: PLEASE RETIRE!

I mean he is one of my favorite QBs, but I will like him more if he is retired.

 

[Stranger]

@richeisen

Just had chat with Rams GM Les Snead. Sure sounded like he wants 3 first-rounders for #2 pick. Podcast will post later iTunes/NFL.com

 

[Yamahopper]

What I'm questioning on trading the 2nd pick is where is the offers for Kalil? A elite LT is a rare commodity, they have always been targets of teams trading up like the Rams did for Pace. Either the RGIII talk has blurred this or maybe he's not viewed as elite.
But still I think there might be a team or two willing to step up for him.

Do you think that the value of Kalil and Grffin would be the same in regards to what the Rams could expect in return for the opportunity to draft either?

I still think you're going to get more from someone looking for a "franchise" QB.

I think the QB has more value. To me there seems to be more elite QB's than LT's which helps inflate a LT's draft value. Lets use the Rams as a example, they traded up for Pace and were rewarded with one of the best LT's ever. To try to replace him they have spent two 1st round picks and a 2nd and have never came close. If they don't trade out of the 2nd pick they may spend another 1st rounder trying to solidify that position. That's a lot, 3firsts and a 2nd will get you a really good QB in a trade. And other teams have had the same issues at LT.

The way I reason this is.
Everyone that knows what a football is knows we won't draft RGIII. Rams lose some leverage in that so there has to be multiple trade partners to get max value otherwise it's a soft sale. But the Rams could take Kalil if there not gruntled with the offers.
If the market for RGIII doesn't develop due to FA or other reasons there still should be a very active market for that pick so a team lacking a elite LT would be tempted to move up.

RGIII value > Kalil but the trade value can't fall below the level of the best LT prospect in 10 years. Rams get a load of picks either way.

 

[bluecoconuts]

So what happens if Manning stays with the Colts? I know it's basically done that he is out of Indy, but I heard that the Colts are debating restructuring his contract and keeping him, so what if? Then they take Kalil at #1.

So does the #2 pick value go up because there is Luck sitting there? or down because teams know that there is still RG3 on the board?

 

[-X-]

That 1997 draft that had the Rams jump from 6 to 1 to get Pace has all sorts of really interesting angles.

1. They could have stayed right where they were and picked Walter Jones (some say equally as good as Pace)
2. Jets wouldn't have traded that pick if Peyton Manning didn't decide to go back to Tennessee instead. And Peyton would have been a Jet.
3. The only QB drafted in the first round in 1997 was Jim (lol) Druckenmiller. And he 'fell' to 26.
4. You have to wonder where Pace would have been ranked in the *1998* draft with Peyton and Leaf there. Yeah, Leaf turned out to be a dud, but he certainly wasn't projected to be a dud.

 

[Yamahopper]

So what happens if Manning stays with the Colts? I know it's basically done that he is out of Indy, but I heard that the Colts are debating restructuring his contract and keeping him, so what if? Then they take Kalil at #1.

So does the #2 pick value go up because there is Luck sitting there? or down because teams know that there is still RG3 on the board?

@&*^ You just had to ask that question.

I think total comp. could rise a little. Some teams like the Browns would pay more for Luck. Other teams might want in too based on Luck being thought of as " This years best QB prospect since whenever". He also would be seen as a safer pick.

But with the 2 top QB's on the board it would be a tough sale.

If the Colts didn't trade out of that pick with Luck sitting there would be the most epic fail of all time. They would be ridiculed for the next 100 years.

Colts= Moron.

 

[-X-]

So what happens if Manning stays with the Colts?

He's not.

 

[Yamahopper]

That 1997 draft that had the Rams jump from 6 to 1 to get Pace has all sorts of really interesting angles.

1. They could have stayed right where they were and picked Walter Jones (some say equally as good as Pace)
2. Jets wouldn't have traded that pick if Peyton Manning didn't decide to go back to Tennessee instead. And Peyton would have been a Jet.
3. The only QB drafted in the first round in 1997 was Jim (lol) Druckenmiller. And he 'fell' to 26.
4. You have to wonder where Pace would have been ranked in the *1998* draft with Peyton and Leaf there. Yeah, Leaf turned out to be a dud, but he certainly wasn't projected to be a dud.

Kinda like if Bradford would have stayed in another year. Or if they wouldn't have fired Linehan and the Rams lost out and was able to grab Stafford.

Puzzling it is.

 

[-X-]

That 1997 draft that had the Rams jump from 6 to 1 to get Pace has all sorts of really interesting angles.

1. They could have stayed right where they were and picked Walter Jones (some say equally as good as Pace)
2. Jets wouldn't have traded that pick if Peyton Manning didn't decide to go back to Tennessee instead. And Peyton would have been a Jet.
3. The only QB drafted in the first round in 1997 was Jim (lol) Druckenmiller. And he 'fell' to 26.
4. You have to wonder where Pace would have been ranked in the *1998* draft with Peyton and Leaf there. Yeah, Leaf turned out to be a dud, but he certainly wasn't projected to be a dud.

Kinda like if Bradford would have stayed in another year. Or if they wouldn't have fired Linehan and the Rams lost out and was able to grab Stafford.

Puzzling it is.

Yep. It's kinda cool to go back and see how things *could* have worked out. A few years ago I did a re-draft of the Rams from 1993-2009 and listed all the guys they could have taken instead of who they actually did. It was a sick, sick roster. But that's not to say that they screwed up ALL the time (except 2005-2008). Sometimes needs had to be taken into account. Other times, they absolutely could have taken Marvin Harrison instead of Eddie Kennison.

 

[steferfootball]

That 1997 draft that had the Rams jump from 6 to 1 to get Pace has all sorts of really interesting angles.

1. They could have stayed right where they were and picked Walter Jones (some say equally as good as Pace)

It wasn't a good deal know what we now know, but Pace was one heck of a prospect.

The important thing is that we got a good player out of the deal. Beats trading for Tye Hill. :lol:

 

[bluecoconuts]

So what happens if Manning stays with the Colts?

He's not.

Well thanks for ruining my fun you ass! :box:

 

[brokeu91]

That 1997 draft that had the Rams jump from 6 to 1 to get Pace has all sorts of really interesting angles.

1. They could have stayed right where they were and picked Walter Jones (some say equally as good as Pace)
2. Jets wouldn't have traded that pick if Peyton Manning didn't decide to go back to Tennessee instead. And Peyton would have been a Jet.
3. The only QB drafted in the first round in 1997 was Jim (lol) Druckenmiller. And he 'fell' to 26.
4. You have to wonder where Pace would have been ranked in the *1998* draft with Peyton and Leaf there. Yeah, Leaf turned out to be a dud, but he certainly wasn't projected to be a dud.

Kinda like if Bradford would have stayed in another year. Or if they wouldn't have fired Linehan and the Rams lost out and was able to grab Stafford.

Puzzling it is.

Yep. It's kinda cool to go back and see how things *could* have worked out. A few years ago I did a re-draft of the Rams from 1993-2009 and listed all the guys they could have taken instead of who they actually did. It was a sick, sick roster. But that's not to say that they screwed up ALL the time (except 2005-2008). Sometimes needs had to be taken into account. Other times, they absolutely could have taken Marvin Harrison instead of Eddie Kennison.

You know, that's one I always wonder about. Marvin Harrison and Bruce together for ten years. What would have happened with GSOT? I think it's obvious that Holt would have never been drafted. If that's the case and we still had the #6 pick that year, we could have drafted Champ Bailey. How do you think that would have worked out? I love Torry, but having Harrison instead and Bailey is a much better situation. I've always wondered about that. Of course if we had Bruce and Harrison, we may have never fired Brooks in the first place. Or Banks may have done enough to get another year, and the Rams don't end up signing Green and having Warner as the #2. They may have never traded for Faulk, though I don't know how the two would be related.

Anyway, it's fun to think about.

 

[Faceplant]

This ^^ kind of thinking could keep me busy til September, haha. Back to the draft. At what point do we realize that we are not going to get the compensation we want for this pick and decide to just take Kalil (assuming he is the pick)?? Lets say Manning goes to the phins, and the Skins trade for Flynn...then what?? What motivation does Cleveland have anymore?? Makes me wonder why we aren't trying to nail down a trade partner right now...then again, maybe we are. I would be happy with Kalil at #2, so I guess it's not that big of a deal to me.....

 

[MerlinJones]

I still think that with all of the needs that the Rams have trading the pick is the teams best option.

In regards to picking Matt Kalil at number 2;
Look at the teams that have won the Super Bowl the last several years. How many of them had "elite" left tackles? You have to go back to the Ravens and Jonathon Ogden in 2001.
Now, that's not to say that the other SB teams didn't have very good left tackles (as most had at least one pro bowl to their credit). If OL is the way they want to go they could still trade down a bit and be able to draft Reiff from Iowa or Martin from Stanford.

It would be nice to have an elite LT, but it's not absolutely necessary to win in the NFL. If the Rams could get a very good LT via free agency and use their high picks on impact "skill" position players (Claiborne, Blackmon, etc...) I think that would be a better way to go. Just my opinion.

 

[-X-]

I still think that with all of the needs that the Rams have trading the pick is the teams best option.

In regards to picking Matt Kalil at number 2;
Look at the teams that have won the Super Bowl the last several years. How many of them had "elite" left tackles? You have to go back to the Ravens and Jonathon Ogden in 2001.
Now, that's not to say that the other SB teams didn't have very good left tackles (as most had at least one pro bowl to their credit). If OL is the way they want to go they could still trade down a bit and be able to draft Reiff from Iowa or Martin from Stanford.

It would be nice to have an elite LT, but it's not absolutely necessary to win in the NFL. If the Rams could get a very good LT via free agency and use their high picks on impact "skill" position players (Claiborne, Blackmon, etc...) I think that would be a better way to go. Just my opinion.

I tend to agree for a couple of reasons.

1. This team is lacking in playmakers, and has lacked for some time now. Whether that means Blackmon, Clairborne or Richardson, one of those dudes has to be added to bring a 'dynamic' element to this team.

2. Fisher has said, on a few occasions, that they can get linemen anywhere in the draft, and they have confidence in their coaching to bring them along. I just don't see them forgoing a skill-position player to get a lineman at #2. I know he'd be a fixture at LT for years and years, and Fisher said he wants to 'keep the QB upright', but I think they can accomplish that with a solid running game. coughRichardsoncough. Keep pushing your weight around on the ground, and then after you've punished the opposing DL, play-action pass.

 

[Cullen Bryant]

I'm not worried about it right now, it's to early. The Rams are asking for the sun, the moon and the stars and teams are countering with a 1976 Ford Pinto. Thats just part of the game that has to be played 2 months before the draft. Of course Cleveland is going to say the don't want to give the 22nd pick right now but that deosn't mean they won't when it's time to shyte or get off the pot. There will still be a market for Griffen even if Washington bows out which I don't think they will. I just can't see them passing on Griffen so they can invest a bunch of money and 4 or 5 years to Matt Flynn or Kyle Orten.

I'm more interested in the rising stock of Tannehill, I hope it keeps rising, if the Rams trade down to 4 or 6 and then another team jumps to #3 for Tannehill, Kalil would fall to the Rams because neither Cle or TB needs a LT. There's a long way to go and a lot of things can change between now an the draft but there will always be a market for a franchise qb.