Griffin might not be worth what we thought.

[-X-]

... according to Sando.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... erall-pick

He thinks there's only 3 teams that need a QB (CLE, WSH, MIA), and the Browns may not be that interested. At least not to the extent Washington is. Sounds like Snyder is going to be our only option. The Rams would like him to pony up, but he won't have to if no one else wants to go to war with him. If the Browns aren't interested, and Miami is still pissed about losing Fisher, then Washington may be the only option.

Thoughts?

 

[Stranger]

Posturing.

If Cleveland doesn't make an obvious and assertive attempt to get RGIII, then Browns fans will bite the heads off of management & coaches. Browns are in a squeeze, no matter what media fronts say.

 

[-X-]

Posturing.

If Cleveland doesn't make an obvious and assertive attempt to get RGIII, then Browns fans will bite the heads off of management & coaches. Browns are in a squeeze, no matter what media fronts say.

Possibly. But John Czarnecki of Fox Sports raised an interesting point.

Holmgren's coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RG3. Their talk of him being Michael Vick-like doesn’t create confidence with Holmgren. Nor does it help him that GM Tom Heckert has been out of commission because of a serious illness.

Fans of NFL teams are disappointed all the time. Hell, Jets fans are on suicide watch every April. And the "Dawg Pound" will get over it if they go in a different direction. It's all about what Holmgren and that front office thinks is the best solution for the team. Jacksonville fans REALLY wanted Tebow, but Jax didn't succumb to public outcry.

Just something to chew on.

 

[joeybittick]

... according to Sando.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... erall-pick

He thinks there's only 3 teams that need a QB (CLE, WSH, MIA), and the Browns may not be that interested. At least not to the extent Washington is. Sounds like Snyder is going to be our only option. The Rams would like him to pony up, but he won't have to if no one else wants to go to war with him. If the Browns aren't interested, and Miami is still pissed about losing Fisher, then Washington may be the only option.

Thoughts?

I wonder about the validity of the Dolphins angle...

If a team really thinks RG3 (or any player) is a franchise altering player, do you really think they would allow their sore feelings over losing out on someone (be it a HC or a FA or whatever) impact what is best for their franchise? That sounds preposterous to me. It sounds like the someone needed a new angle on a slow news day so they "reported"/posited this.

Can you imagine that scenario?

GM: We need RG3, we should try to trade up with St. Louis for him.

OWNER: Yeah, we do need him... but didn't Jeff Fisher choose St. Louis over us?

HC: Uh... yeah that is why you hired me...

OWNER: Right, I remember now. I guess that means we wont be getting RG3?

GM: I don't see how the two are connected :?!:

OWNER: Well, my feelings are still hurt that Fisher chose them over me. And I am even more mad that they dared compete with us for him when I wanted them.

HC: But... well look at the bright side, you got me :bign:

OWNER: They made me mad so no franchise QB! That is final!

GM: But he could...

OWNER: I have spoken!

HC: But...

OWNER: SPOKEN!

I would go on but it is too stupid to continue. It sounds like Michael Scott or something. So, yeah, I just have a hard time believing that is anything more than just someone filling up word count...

Though I do think that the Browns will be a no go. Holmgren won with Favre, Hasselbeck, and I believe he had some success with Dilfer, right? He doesn't seem to me to be the kind of guy who really believes in the whole myth of having to spend your #1 pick to get a franchise QB. He wasn't willing to do it for Bradford and he apparently loved him. So, as much as I would love for the Browns to give the farm for RG3, I have never really thought it would happen. If it does I will be extremely surprised.

So, as I posted in another thread... what if the BIG offer never comes? I still think they should take a lesser offer if it means they can still get their guy. If the best offer is only a 1st and a 3rd this year, why not take it if you are the Rams? Again, as long as you are reasonably certain your guy will still be their when you pick, of course.

 

[joeybittick]

Posturing.

If Cleveland doesn't make an obvious and assertive attempt to get RGIII, then Browns fans will bite the heads off of management & coaches. Browns are in a squeeze, no matter what media fronts say.

Eh, Holmgren did not get to be as respected is he is by worrying about short term fan unrest. I am sure (and I think I remember hearing stories) that people in Seattle wanted Hasselbeck gone after some early struggles. He had thrown all of 29 passes in GB but Holmgren stuck with him. If he feels the same way about McCoy, I am willing to bet he will stick with him despite fans' protest.

And it is not like he is going to have to deal with a disgruntled HC about any decision. I think that was one of the reasons he went with Shurmur. He was on NOONE's radar as even a possibility, but Holmgren wanted him. I doubt fans in CLE were overwhelmed by that hire. It was not sexy in the least, especially when there were rumors of much bigger "names" out there and guys in the booth they could have went after. I bet it was probably the same reaction there would have been from most Rams fans if they had hired some "no name" instead of Fisher.

So, yeah, I doubt it is posturing. And I have read articles from CLE media saying they must get RG3 no matter what. I bet those had as much impact on Holmgren as all of the STL media articles about how the Rams must draft/sign an impact WR did on Devaney and Spags before McD talked them into trading for Lloyd (as I believe was probably the reason for that trade).

 

[joeybittick]

Posturing.

If Cleveland doesn't make an obvious and assertive attempt to get RGIII, then Browns fans will bite the heads off of management & coaches. Browns are in a squeeze, no matter what media fronts say.

Possibly. But John Czarnecki of Fox Sports raised an interesting point.

Holmgren's coaching staff remains confused on what to do with RG3. Their talk of him being Michael Vick-like doesn’t create confidence with Holmgren. Nor does it help him that GM Tom Heckert has been out of commission because of a serious illness.

Fans of NFL teams are disappointed all the time. Hell, Jets fans are on suicide watch every April. And the "Dawg Pound" will get over it if they go in a different direction. It's all about what Holmgren and that front office thinks is the best solution for the team. Jacksonville fans REALLY wanted Tebow, but Jax didn't succumb to public outcry.

Just something to chew on.

Good point, especially on the Tebow thing. If ever public pressure was going to drive a decision, you would think it would have in the JAX/Tebow decision. No one in Florida seems to care about that team. I have relatives there and they only care about College Football so Tebow would have at least sold tickets. But they ignored all of that and took who they thought was best. I have no doubt Holmgren will do the same.

The only team I think would ignore good football common sense for the splash is Washington. And maybe the NY Jets. I still am curious if they would even consider it. Though I am not sure they have the resources the Rams would want to go down to 16.

 

[bluecoconuts]

If the return isn't high enough, stand pat. I think the Rams did themselves a disservice when they said they are trading the pick. They should have said "We really like Kalil, you better blow us away if you want to convince us to pass on him."

That would have forced teams to not only compete with each other for a better offer, but know the bar they need to beat is still high because the Rams really like Kalil at #2, so even if they're the last team in the race, they still need a good package.

 

[joeybittick]

If the return isn't high enough, stand pat. I think the Rams did themselves a disservice when they said they are trading the pick. They should have said "We really like Kalil, you better blow us away if you want to convince us to pass on him."

That would have forced teams to not only compete with each other for a better offer, but know the bar they need to beat is still high because the Rams really like Kalil at #2, so even if they're the last team in the race, they still need a good package.

I agree. I was really surprised when they said they were trading the pick. It certainly was a stark difference to how Devaney and Spags ran things. Do you think that has weighed at all into their seeming willingness to be more open recently? Do you think they are trying to show fans that things are going to be different than they were under those guys?

 

[-X-]

... according to Sando.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... erall-pick

He thinks there's only 3 teams that need a QB (CLE, WSH, MIA), and the Browns may not be that interested. At least not to the extent Washington is. Sounds like Snyder is going to be our only option. The Rams would like him to pony up, but he won't have to if no one else wants to go to war with him. If the Browns aren't interested, and Miami is still pissed about losing Fisher, then Washington may be the only option.

Thoughts?

I wonder about the validity of the Dolphins angle...

If a team really thinks RG3 (or any player) is a franchise altering player, do you really think they would allow their sore feelings over losing out on someone (be it a HC or a FA or whatever) impact what is best for their franchise? That sounds preposterous to me. It sounds like the someone needed a new angle on a slow news day so they "reported"/posited this.

Can you imagine that scenario?

GM: We need RG3, we should try to trade up with St. Louis for him.

OWNER: Yeah, we do need him... but didn't Jeff Fisher choose St. Louis over us?

HC: Uh... yeah that is why you hired me...

OWNER: Right, I remember now. I guess that means we wont be getting RG3?

GM: I don't see how the two are connected :?!:

OWNER: Well, my feelings are still hurt that Fisher chose them over me. And I am even more mad that they dared compete with us for him when I wanted them.

HC: But... well look at the bright side, you got me :bign:

OWNER: They made me mad so no franchise QB! That is final!

GM: But he could...

OWNER: I have spoken!

HC: But...

OWNER: SPOKEN!

I would go on but it is too stupid to continue. It sounds like Michael Scott or something. So, yeah, I just have a hard time believing that is anything more than just someone filling up word count...

Though I do think that the Browns will be a no go. Holmgren won with Favre, Hasselbeck, and I believe he had some success with Dilfer, right? He doesn't seem to me to be the kind of guy who really believes in the whole myth of having to spend your #1 pick to get a franchise QB. He wasn't willing to do it for Bradford and he apparently loved him. So, as much as I would love for the Browns to give the farm for RG3, I have never really thought it would happen. If it does I will be extremely surprised.

So, as I posted in another thread... what if the BIG offer never comes? I still think they should take a lesser offer if it means they can still get their guy. If the best offer is only a 1st and a 3rd this year, why not take it if you are the Rams? Again, as long as you are reasonably certain your guy will still be their when you pick, of course.

Nice dialogue. Sounds like me and my wife.

"Silence! I have spoken."

That's always done in jest, of course, because The Dude needs to get some.

I agree the Dolphin angle is preposterous. If that's the way they're going to do business, then their fans are going to be really, really upset for years and years. Oh wait. Never mind. At least they still have the cork-popping ceremony every year. That's always cool. Morons.

Another (more rational) reason why the Dolphins may not want to part with multiple picks is because their coach, Joe Philbin, has ties to Matt Flynn. Also, they were rumored to be one of the teams eager to see how the Peyton Manning thing shakes out. Sounds like they're more interested in adding a QB via free agency, and continuing to build through the draft.

 

[-X-]

If the return isn't high enough, stand pat. I think the Rams did themselves a disservice when they said they are trading the pick. They should have said "We really like Kalil, you better blow us away if you want to convince us to pass on him."

That would have forced teams to not only compete with each other for a better offer, but know the bar they need to beat is still high because the Rams really like Kalil at #2, so even if they're the last team in the race, they still need a good package.

But then wouldn't that shift the focus to Minnesota? If teams think that Rams are sold on Kalil, then they'll go to the next team that would have RGIII fall to them. And Minnesota is already set at QB by all accounts, so that would give them the leverage instead of the Rams. I think they're handling it as would be expected. As vague as can be and open to a deal.

 

[joeybittick]

... according to Sando.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... erall-pick

He thinks there's only 3 teams that need a QB (CLE, WSH, MIA), and the Browns may not be that interested. At least not to the extent Washington is. Sounds like Snyder is going to be our only option. The Rams would like him to pony up, but he won't have to if no one else wants to go to war with him. If the Browns aren't interested, and Miami is still pissed about losing Fisher, then Washington may be the only option.

Thoughts?

I wonder about the validity of the Dolphins angle...

If a team really thinks RG3 (or any player) is a franchise altering player, do you really think they would allow their sore feelings over losing out on someone (be it a HC or a FA or whatever) impact what is best for their franchise? That sounds preposterous to me. It sounds like the someone needed a new angle on a slow news day so they "reported"/posited this.

Can you imagine that scenario?

GM: We need RG3, we should try to trade up with St. Louis for him.

OWNER: Yeah, we do need him... but didn't Jeff Fisher choose St. Louis over us?

HC: Uh... yeah that is why you hired me...

OWNER: Right, I remember now. I guess that means we wont be getting RG3?

GM: I don't see how the two are connected :?!:

OWNER: Well, my feelings are still hurt that Fisher chose them over me. And I am even more mad that they dared compete with us for him when I wanted them.

HC: But... well look at the bright side, you got me :bign:

OWNER: They made me mad so no franchise QB! That is final!

GM: But he could...

OWNER: I have spoken!

HC: But...

OWNER: SPOKEN!

I would go on but it is too stupid to continue. It sounds like Michael Scott or something. So, yeah, I just have a hard time believing that is anything more than just someone filling up word count...

Though I do think that the Browns will be a no go. Holmgren won with Favre, Hasselbeck, and I believe he had some success with Dilfer, right? He doesn't seem to me to be the kind of guy who really believes in the whole myth of having to spend your #1 pick to get a franchise QB. He wasn't willing to do it for Bradford and he apparently loved him. So, as much as I would love for the Browns to give the farm for RG3, I have never really thought it would happen. If it does I will be extremely surprised.

So, as I posted in another thread... what if the BIG offer never comes? I still think they should take a lesser offer if it means they can still get their guy. If the best offer is only a 1st and a 3rd this year, why not take it if you are the Rams? Again, as long as you are reasonably certain your guy will still be their when you pick, of course.

Nice dialogue. Sounds like me and my wife.

"Silence! I have spoken."

That's always done in jest, of course, because The Dude needs to get some.

I agree the Dolphin angle is preposterous. If that's the way they're going to do business, then their fans are going to be really, really upset for years and years. Oh wait. Never mind. At least they still have the cork-popping ceremony every year. That's always cool. Morons.

Another (more rational) reason why the Dolphins may not want to part with multiple picks is because their coach, Joe Philbin, has ties to Matt Flynn. Also, they were rumored to be one of the teams eager to see how the Peyton Manning thing shakes out. Sounds like they're more interested in adding a QB via free agency, and continuing to build through the draft.

Yeah, a lot of the speculation has them in on Flynn, and they would seem to have some weapons to entice Manning if he plays (Jake Long and Pouncey to protect him, Brandon Marshall and Davonne Bess at WR, and Thomas is supposed to be a decent RB). Plus the weather would probably be a plus for a guy at the end of his career :sly:

The Dolphins are another team I would be really surprised about if they made the trade with the Rams.

I do wonder about Tampa Bay though. I wonder if Freeman's step back scared them enough into reconsidering him? They did fire Raheem Morris one year after they surprised everyone and went 10-6.

 

[bluecoconuts]

If the return isn't high enough, stand pat. I think the Rams did themselves a disservice when they said they are trading the pick. They should have said "We really like Kalil, you better blow us away if you want to convince us to pass on him."

That would have forced teams to not only compete with each other for a better offer, but know the bar they need to beat is still high because the Rams really like Kalil at #2, so even if they're the last team in the race, they still need a good package.

But then wouldn't that shift the focus to Minnesota? If teams think that Rams are sold on Kalil, then they'll go to the next team that would have RGIII fall to them. And Minnesota is already set at QB by all accounts, so that would give them the leverage instead of the Rams. I think they're handling it as would be expected. As vague as can be and open to a deal.

Well I don't mean shut the door on trading, more like "We're willing to trade, but if you try to low ball us, we're more than happy to give you the finger and grab Kalil" type deal. From what it looks like to me the Rams came out and said "We're trading this pick, we'll take the best offer."... To me that kind of kills some negotiating power.

 

[Faceplant]

I am really starting to think we should take Kalil with the 2. Agree we should not have stated that the pick would be traded. What do we gain by pigeon holing ourselves? Unless CLE or WAS makes it impossible to resist, why not take the BPA who fills a definite need? If we trade with WAS, we would absolutely need to get a vet that fills a need, plus draft picks. That's just my 02.....

 

[RamFan503]

... according to Sando.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/post/ ... erall-pick

He thinks there's only 3 teams that need a QB (CLE, WSH, MIA), and the Browns may not be that interested. At least not to the extent Washington is. Sounds like Snyder is going to be our only option. The Rams would like him to pony up, but he won't have to if no one else wants to go to war with him. If the Browns aren't interested, and Miami is still pissed about losing Fisher, then Washington may be the only option.

Thoughts?

I wonder about the validity of the Dolphins angle...

If a team really thinks RG3 (or any player) is a franchise altering player, do you really think they would allow their sore feelings over losing out on someone (be it a HC or a FA or whatever) impact what is best for their franchise? That sounds preposterous to me. It sounds like the someone needed a new angle on a slow news day so they "reported"/posited this.

Bingo! Really? So would anyone in the NFL trade or deal with anyone else? I'm pretty sure there is not a team out there that hasn't had a player or a coach choose some other team over theirs. IMO - a real ridiculous angle on the story in search of something - ANYTHING to write about.

I also haven't read where the Rams have concretely said that they ARE trading the pick. On the trading block? yeah but duh.... did anyone really expect otherwise? They have said that if they are not happy with the offers, they will simply use the pick. So everyone knew that trading the pick was an obvious first choice. KD merely stated the obvious.

I also think the Vikings HAVE to know that Kalil is a real option for the Rams. And... if the Rams want to really play high stakes, they could just take RG3 for $22 mil and let the bidding begin in earnest, starting at interested teams' last rejected offer. Advantage - RAMS.

 

[libertadrocks]

I guess Les said today that there's a "90% chance" the Rams trade the pick. Makes me think they already have a pretty good offer on the table.

 

[Faceplant]

The Rams really should either trade this pick now or keep it. Why would we wait to see where veteran QBs land?? Doesn't that hurt our cause?? If the skins and miami get manning, quinn, etc...then why would cleveland even bother trading with us??

 

[brokeu91]

If the return isn't high enough, stand pat. I think the Rams did themselves a disservice when they said they are trading the pick. They should have said "We really like Kalil, you better blow us away if you want to convince us to pass on him."

That would have forced teams to not only compete with each other for a better offer, but know the bar they need to beat is still high because the Rams really like Kalil at #2, so even if they're the last team in the race, they still need a good package.

I agree. I was really surprised when they said they were trading the pick. It certainly was a stark difference to how Devaney and Spags ran things. Do you think that has weighed at all into their seeming willingness to be more open recently? Do you think they are trying to show fans that things are going to be different than they were under those guys?

I wouldn't mind saying that if they already had a framework for a deal in place. Let's say the Rams and the Redskins had preliminary discussions. If they know what Washington is going to offer, why not put it on the auction block to see if anyone else wants to top it. Maybe the Rams are basically saying, given the offers we have received we're already willing to trade #2...but the best team wins. It might actually be a media coup. Think about it...if fans in Cleveland aren't sure that the Rams are willing to part with the pick they won't be upset if the Redskins leap-frog them to get RGIII. But if there's a perception that the management didn't get him because they low-balled the Rams then fans will be calling for their heads. It might actually be media savvy...assuming that a trade is already in the works.

 

[RamFan503]

Maybe the Rams are basically saying, given the offers we have received we're already willing to trade #2...but the best team wins. It might actually be a media coup. Think about it...if fans in Cleveland aren't sure that the Rams are willing to part with the pick they won't be upset if the Redskins leap-frog them to get RGIII. But if there's a perception that the management didn't get him because they low-balled the Rams then fans will be calling for their heads. It might actually be media savvy...assuming that a trade is already in the works.

Extremely possible.

 

[Yamahopper]

What I'm questioning on trading the 2nd pick is where is the offers for Kalil? A elite LT is a rare commodity, they have always been targets of teams trading up like the Rams did for Pace. Either the RGIII talk has blurred this or maybe he's not viewed as elite.
But still I think there might be a team or two willing to step up for him.

 

[MerlinJones]

What I'm questioning on trading the 2nd pick is where is the offers for Kalil? A elite LT is a rare commodity, they have always been targets of teams trading up like the Rams did for Pace. Either the RGIII talk has blurred this or maybe he's not viewed as elite.
But still I think there might be a team or two willing to step up for him.

Do you think that the value of Kalil and Grffin would be the same in regards to what the Rams could expect in return for the opportunity to draft either?

I still think you're going to get more from someone looking for a "franchise" QB.