Goff superior to Wentz (long)

[Ram65]

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2016/03/15/rsp-boiler-room-no-29-qb-jared-goff-pocket-presence/

It's worth spending the time to watch this. It shows a lot of Goff superior pocket skills at the college level. His vision, anticipation and quick feet are amazing. He tops it all off with a quick release and amazing accuracy.

Lot's of other interesting stuff in your post. This one really makes me get excited about seeing Goff in horns. Nice work on the post.

 

[lordbannon]

One thing I notice from the highlight reels- It seems to me that in Goff's case, the pocket is more cluttered, but the receivers are running open. In Wentz's, the receivers seem to be more covered, but the pocket is clean. I get the feeling its the defensive scheme since everyone knew Cal's line was lackluster and NDSUs was supposedly good (I've only watched the condensed NDSU games and don't know the opposing teams).

Doesn't say anything on either end, but in the big leagues both of them will need to deal with having a cluttered pocket AND covered receivers. I get the feeling Goff's ability to feel the pressure will be more valuable there, but maybe Wentz's scrambling ability will keep the rush at bay.

 

[Leuzer]

I know I’m late to the Goff/Wentz debate-fest, but I gotta get this off my chest.

To me, Goff looks special. Wentz looks like he could be “very good.”

If the Rams choose Goff, I will be thrilled. If they choose Wentz, I will be terribly disappointed. For those of you in the Wentz camp, hear me out, then please explain to me why I shouldn’t be disappointed if they go with Wentz.

HIGHLIGHT REELS: I was split between the two QB’s-- until I watched the tape. Over and over again, Goff has that WOW factor. After watching these two highlight reels it is hard for me to understand how people can think these 2 QB’s are in the same conversation. Wentz, with a CLEAN POCKET, throws with “decent” accuracy (receiver makes slight adjustment); Goff, sliding in the pocket as bodies crash around him, delivers STRIKES. Lots of highlight reels out there, but these two (shortish) clips highlight the difference in arm talent.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cEGafktM5r4



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7oT3PpE_Rw


ACCURACY. As others have noted, Goff just throws “dimes.” Unbelievable accuracy, and CONSISTENT. Heck, many of his incompletions and even INT’s bounced off his receivers’ hands.

ANTICIPATION: With Goff, just unreal. A special player. Another poster somewhere pointed out this one particular play-- an incompletion no less, from his “worst” game, vs. Utah. Just do me a favor: fast forward to the play at the 4:30 mark. PAUSE the tape at 4:32. Look at the screenshot. Then go ahead one second and pause it at 4:33. You’ll see what I mean.

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/jared-goff-vs-utah-2015/

POCKET PRESENCE: Goff’s Number ONE attribute. For those who compare him to Bradford—he’s the polar opposite in this regard. Based on a recommendation from max, I checked out this breakdown from Matt Waldman. Goff has amazing peripheral vision and footwork:

https://mattwaldmanrsp.com/2016/03/15/rsp-boiler-room-no-29-qb-jared-goff-pocket-presence/

RUNNING. OK, no doubt, here is where Wentz is superior to Goff. However—when I see Wentz run, I don’t see ‘special.” I guess I am biased against FCS level (division 1-A, whatever) competition. The word I’d use is “lumbering.” Mainly, Wentz does NOT look like a guy whose priority is to protect himself, he’s looking for somebody to hit and bowl over. Serious concerns to me about Wentz’ ability to stay healthy. Goff, on the other hand, looks like he can pick up yards when needed, but knows how to protect himself.

ARM STRENGTH: OK, this is the ONLY area where I watched Wentz and thought “Wow.” But the goal is to win a Super Bowl, not Combine Drill Championship. For me, this is the ONLY area where a case can be made to pick Wentz over Goff. If people think Wentz’s arm strength is so superior that it would result in a difference in how defenses play us—great, I’d love to hear it.

RELEASE: Again, with Goff, it’s “Wow.” I routinely think, “How did he get it out so fast?” Wentz looks quick, but Goff looks quicker. Goff just CHUCKS it, even on bombs, while Wentz seems to “wind up” more often.

PAJAMA OLYMPICS: Again, for sake of comparison, I present highlights from their Combine performances side-by-side. When I watch Goff, I think—“Wow, every single throw spot on, receiver never has to break stride.” Wentz: “Yeah, most of the throws are spot on, but he missed a couple.”


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oagfYhvOB6I



View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YIocD_0E0s


PROGRESSIONS: Over and over again I see Goff going to his third option and throwing a strike. Admittedly I’ve watched less tape of Wentz, just doesn’t seem to me I’ve seen this as much.

STATS: No comparison. Are you kidding me? Yardage wise, a career day for Wentz (335 yards or so) was an average day for Goff. And Goff threw for almost as many TD’s (43) in his senior season as Wentz did (45) in his entire career. (A cherry-picked stat, but still….).

THE NUMBER CRUNCHERS: The stat geeks have spoken, and they all seem to prefer Goff. By a lot. Found this article by Ian Wharton (don’t know him, but he took the time to catalogue every single throw by the top 4 QB’s during 2015). Wharton’s stats confirmed what my eyes told me: Goff’s accuracy was far superior to Wentz.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2604748-why-jared-goff-is-the-next-franchise-quarterback

And Football Outsiders gives Wentz a far-higher “bust” potential than Goff:

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2016/qbase-2016

RESUME: Wentz sat on the bench his first two years. (If he was “all that”, wouldn’t he have cracked the starting lineup sooner?). Goff was ALWAYS the Golden Kid, the Chosen One, and performed remarkably well as a true freshman on a terrible team. And Goff is 21, Wentz is 23.

LEVEL OF COMPETITION: Again, no contest. Admittedly, I have a higher expectation for Wentz—I don’t see that “man among boys” quality I’d expect from him in FCS football. SIZE? Yes, Wentz he seems bigger and stronger. SPEED? No. Wentz does NOT look NFL-level fast when going through his progressions. And here’s a key for me—how would the Bison do without Wentz? Well just fine, they went undefeated when he was out (I think). How would Cal do without Goff? I suspect they would fall apart. When I see Cal, I see a team with no running game, a porous Offensive Line, and a horrific D (I think Cal D surrendered over 30 points a game all 3 years Goff was there).

INJURY HISTORY: I acknowledge Goff separated his shoulder, and had a sprained ankle at one point-- but Goff never missed a game in either high school OR college. As for Wentz—yes, of course he missed 8 games when he broke his wrist as a senior. AND—one of the reasons he ended up at ND State and was not a big-time recruit—he lost an entire year of playing QB in high school due to an arm injury (played other positions instead). So to recap, for major injuries that cost significant time: Wentz two, Goff zero.

INTANGIBLES: I’ve watched the interviews with both Gruden and Mariucci for both guys. What I see: Wentz is smart and looking to say the right things. Goff looks like he “knows it” and doesn’t have anything to prove. I look at their body language at the Combine, and to my eyes, when Wentz nails it, I see “Yes, I knew I could measure up at this level!” and when he misses I see, “Dangit Carson, try harder.” With Goff, as ALL of his throws were strikes, I just see “Yup, confirming what I knew all along.”

BOTTOM LINE: When I watch Jared Goff’s college tape, I get the same reaction as when I watched Aaron Donald’s college tape. Many times I thought “WOW—how did he do that!??!!” And then, even more shocking, it becomes ROUTINE. The more you watch Goff’s tape, the more you realize he does the amazing REPEATEDLY and CONSISTENTLY. And it’s the same damn knock for both Donald and Goff: "Yeah, but he’s a little small for the position.” For both Goff and Donald, it’s demonstrably not true.

To me, Goff looks Super Bowls, Wentz looks Playoffs. Wentz has “It”, Goff has IT.

FINAL DISCLAIMER: I acknowledge I could be wrong about EVERYTHING in this long post, I’ve been horribly wrong about the Rams plenty of times. Maybe Goff is weak-armed and too skinny and he’ll have trouble adjusting to a pro-style offense and all his good habits will get knocked out of him. Maybe Wentz will be a solid stud for years to come.

But right now, I have my heart set on Goff, and I’ll have to drink lots of Kool-Aid if they surprise me and go with Wentz. For Wentz supporters, feel free to disagree with me, I know we all just want what’s best for our Rams!

I think these are fair, honest evaluations and I appreciate the effort you took on this piece.

I like how you described Wentz as a "lumbering" runner. To me he looks like Tim Tebow running with the football. Not a shifty player, but a physical one. Also, none of his runs really blew me away. For playing against a "lower" level of competition, I didn't see that many highlight runs (besides his TD dive in the 2015 championship game). Goff may not be able to take off down the field like Wentz, but with Todd Gurley in our backfield, and Tavon sweeping around, he wouldn't need to.

You mentioned pocket mobility, but I just want to point out that Goff's feet are always moving. With Wentz, I see him with his feet are set when his eyes locked on somebody who's waiting to get open.

I'll disagree with you on the release. To me I think Wentz is quicker on the release but maybe that's because of the zip he can get behind the ball. I think Wentz also needs to realize that not every throw needs to be rifled to the receiver. Occasionally he can lob it pretty well (TD vs Northern Iowa), but I think he tries to hard to fire it to the receiver.

I'm coming to the conclusion though that I think Goff should be our pick. I honestly don't expect Goff or Wentz to be that great if they are drafted by us, because of our lack of a #1 WR and our mediocre to bad O-Line (although, at the end of the season we saw some good improvement). For me though, I'd rather have the younger, more finished product right now instead of the guy out of a small school that could be.

Anyways, nice breakdown and thanks for posting!

 

[kurtfaulk]

I can see the extremely high floor with Goff, and I can see an extremely high ceiling for Wentz.

hmmm, snead said the number 1 pick must have a high ceiling. but also must have a high floor.

what to do, what to do?

.

 

[jrry32]

Accuracy: Yes, Goff is accurate. That's what spread offense stress. RG3 came out with a completion percentage of 70%. And? And I know completion percentage isn't accuracy. That said, we can't ignore 13 INTs. You look at that Utah game and I'll give him a pass on one of the INTs, but good grief, that D just read him like a book. I could care less if he makes an all-world pass on the same day he drops 5 INTs and loses the game. That misses the point. Yes, he's accurate, but he also has lapses and for a passer who relies on that as a pocket passer, that's important. As well, on his deep balls, far too often (I know @jrry32 linked a few good deep balls) Goff underthrew his receivers such that they had to ease up or alter their routes. In the NFL, he'd have had a LOT more INTs and there were several of his deep balls that floated that at the NFL level that would have gotten his receivers McLeod'd...just straight leveled.

I won't go into the numbers because that's a whole...thing. I'll just table that for now.

Wentz has the same "issues" on the deep ball and the numbers actually favor Goff as the more accurate deep ball passer.

As for the INTs, Goff has an INT% of 1.9% over the last two years with a TD to INT ratio of 3.9 to 1 while Wentz has an INT% of 2.5% with a TD to INT ratio of 3 to 1. Basically, Goff produced a better TD to INT ratio and a better INT% over the past two years. Now, the offense can certainly be argued as influencing it but knocking Goff for INTs isn't really a fair critique. Especially when you acknowledge that 5 of them came in that Utah game. A game that was clearly Goff's worst of the season. Which means that Goff threw 41 TDs to 8 INTs in the other 12 games.

 

[WvuIN02]

I think Goff has the chance to be elite. Wentz to me is a much worse Joe Flacco who is not nearly as good of a passer and a better athlete. Flacco had an elite defense so either one could win a SB I think, but I think Goff has the chance to lead a GSOT type of offense, and I dont see it vs Wentz. In the SR bowl he just looked "like a guy". Weber State is not Oregon

 

[TexasRam]

I see Goff as a far more developed passer, but am willing to concede that the Rams system is a better fit for Wentz.

Considering how horrible our offense was, why not scratch the system right now.

If it ain't broke don't fix it. And if it's broke, then fix it!!

I'd hate to pass on a possible franchise QB to get a system guy for a crappy system that ain't working.

Think outside the fish bowl Snishers.

 

[Mackeyser]

Wentz has the same "issues" on the deep ball and the numbers actually favor Goff as the more accurate deep ball passer.

As for the INTs, Goff has an INT% of 1.9% over the last two years with a TD to INT ratio of 3.9 to 1 while Wentz has an INT% of 2.5% with a TD to INT ratio of 3 to 1. Basically, Goff produced a better TD to INT ratio and a better INT% over the past two years. Now, the offense can certainly be argued as influencing it but knocking Goff for INTs isn't really a fair critique. Especially when you acknowledge that 5 of them came in that Utah game. A game that was clearly Goff's worst of the season. Which means that Goff threw 41 TDs to 8 INTs in the other 12 games.

And Wentz is better in the redzone as per the chart X linked with ZERO INTs and an over 70% RZ%. And I dunno that we can just ignore a bad game. That's part of it. A good D got to Goff and he didn't just have a bad quarter... he didn't adjust and kept throwing them all game long. And, if you watch, those were pathetically bad INTs... as others have noted, he's susceptible to undercutting and Utah really bated him and caught him just right. Reminded me of when the Rams had Favre's number and intercepted him 6 times in one game.

And THAT scares the crap out of me because I have faith that with our schedule, I have faith that virtually every team we face will be able to accomplish what Utah did. Not intercept Goff 5 times, but bate him with those looks with an underneath spy. Does he figure it out before he throws a bushel of INTs? I dunno. I would hope so (unless he goes to the 9ers)...

That's not to say that Wentz doesn't have something that defenses couldn't exploit. I'm most certain he does as well.

I mean, it's been acknowledged that both are imperfect prospects.

If anything, I'm taking a lot of your arguments for Winston and applying them to Wentz.

And you know what? As much as I hate...hate to say it, they were spot on. Winston WAS better prepared and DID have much better grasp of the pro game from day one BECAUSE of playing in a pro style offense. Wentz has 5 years in his system.

If anything, Winston threw a LOT of INTs his last year in college and you STILL argued for him and strongly. Wentz and Goff have very similar INT percentages. If anything, Wentz did a better job of ball security than Winston did and made better decisions within the system.

 

[jrry32]

And Wentz is better in the redzone as per the chart X linked with ZERO INTs and an over 70% RZ%. And I dunno that we can just ignore a bad game. That's part of it. A good D got to Goff and he didn't just have a bad quarter... he didn't adjust and kept throwing them all game long. And, if you watch, those were pathetically bad INTs... as others have noted, he's susceptible to undercutting and Utah really bated him and caught him just right. Reminded me of when the Rams had Favre's number and intercepted him 6 times in one game.

Okay. Wentz had better numbers in the red-zone in 2015.

I don't ignore anything. I watched every game against FBS competition that Goff played this year. That includes the Utah game. Each game factors into my analysis. But I have no interest in seeing people magnify bad games either. One game is one game.

You provided great evidence for that exact point with Favre. One game is one game. It doesn't define you as a QB.

I don't know why people on both sides of this debate are so set on creating holes and criticisms that don't exist in order to justify "their guy."

And THAT scares the crap out of me because I have faith that with our schedule, I have faith that virtually every team we face will be able to accomplish what Utah did. Not intercept Goff 5 times, but bate him with those looks with an underneath spy. Does he figure it out before he throws a bushel of INTs? I dunno. I would hope so (unless he goes to the 9ers)...

There were a number of college teams that could do what Utah did. Yet, Goff didn't throw 5 INTs a game. There were a number of NFL teams that could do to Favre what the Rams did. Yet, Favre didn't throw 6 INTs a game. QBs have bad days.

That's not to say that Wentz doesn't have something that defenses couldn't exploit. I'm most certain he does as well.

I mean, it's been acknowledged that both are imperfect prospects.

If anything, I'm taking a lot of your arguments for Winston and applying them to Wentz.

And you know what? As much as I hate...hate to say it, they were spot on. Winston WAS better prepared and DID have much better grasp of the pro game from day one BECAUSE of playing in a pro style offense. Wentz has 5 years in his system.

If anything, Winston threw a LOT of INTs his last year in college and you STILL argued for him and strongly. Wentz and Goff have very similar INT percentages. If anything, Wentz did a better job of ball security than Winston did and made better decisions within the system.

You're not taking my arguments. You're bastardizing them. My argument wasn't that Winston was a great prospect because he played in a pro style offense. My argument was that Winston was a great prospect AND he played in a pro style offense.

Yep, I argued for Winston despite the INTs because I saw things in his game that made me believe he'd be a franchise QB. I saw the causes of the INTs and decided that they would be corrected with time and experience.

Yes, Wentz did a better job of protecting the ball than Winston...but he did that in a different system against a different level of competition with different players around him. It's not comparable. Cody Kessler also did a better job protecting the ball than Winston but I still consider him to be a late round pick.

It's interesting because Wentz has some of the same lower body mechanical issues that Winston had. But Winston was a more polished player mentally and had better instincts/movement in the pocket. He was a better prospect.

I'm not here to evaluate the offense. I'm here to evaluate the players. I don't care what system you play in if you're not the same caliber of player. I certainly consider system in my evaluation but I don't consider it based on labels and generalities. I consider it while analyzing the film. The system is inherent in everything the QB does. I've seen a number of cases where a QB in a spread offense was more pro ready than a QB in a pro style offense because of what each guy did in their individual system and how polished each guy was as a player.

System doesn't tell you who the better player or the more pro ready player will be. It's lens through which you can frame your evaluation. The good thing about pro style systems is that you get to see more of the throws, concepts, and plays that are directly translatable to the next level. It makes your job easier. But there are spread systems that also give you plenty of those same looks. Goff happened to play in one. Or, I should say, Cal created one for Goff to play in.

Either ways, I have a lot of respect for your opinion, Mack. But I am growing a bit frustrated. I don't know why you've decided to come after Goff so much. I understand you're likely frustrated too. I've seen people throwing unfair and inaccurate criticisms at Wentz. Both guys are talented. Both guys have the ability to be great in the NFL. Both guys will be outstanding picks at #1. I'd rather not see people trying to poke holes in the opposing QB's game to justify their guy. There are certainly holes you can poke in both guys' games. Neither are perfect. But people tend to go overboard which leads to nitpicking and inaccurate criticisms (which are often generalizations).

Whether it's Wentz or Goff on draft day, I'll be happy. I'm not looking forward to the next 9 days of debate. Hopefully, people will ease up as we get closer to the Draft.

 

[jap]

It really doesn't make sense for either rookie QB camp to get chippy about this matter. The Horns are gonna choose one of these guys, and we will all have to live with it.

I love! QB's with laser sharp accuracy: Dan "the Man" Marino, Joe Montana, Peyton before his physical problems, Kurt "Special K" Warner, etc. Therefore, I would have no problem living with Jared as my signal caller. I see him using play action with the Gurley Express! and Tavon Awesome to allow his fly guys to get the edge on separation for relatively easy strikes.

At the same time, It would be intriguing to see what a QB with legitimate 'wheels' can lend to the emerging Horns' offensive scheme. We saw "Air" McNair and Eddie George nearly tie us in the 1999 Super Bowl, with the momentum beginning to swing to their end until Kurt found Isaac, "and their not gonna catch him tonight!!!" It would be nice to have a QB who can muscle the rock downfield and have Tavon run it down while outdistancing the entire secondary.

In a sense, the Horns' brass needs to see how beneficial each QB's strengths & weaknesses fits in to the emerging offensive structure and go with the one who projects to bringing the most overall good . . . while sharing the rock with a super stud feature back just beginning to approach his prime and a Swiss army knife WR/PR/RB with electric speed and quicks. Of utmost importance, can either of these guys take the Horns passer rating crown from our Johnny? Stay tuned until the 28th . . .

 

[Dodgersrf]

Well several things:

Highlight reels: Even Tim Tebow looked good on the highlight reels.... sorry, that wasn't helpful. Still, highlight reels really skew things. They do show what a player is capable of, but don't really help in creating a complete picture. So, if you want to get excited about a player, highlight reels can be awesome. For the whole picture? They're only good for a part and it's really important not to color outside the lines.

Accuracy: Yes, Goff is accurate. That's what spread offense stress. RG3 came out with a completion percentage of 70%. And? And I know completion percentage isn't accuracy. That said, we can't ignore 13 INTs. You look at that Utah game and I'll give him a pass on one of the INTs, but good grief, that D just read him like a book. I could care less if he makes an all-world pass on the same day he drops 5 INTs and loses the game. That misses the point. Yes, he's accurate, but he also has lapses and for a passer who relies on that as a pocket passer, that's important. As well, on his deep balls, far too often (I know @jrry32 linked a few good deep balls) Goff underthrew his receivers such that they had to ease up or alter their routes. In the NFL, he'd have had a LOT more INTs and there were several of his deep balls that floated that at the NFL level that would have gotten his receivers McLeod'd...just straight leveled.

I won't go into the numbers because that's a whole...thing. I'll just table that for now.

Resume: Carson Wentz was behind the winningest QB in FCS HISTORY. There was no way they were going to sit their 1, then 2 time defending champion for the arguably better player. That's not how the program operated and I totally understand that. Wentz could have transferred out, but he chose to commit to the program, really delve into the pro system and by the time he got his shot as a redshirt Junior, he knew it inside out and backwards. Let me be unequivocal and clear: Carson Wentz didn't sit because he didn't have the talent to play. That wasn't the deal at all. Nor was it the deal that it was EVER an issue that he couldn't beat out Brock Jensen. Rather, that's just now how the program was run. Now, you can think that Wentz should have transferred and played sooner because he believed in his talent. He chose to commit to the program and have faith that he would get his chance.

Injury: Yes, Wentz got injured. I look at why. That's important. In ND, there are a lot of artificial fields. As a matter of fact, Wentz broke his wrist on an artificial field being pushed out of bounds (on a pass play, to be clear). As a QB who did run, he took plenty of hits (something he'll have to scale back abit at the next level) and held up fine. AND, he played the whole game WITH that broken wrist. Is the injury part of an "injury history"? Not at all.

Intangibles: I think there is just too much personal projection to really address this. We see what we want to see and there was a lot of that. I like that Goff helped improve the Cal program in spite of a lack of improvement to the defense. Not that the D in the Pac-12 is awesome, but still. That said, I also really like that Wentz really showed up in big games. He was able to play in big games (much of that isn't Goff's fault, it is a team game) and Wentz led several last minute drives to win in the clutch in the playoffs....big time clutch plays in the playoffs. Wasn't that the knock against Peyton Manning? Couldn't perform in the clutch? As opposed to Warner who seemed to be at his best in the clutch? Not saying Goff can't perform in the clutch. I honestly don't know because he was never given the chance. But Wentz was and he performed brilliantly.

Anyway, it's fine to look at some vids and have things jump out at you. And you might not be wrong.

Remember, this is all meant to be fun.

I think after this is all over, I'm going to send Fisher a puppy to thank him. A really UGLY puppy with digestive problems...

Forget highlight reels.
Go back and watch actual games of Goff the past 2 years.
He has almost always had to play from behind. With no defense, offensive line or running game.

He's the guy we need to win a game when down in the 4th quarter.
Give Goff a running game, pass protection and a good defense and he'd be deadly for opposing teams.

 

[kurtfaulk]

Hopefully, people will ease up as we get closer to the Draft.

unfortunately it will only get worse.

i'm not gonna hang my hat on one of the qbs. i think wentz will be better for the rams right now but i have no idea if he's the better qb or not.

in the end the rams will pick the qb who they feel will be better for them and i will be behind them 100%.

.

 

[shaunpinney]

I'm torn tbh.

Goff has the consistency and pedigree, but the offense he played in is going to be nothing like the one here in LA. I think they're both extremely smart guys and should have no problem picking up a playbook, but you have to wonder if his amazing footwork is going to translate to playing from under center. My gut says it will, but it's a projection nonetheless.

As for who has the WOW factor, I'm going to have to disagree. Almost every throw in this game had my eyeballs popping out, it's just impossible for a defender to react and defend a ball with this much velocity when it's pretty much always right on the money:


Goff was the better college player, but Wentz just looks like more of an NFL player imo. Reminds me of Bridgewater vs Bortles a little bit. Scouts will love Goff, but the coaches will salivate over what they can turn Wentz into.

Because the Rams coaches have such good track history with QBs...

 

[Faceplant]

I was of the mind that neither of these QBs was worth the trade up until I really started watching and reading about them (and I started that BEFORE we traded for the pick). I can honestly say that I will be happy with either pick. Both seem to have very high football IQs and good size (Goff could use some weight). I love the arm on Wentz, as well as his smarts and ability to extend plays. I love the focus and accuracy of Goff. As the OP mentioned, Goff seems to have that "IT" factor....whatever "IT" is, haha.....I see it too.

I love the debate, but I almost feel as if I have read everything I need to read. At this point, I am just going to rock back and forth sucking my thumb until next Thursday. Have to trust Fish to pick the best guy for THIS team. I believe both QBs will be very successful in this league. I really do.

 

[shaunpinney]

I was of the mind that neither of these QBs was worth the trade up until I really started watching and reading about them (and I started that BEFORE we traded for the pick). I can honestly say that I will be happy with either pick. Both seem to have very high football IQs and good size (Goff could use some weight). I love the arm on Wentz, as well as his smarts and ability to extend plays. I love the focus and accuracy of Goff. As the OP mentioned, Goff seems to have that "IT" factor....whatever "IT" is, haha.....I see it too.

I love the debate, but I almost feel as if I have read everything I need to read. At this point, I am just going to rock back and forth sucking my thumb until next Thursday. Have to trust Fish to pick the best guy for THIS team. I believe both QBs will be very successful in this league. I really do.

Thats the big question isn't it - I just worry about Wentz getting hit on those scrambles in our division :/

 

[TheTackle]

If anything, Winston threw a LOT of INTs his last year in college and you STILL argued for him and strongly. Wentz and Goff have very similar INT percentages. If anything, Wentz did a better job of ball security than Winston did and made better decisions within the system.

I am curious, do you play Madden a lot? Where stats like speed and arm strength win out? Is there some Germanic connection I am missing? Were you a cheerleader in a former life? I understand you like Wentz, for exactly the same reasons as members of the 'NFL crew' and other posters here, but come on, you don't see a franchise QB in Goff? I like Wentz, but having read, watched and listened to the prospects themselves and those closest, it is not close for me. I would not trade up from 15 to 1 for Wentz. I would not feel as comfortable as you projecting greatness on to him

Consider this question... If Peyton Manning was in this draft, would you take Wentz no.1 because he is taller, faster and has a stronger arm, because he fits a system that ranked as one of the worst in NFL history, because he aced the wonderlic? I don't see too many flaws in Goff... I loved Manning coming out, wished we had the no.1 when Luck arrived, wanted Bradford, but would not have traded from 15 for him. If we draft Goff, I will consider this trade a masterful stroke

 

[LosAngelesRams]

Wentz is no Winston just because they both ran a pro style offense. Winston was a much better prospect coming out of college.

 

[tahoe]

A big problem I have with Goff is that he doesnt have a winning record. He is 13-23 in his career, now I know that's not totally his fault but it's still a losing record. This is just one guys opinion but it's pretty damning.
http://sportsnaut.com/2016/03/nfc-scout-jared-goff-hes-another-jay-cutler/
Wentz on the other hand has won championships his whole life. He didn't have the stats that Goff did because it was a different style offense.

 

[Ramsey]

I like Jared Goff more then Carson Wentz.

But I don’t care if I’m right, I want Sneed and Fisher to be right and strike gold. I’m so nervous about this draft pick, I feel like my wife is having a baby.

 

[FrantikRam]

I'm starting to see the flaws of both guys...

I was 100% Wentz at first, now I'll be okay with Goff. I'll trust this regime.

Goff seems to thin it scares me - what happens if Kam Chancellor comes on a blitz and decks him? Yet it's Wentz's injury history and style of play that would indicate he's more at risk to get injured.

Wentz played in a more pro style offense....yet from what we've heard, it would seem Goff was tasked with more responsibility.

Wentz is a proven winner and Goff is not....yet you can't ignore their level of competition.

Goff is more accurate.....yet Wentz has the better arm.

Wentz has the better ability to run....but that's both a positive and negative.

Both were impressive at the combine, although the combine took Wentz from 1st round pick? to Number 1 pick?

Goff played with better talent around him.....but not really....Goff's teammates were worse than their peers than Wentz's teammates....if that makes sense...


The reason I wanted Wentz was because he seems to have "IT"....and while I know it's a bit ridiculous, I think that determines how a QB turns out. But I am not an expert, and I'll be happy with either.