GREG ROBINSON – LEFT TACKLE, ST. LOUIS RAMS

[snackdaddy]

The OP makes it sound like an easy fix with the stance. If it was an easy fix I would think he woulda figured it out by now. At some point you gotta wonder if its ever gonna happen. Almost two years in and he's no better than day one. If he's this great athlete then his problems would be between the ears. And thats not an easy fix.

 

[Amitar]

Either he is incapable of learning or the coaches do not know what they are doing. It's one or the other. He has been playing 2 years now, that's time enough.
Change something now. Leaving him at LT is not the answer.

 

[Killgasm]

For you who want to move a Robinson to guard, the article mentions it would be a mistake because it will only serve as a band-aid to his technical issues.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

The OP makes it sound like an easy fix with the stance. If it was an easy fix I would think he woulda figured it out by now. At some point you gotta wonder if its ever gonna happen. Almost two years in and he's no better than day one. If he's this great athlete then his problems would be between the ears. And thats not an easy fix.

This

Either he is incapable of learning or the coaches do not know what they are doing. It's one or the other. He has been playing 2 years now, that's time enough.
Change something now. Leaving him at LT is not the answer.

And this

Two years and he can't correct his stance? Or Boudreau isn't teaching him to? I hate using high picks on projects, hate it. A first round 2nd overall pick should be better than this. Of all the players in the draft they only had on guy they couldn't pick. They couldn't find an instant impact starter? We aren't talking about a QB here and we aren't talking about a crappy class like 2010. This class was absolutely loaded with top talent. Enough with the Auburn connection and enough with athletes that have no football IQ.

 

[CoachO]

While this article is a good read, it's also an oversimplification of what is going on here. With all due respect to Mr. Bentley this is a propaganda piece in order to promote his camp.

If it were as simple as fixing the stance then most high school coaches could and would recognize it and voila problem fixed.

This has as much to do with preparation and just knowing what you are supposed to do on every play. Watch him break the huddle and notice his body language walking to the LOS. He has virtually zero confidence and it shows. I've beaten this to death in here, but until he figures out how to prepare as a professional player and stops thinking all he has to do is rely on his athleticism, all the "technique" work isn't gonna matter.

Pre snap recognition is non existent. And that is 100% a lack of preparation. Taking the things they work on during the week on the practice field and not utilizing it on Sunday is the problem. When he doesn't know what to do, he takes a false step, which causes him to be out of position, which usually leads to a holding penalty or just flat getting beat. Or he is slow off the ball which causes the "technique" issues.

 

[SuperMan28]

Fire Bo?

Make Fossil our OC? What?

 

[junkman]

OK, so I re-watched the Lions game, just the Rams offensive plays, zeroing in on Robinson. I know that Wagoner was really down on Robinson after the game, and why not? Two sacks by Asnah, 1 hold on Robinson declined, one crackback block. Seems like a terrible game on the surface.

I agree and disagree.

Let's do the bad stuff first. The crackback block, yeah, terrible. The hold, yep, did a do-se-do with the DE. There was also an a nice assortment of the usual Robinson complaints - lunging, off balance... where if he would just wall off the opponent, he'd do much better. At least one pass protect play where I'm not sure he understood his assignment and Reynolds popped out take on the DE (that couldn't possibly have been the design, could it??)

The "not as bad as it looks" plays - both of the Asnah sacks. The first sack I didn't even think it was Robinson's fault. Cunningham sorta blocked Robinson from blocking Asnah. Very strange. The 2nd sack looked worse than it was, Keenum was (as has seemed common for him) a good 10 yards behind the LoS, where Reynold's guy had walked him a good 7 yards into the backfield where the pocket should have been. With a well formed pocked, Robinson would have pushed Ansah beyond the QB (a bit charitable but I'm sticking by this).

Robinson does have his highlights. The drive after the crackback block (Robinson looked pissed), he stoned Asnah from a wide-9 rush and violently threw him straight to the ground. Legal and nasty. Didn't hear anything from Asnah for the rest of the day. He did this a few times over the course of the game on both run and passing plays. When he actually connected on people, he did it with attitude which I believe had an impact later on... which takes us to...

Gurley's 49 yard run. This was right after planting Asnah the play before. There was literally nobody within 2 yards of Robinson or 4 yards in front of him, and Gurley ran it right through that gap. Was this the Robinson effect, defenders tired of getting violently planted?? Also worth noting, Robinson was running less than 10 yards behind Gurley, impressive for a 330lb guy.

Phone booth stuff (like Gurley's 2nd touchdown), Robinson was just in the middle of the pack mangling people. He's definitely the guy you want with you in a dark alley.

I've been tough on Robinson and I'm still frustrated as h3ll at the lapses which are typically all that anyone notices for OL. But the potential is there if he can get consistent. More prep? More game film? More technique? I just dunno. But he's a heck of a talent - right size, right athleticism, right level of nasty - if only they can get him to refine his craft.

 

[shaunpinney]

Fix those problem GRob - go get help, it sounds like the issues are minor. Fisher get your ass in gear and make it so.

 

[blackbart]

OK, so I re-watched the Lions game, just the Rams offensive plays, zeroing in on Robinson. I know that Wagoner was really down on Robinson after the game, and why not? Two sacks by Asnah, 1 hold on Robinson declined, one crackback block. Seems like a terrible game on the surface.

I agree and disagree.

Let's do the bad stuff first. The crackback block, yeah, terrible. The hold, yep, did a do-se-do with the DE. There was also an a nice assortment of the usual Robinson complaints - lunging, off balance... where if he would just wall off the opponent, he'd do much better. At least one pass protect play where I'm not sure he understood his assignment and Reynolds popped out take on the DE (that couldn't possibly have been the design, could it??)

The "not as bad as it looks" plays - both of the Asnah sacks. The first sack I didn't even think it was Robinson's fault. Cunningham sorta blocked Robinson from blocking Asnah. Very strange. The 2nd sack looked worse than it was, Keenum was (as has seemed common for him) a good 10 yards behind the LoS, where Reynold's guy had walked him a good 7 yards into the backfield where the pocket should have been. With a well formed pocked, Robinson would have pushed Ansah beyond the QB (a bit charitable but I'm sticking by this).

Robinson does have his highlights. The drive after the crackback block (Robinson looked pissed), he stoned Asnah from a wide-9 rush and violently threw him straight to the ground. Legal and nasty. Didn't hear anything from Asnah for the rest of the day. He did this a few times over the course of the game on both run and passing plays. When he actually connected on people, he did it with attitude which I believe had an impact later on... which takes us to...

Gurley's 49 yard run. This was right after planting Asnah the play before. There was literally nobody within 2 yards of Robinson or 4 yards in front of him, and Gurley ran it right through that gap. Was this the Robinson effect, defenders tired of getting violently planted?? Also worth noting, Robinson was running less than 10 yards behind Gurley, impressive for a 330lb guy.

Phone booth stuff (like Gurley's 2nd touchdown), Robinson was just in the middle of the pack mangling people. He's definitely the guy you want with you in a dark alley.

I've been tough on Robinson and I'm still frustrated as h3ll at the lapses which are typically all that anyone notices for OL. But the potential is there if he can get consistent. More prep? More game film? More technique? I just dunno. But he's a heck of a talent - right size, right athleticism, right level of nasty - if only they can get him to refine his craft.

I think too often the good stuff is over looked, he has been terrible but better for periods of some games especially with Reynolds next to him. I did not like the chop block call, thought it was somewhat a make up call. Reynolds was pulling and the defensive player engaged him. Robinson made a nasty cut that took the guys legs. If anything Reynolds was trying to get away from the defender so that's why I thought it a bad call.

The second half he did seem to play better and showed some promise. It's there but like Coach says the prep work would make him so much better.

I want to see what he does in the off season. Last year he was in the facility recouping with Saffold, so he was putting time in the weight room. Its not like he was on the beach screwing off all winter. Maybe the light has come on and they will get someone who can show him how to study film, that should be on Bou but with the POS bargaining agreement they are limited so going outside the oranization seems to be the way for him to get better.

Too much invested, can't give up and moving him doesn't help the team.

 

[blue4]

I don't believe moving him to guard would be a band aid. He's more suited for it. I'm a better bass player than a guitar player. It was noticeable the first time I picked up both instruments. That doesn't mean quitting guitar for bass was putting a "band aid" on, it meant I'm more suited to play bass. Would moving him inside solve all his problems? No, but it would minimize his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths as a run blocker. Against every DT except Donald he would be more athletic than anyone he faces there.

I also find fault with the argument that we have too much invested to back out now. I would argue we have too much invested to stand firm when something is holding the team back from doing what it needs to do. You put the best five on the field, in the position they can best help the team. Their contracts for 2016 are a sunk cost. He's going to get paid whether or not he is a good player. May as well get some help from him instead of hindrance.

 

[thirteen28]

It's too bad Robinson can't go up against Quinn every play - he could hold like a mutha and it would never get called and we'd all think he was great!

 

[jrry32]

I don't believe moving him to guard would be a band aid. He's more suited for it. I'm a better bass player than a guitar player. It was noticeable the first time I picked up both instruments. That doesn't mean quitting guitar for bass was putting a "band aid" on, it meant I'm more suited to play bass. Would moving him inside solve all his problems? No, but it would minimize his weaknesses and accentuate his strengths as a run blocker. Against every DT except Donald he would be more athletic than anyone he faces there.

I also find fault with the argument that we have too much invested to back out now. I would argue we have too much invested to stand firm when something is holding the team back from doing what it needs to do. You put the best five on the field, in the position they can best help the team. Their contracts for 2016 are a sunk cost. He's going to get paid whether or not he is a good player. May as well get some help from him instead of hindrance.

Or we could listen to a guy that happens to know a ton about OL play and actually try to develop our talented young OT.

Fans, as a whole, have no patience for development.

It has nothing to do with investment. That's a sunk cost. It has everything to do with Robinson's ability and upside.

No point in creating a hole at LT if it's not needed.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Simply put, he's not progressing... one could say he's actually regressing.

Is it him? Is it the coach? Maybe a combo?

As far as the coach, I've not been happy with Boudreau since he started playing musical chairs with these guys... for a rookie, it only serves to overwhelm them (I seem to recall Robinson saying as much once or twice).

The physical abilities are there... I think it's part head and part learning... I'm leaning toward it's a coaching problem.

 

[RaminExile]

OK, so I re-watched the Lions game, just the Rams offensive plays, zeroing in on Robinson. I know that Wagoner was really down on Robinson after the game, and why not? Two sacks by Asnah, 1 hold on Robinson declined, one crackback block. Seems like a terrible game on the surface.

I agree and disagree.

Let's do the bad stuff first. The crackback block, yeah, terrible. The hold, yep, did a do-se-do with the DE. There was also an a nice assortment of the usual Robinson complaints - lunging, off balance... where if he would just wall off the opponent, he'd do much better. At least one pass protect play where I'm not sure he understood his assignment and Reynolds popped out take on the DE (that couldn't possibly have been the design, could it??)

The "not as bad as it looks" plays - both of the Asnah sacks. The first sack I didn't even think it was Robinson's fault. Cunningham sorta blocked Robinson from blocking Asnah. Very strange. The 2nd sack looked worse than it was, Keenum was (as has seemed common for him) a good 10 yards behind the LoS, where Reynold's guy had walked him a good 7 yards into the backfield where the pocket should have been. With a well formed pocked, Robinson would have pushed Ansah beyond the QB (a bit charitable but I'm sticking by this).

Robinson does have his highlights. The drive after the crackback block (Robinson looked pissed), he stoned Asnah from a wide-9 rush and violently threw him straight to the ground. Legal and nasty. Didn't hear anything from Asnah for the rest of the day. He did this a few times over the course of the game on both run and passing plays. When he actually connected on people, he did it with attitude which I believe had an impact later on... which takes us to...

Gurley's 49 yard run. This was right after planting Asnah the play before. There was literally nobody within 2 yards of Robinson or 4 yards in front of him, and Gurley ran it right through that gap. Was this the Robinson effect, defenders tired of getting violently planted?? Also worth noting, Robinson was running less than 10 yards behind Gurley, impressive for a 330lb guy.

Phone booth stuff (like Gurley's 2nd touchdown), Robinson was just in the middle of the pack mangling people. He's definitely the guy you want with you in a dark alley.

I've been tough on Robinson and I'm still frustrated as h3ll at the lapses which are typically all that anyone notices for OL. But the potential is there if he can get consistent. More prep? More game film? More technique? I just dunno. But he's a heck of a talent - right size, right athleticism, right level of nasty - if only they can get him to refine his craft.

I agree there is hope because there is talent. Part of that might just be me unwilling to consider him a bust because it would be so disappointing and set the franchise back again...but I think he'll get it am together one day soonish. A spell this camp couldn't hurt though if he was willing to get up early and work like a marine at boot camp during his offseason.

 

[junkman]

Or we could listen to a guy that happens to know a ton about OL play and actually try to develop our talented young OT.

Fans, as a whole, have no patience for development.

It has nothing to do with investment. That's a sunk cost. It has everything to do with Robinson's ability and upside.

No point in creating a hole at LT if it's not needed.

This is an excellent point.

With the Rams season lost, we should all be able to take a step back and watch Robinson more constructively. If the Rams were in a must-win-now scenario, scratching for a playoff spot, then impatience would be appropriate. But really, who do I want to watch play LT more than Robinson? (I honestly would like to see Battle play a few real snaps) Not every high pick LT is a Joe Thomas who kills it on day 1. Even pro-read Jake Mathews took a year before he was actually pro-ready.

I saw improvement from Robinson against the Lions, esp in the 2nd half. Maybe it was the Keenum effect. Maybe it was Reynolds. But at this point I'm looking for anything to build on here. If Robinson could even become an average LT on aggregate (better at run blocking than pass blocking), that would be huge for this team.

 

[blue4]

Or we could listen to a guy that happens to know a ton about OL play and actually try to develop our talented young OT.

Fans, as a whole, have no patience for development.

It has nothing to do with investment. That's a sunk cost. It has everything to do with Robinson's ability and upside.

No point in creating a hole at LT if it's not needed.

Creating a hole? There's already one there. He's not a good LT.


That guy, as Coach O pointed out, is also marketing his product.

Ability and upside doesn't count for anything if it takes him his entire first contract to be able to control average DE pass rushers. I think after Quick, Pead, GRob, Smith, Carriker, QBs drafted to play WR and QBs drafted to play safety, and all the rest over ten years it's time to find players who can actually play.

We should find a new solution for LT. If GRob's vaunted upside is all that, he should have no problem beating that guy out in TC. I don't see how competition for the job hurts the team. Guards are vital too. People act like moving him inside is the same as moving him to waterboy.

 

[blue4]

Bottom line, would we be satisfied with GRob if he had fallen to the third round, say for character issues like pot? Would we be so quick to excuse everything based on upside if he wasn't the 2nd overall pick? I don't think so. I think we'd be much more open to signing a FA or drafting a guy if he was the BPA if we didn't have the shadow of 2nd overall lurking.

 

[jrry32]

Creating a hole? There's already one there. He's not a good LT.

Except there isn't.

That guy, as Coach O pointed out, is also marketing his product.

And...? Gives him more motivation to do a good job. Can you point to any inaccuracies in what he said?

Ability and upside doesn't count for anything if it takes him his entire first contract to be able to control average DE pass rushers. I think after Quick, Pead, GRob, Smith, Carriker, QBs drafted to play WR and QBs drafted to play safety, and all the rest over ten years it's time to find players who can actually play.

Except they do count for something. Ability counts for everything. I'm not going to waste my time listing players that took time to develop. We already spent the pick on Robinson. We're paying Robinson either ways. Maybe we should try developing the kid? Regardless, I'm not concerned. NFL coaches are a lot less fickle than fans.

We should find a new solution for LT. If GRob's vaunted upside is all that, he should have no problem beating that guy out in TC. I don't see how competition for the job hurts the team. Guards are vital too. People act like moving him inside is the same as moving him to waterboy.

What hurts this team is wasting resources on that position. The Rams have only so many premium picks and so much cap room. Robinson gets another year.

I'm not giving up a QB to draft a LT. I'm not giving up a #1 WR to draft a LT. I am fine with the Rams signing a guy like Cordy Glenn who can be an outstanding OG and play LT if needed. But there's no reason for the Rams to actively look to replace Robinson. Fine with them hedging their bets but the Rams have far more pressing needs.

 

[blue4]

Except there isn't.



And...? Gives him more motivation to do a good job. Can you point to any inaccuracies in what he said?



Except they do count for something. Ability counts for everything. I'm not going to waste my time listing players that took time to develop. We already spent the pick on Robinson. We're paying Robinson either ways. Maybe we should try developing the kid? Regardless, I'm not concerned. NFL coaches are a lot less fickle than fans.



What hurts this team is wasting resources on that position. The Rams have only so many premium picks and so much cap room. Robinson gets another year.

I'm not giving up a QB to draft a LT. I'm not giving up a #1 WR to draft a LT. I am fine with the Rams signing a guy like Cordy Glenn who can be an outstanding OG and play LT if needed. But there's no reason for the Rams to actively look to replace Robinson. Fine with them hedging their bets but the Rams have far more pressing needs.

Yes there is. Unless by a hole you mean there is someone who just currently plays the position. I mean hole as its a position that's underperforming.

I guess these patient NFL coaches are just as dumb as everyone else. Seeing as how only Bentley can see what no one else sees. You don't think Boudrou hasn't pointed out the things in that little article once or twice in two years?

Who said anything about giving up a QB? I said draft a LT if BPA. I know we have pressing needs. I've never advocated passing up a better player just to replace Robinson. I said we need to try to upgrade the position. Huge difference. I don't know why the idea of competition for GRob is such a bad thing. I'm fine with signing a guy like Glenn too. I'm fine with signing anyone who can either shame GRob into playing like he is physically capable, or who can move him out and bring some consistency to the position. That's what is best for the team. If a LT is the best player available shouldn't we take him? Isn't that what we did with Donald and Gurley? I made the mistake of thinking that we should never look at QB when we had Bradford, just because he was Sam Bradford #1 overall. I don't think we should do the same just because we've sunk a high pick into GRob either.

 

[jrry32]

Yes there is. Unless by a hole you mean there is someone who just currently plays the position. I mean hole as its a position that's underperforming.

By hole, I mean there's not a player that can get the job done. Robinson can get the job done.

I guess these patient NFL coaches are just as dumb as everyone else. Seeing as how only Bentley can see what no one else sees. You don't think Boudrou hasn't pointed out the things in that little article once or twice in two years?

I think it's difficult to fix mechanical flaws when a player has to play a game every Sunday. And learning how to play LT as well as the playbook tends to take your focus away from other things. Do you remember Bradford talking about this a few years ago?(how some mechanical issues that he wanted to work on were pushed down his list of priorities because he had to learn the offense)

Who said anything about giving up a QB? I said draft a LT if BPA. I know we have pressing needs. I've never advocated passing up a better player just to replace Robinson. I said we need to try to upgrade the position. Huge difference. I don't know why the idea of competition for GRob is such a bad thing. I'm fine with signing a guy like Glenn too. I'm fine with signing anyone who can either shame GRob into playing like he is physically capable, or who can move him out and bring some consistency to the position. That's what is best for the team. If a LT is the best player available shouldn't we take him? Isn't that what we did with Donald and Gurley? I made the mistake of thinking that we should never look at QB when we had Bradford, just because he was Sam Bradford #1 overall. I don't think we should do the same just because we've sunk a high pick into GRob either.

Screw BPA. If there's a QB that I think can be a franchise caliber guy available, I'm taking him.

"Shaming" Robinson may not be the best method for his development.