Goff and Wentz thread v1.35

[OC--LeftCoast]

I was hoping both would do well (Wentz and Goff) and I knew the guys who were saying Goff was more advanced and ready for the NFL then Carson were wrong. This link won't go over well here but here you go anyway.

http://www.foxsports.com/watch/the-herd-with-colin-cowherd/video/1032470595679

Well if Colin Cowherd said so then it just may be true ( see Colin Krapernoodle) just...don't go run and hide when reality sets in further down the road We'll agree to disagree

 

[fearsomefour]

If they'd left him in the game for the rest of the half we'd have a clue.

Maybe, maybe not.
There is no way to presume what's going on in his head. It's the leadership conversation all over again.
He got blindsided on the fumble because of a less than stellar play by a less than stellar RT.
If the ball slipped on the pic I'm sure he won't think about it twice. Had an open guy, saw him, ball slipped. It happens.

 

[LACHAMP46]

He got blindsided on the fumble because of a less than stellar play by a less than stellar RT.
If the ball slipped on the pic I'm sure he won't think about it twice. Had an open guy, saw him, ball slipped. It happens.

C'mon.....

We're old school ram fans....fumbling QB's....throwing picks in the clutch situations....don't believe your lying eyes huh?

Until I hear from McVay why he chose to not throw anymore, & run the ball 20 straight times....c'mon...we are left to assume, he was not allowed to throw and was sat because the HC saw something....probably a lack of confidence in his QB.

And....SMALL HANDS MATTER....you can't keep fumbling when you get hit. Throwing picks too?!?

That defense wasn't good...Their pass rush is one of the best in the league tho....it showed.

 

[fearsomefour]

C'mon.....

We're old school ram fans....fumbling QB's....throwing picks in the clutch situations....don't believe your lying eyes huh?

Until I hear from McVay why he chose to not throw anymore, & run the ball 20 straight times....c'mon...we are left to assume, he was not allowed to throw and was sat because the HC saw something....probably a lack of confidence in his QB.

And....SMALL HANDS MATTER....you can't keep fumbling when you get hit. Throwing picks too?!?

That defense wasn't good...Their pass rush is one of the best in the league tho....it showed.

If his confidence is that fragile cut him and move on because he will never be good. Not joking about that.
He may have seen a backup O line playing against starters in D still.

 

[LACHAMP46]

If his confidence is that fragile cut him and move on because he will never be good. Not joking about that.

I got a really bad feeling about this kid....Courage....Character...something you can't coach or teach...an inner strength. Winners have it...Like I've tried to explain...it doesn't take 3000 snaps...it doesn't take 18 games....I can see scared players....from the TV

To compare...give yall a visual....what do you think of Josh Reynolds? Is there any fear in his game? And how do you know this so soon????

Dropped passes discourage our QB....Missed blocks....then he throws that pick...the one to get us BACK in the game. For no reason....unless, the small hands theory is to be believed (which I do...why would they measure it?)

 

[Loyal]

I got a really bad feeling about this kid....Courage....Character...something you can't coach or teach...an inner strength. Winners have it...Like I've tried to explain...it doesn't take 3000 snaps...it doesn't take 18 games....I can see scared players....from the TV

To compare...give yall a visual....what do you think of Josh Reynolds? Is there any fear in his game? And how do you know this so soon????

Dropped passes discourage our QB....Missed blocks....then he throws that pick...the one to get us BACK in the game. For no reason....unless, the small hands theory is to be believed (which I do...why would they measure it?)

C'mon bro, Goff is not nearly as bad as post-phantom-sack Jim Everett..Ask Chrissy, he'll tell ya!

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

C'mon.....

We're old school ram fans....fumbling QB's....throwing picks in the clutch situations....don't believe your lying eyes huh?

Until I hear from McVay why he chose to not throw anymore, & run the ball 20 straight times....c'mon...we are left to assume, he was not allowed to throw and was sat because the HC saw something....probably a lack of confidence in his QB.

And....SMALL HANDS MATTER....you can't keep fumbling when you get hit. Throwing picks too?!?

That defense wasn't good...Their pass rush is one of the best in the league tho....it showed.

Now Champ, Goff has the same size hands I have, I have NEVER been labeled as having small hands, I can grip a football just fine, I can also palm a basketball, the small hands thing is so lame, you should be better than that

Please, do yourself a favor, rewatch the brilliance of Bosa swatting the football while Goff is trained downfield

"C'mon man"!!

 

[Loyal]

Now Champ, Goff has the same size hands I have, I have NEVER been labeled as having small hands, I can grip a football just fine, I can also palm a basketball, the small hands thing is so lame, you should be better than that

Please, do yourself a favor, rewatch the brilliance of Bosa swatting the football while Goff is trained downfield

"C'mon man"!!

Yeah, the hand size thing is BS....Montana didn't even know his hand size because it wasn't anything cared about back then. Drew Brees' hand size is about as big as Goff's....Finding BS measurables like hand size is something stat geeks do to validate their jobs...

 

[LACHAMP46]

Now Champ, Goff has the same size hands I have, I have NEVER been labeled as having small hands, I can grip a football just fine, I can also palm a basketball, the small hands thing is so lame, you should be better than that

Little hands...lol jk
Maybe it would be tough to grip with Bosa baring down on you....IDK

Explain all the fumbles then? Fumbler in college....seems like a fumbler in the pros...and that throw...that pick. Looked like small, sweaty hands to me...no one around and the ball just slips??? WTF

Yeah, the hand size thing is BS....Montana didn't even know his hand size because it wasn't anything cared about back then. Drew Brees' hand size is about as big as Goff's....Finding BS measurables like hand size is something stat geeks do to validate their jobs...

Maybe it's a combo pack....most things are....perhaps it's the combo of small and very little GRIP STRENGTH....Drew is a workout warrior....probably has forearms of steal....Montana...you compared Jared to Joe Montana? If Montana and Goff have the same size hands....that's ALL they have in common!!!! I saw Joe play in college...you know what else he was??? Dangerous....serious winner....

PS, I saw Brees in college too....another serious winner.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Yeah, the hand size thing is BS....Montana didn't even know his hand size because it wasn't anything cared about back then. Drew Brees' hand size is about as big as Goff's....Finding BS measurables like hand size is something stat geeks do to validate their jobs...

I can agree that with all other things being equal, extra large hands are definitely not a detriment

9 1/4" hands are plenty adequate to grip and have complete control of a " properly inflated"
football

 

[fearsomefour]

I got a really bad feeling about this kid....Courage....Character...something you can't coach or teach...an inner strength. Winners have it...Like I've tried to explain...it doesn't take 3000 snaps...it doesn't take 18 games....I can see scared players....from the TV

To compare...give yall a visual....what do you think of Josh Reynolds? Is there any fear in his game? And how do you know this so soon????

Dropped passes discourage our QB....Missed blocks....then he throws that pick...the one to get us BACK in the game. For no reason....unless, the small hands theory is to be believed (which I do...why would they measure it?)

I get what you're saying but it is just a feeling, based on nothing.
We, as fans, have no way of knowing.
An individuals dynamic, their personality, hard to gauge.
Who knows where he's at? We don't know.
Half the time the "glue" guys for an O or D aren't big name players. It's the team dynamic. I remember an old interview where Warner said one of the most important guys in terms of team chemistry for the 99 Rams was Ernie Conwell. Kept guys accountable and kept them loose. Maybe that was just for Warner, maybe it was for the starting group as a whole. That is a simple example.
There are guys that have unyielding self belief despite less than top notch skills. Others have all the skills but are loaded with self doubt (why so many super talented musicians are addicts).
Even in this game I saw some good things from Goff. Still better than last year. Both Goff and the O as a whole.
So, as they say, it is what it is. Trying to diagnose what's between a guys ears from the TV is iffy business at best.

 

[LACHAMP46]

C'mon bro, Goff is not nearly as bad as post-phantom-sack Jim Everett..Ask Chrissy, he'll tell ya!

Worse...hasn't taken that amount of punishment...and acts terrified if someone comes close....and he's much slower than I'd imagined....

processes information slowly....and under pressure, forgetaboutit

Chris, err, Jim Everett is my measuring stick for rookies...I didn't want to put Dieter Brock expectations on them...Dieter was ROY too....but Jim's numbers were GREAT for a rookie....I liked the way he played too....we ruined Jim Everett.

 

[LACHAMP46]

I get what you're saying but it is just a feeling, based on nothing.

Just on eyes....remember the game when he was sacked by the guy that grabbed his jersey? I think it happened again, well it was similar to it...but it happened again vs the Falcons...It was strange to see a grown man pulled down by one hand....I thought it was weak...like no determination to make the play work..Just submit...give in. If it was any other player, we'd be pissed.

Did you really look at the sack? Did he fight for it? Did he have 2 hands on it? Did the defender really rip it out, or did he just punch it out??? I'm gonna watch the game again....and really look at that. He appears to just GIVE the ball away...and if Jim Everett had done that...man please...

The pass just cemented what I believed....Guy was shaken, rattled, timid, meek.....whatever....he isn't ready to win a damn game where the competition is trying to beat your brains in....don't know if we got a QB like that on the roster.

one of the most important guys in terms of team chemistry for the 99 Rams was Ernie Conwell.

Real monster that Cromwell....every ST....blocking...tough catches...I wouldn't be surprised at all....tough guys are always highly respected in football....wimps? softies??? Dudes talking about going the other way when a teammate gets into a scrap??? Your eyes and words say a lot....body language says the most.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

Little hands...lol jk
Maybe it would be tough to grip with Bosa baring down on you....IDK

Explain all the fumbles then? Fumbler in college....seems like a fumbler in the pros...and that throw...that pick. Looked like small, sweaty hands to me...no one around and the ball just slips??? WTF
Maybe it's a combo pack....most things are....perhaps it's the combo of small and very little GRIP STRENGTH....Drew is a workout warrior....probably has forearms of steal....Montana...you compared Jared to Joe Montana? If Montana and Goff have the same size hands....that's ALL they have in common!!!! I saw Joe play in college...you know what else he was??? Dangerous....serious winner....

PS, I saw Brees in college too....another serious winner.

Alright, we really need to move past his days at Cal, of course you know those teams weren't that good.

You still haven't acknowledged the greatness is Bosa's "hand??work" That's fine. if I were the Coach, I'd be so far up Hav's fat ASS that at the VERY least next time he's made a clown out of, for Christs sake, spare your QB and tackle the bastard, under no circumstances. YOU CANT GET TOYED LIKE THAT INSIDE THE 10 YD LINE, OR EVER!! YOU BIG DUMMY (but, that's another discussion)

No, I don't fault Goff on the fumble...but I am a little concerned about his explanation regarding the ensuing pick, he said he felt the pressure and "came off" the pattern, in other words, he wussed out.(guess the previous series was still lingering)

To his credit, he owned up to it, say it won't happen again, to be fair, he still is only 22, I think I'm going to cut him a little slack here and allow McVay to "nurture" him thru this

 

[Mackeyser]

These Wentz vs Goff threads really need to be banned by now. It's repetitive garbage that's been debated to death.

Well if they'd just stuck with Austin Davis, none of this would be happening

 

[Memento]

Well if they'd just stuck with Austin Davis, none of this would be happening

Screw Davis; they should've kept Keith Null!

 

[Memento]

In all seriousness, though, Goff will be fine. I was a Wentz person, but I'm perfectly fine with Goff. He's going to have games like this. So is Wentz. So is any young quarterback.

 

[LACHAMP46]

Alright, we really need to move past his days at Cal, of course you know those teams weren't that good.

You still haven't acknowledged the greatness is Bosa's "hand??work" That's fine. if I were the Coach, I'd be so far up Hav's fat ASS that at the VERY least next time he's made a clown out of, for Christs sake, spare your QB and tackle the bastard, under no circumstances.

He's been doing it since then...so there is a pattern...some history...to give my views some context.
Hav has been a problem for 3 weeks....hell count last year too, 1 year and 3 weeks....If he hasn't gotten it by know...

I hate linemen that allow a sack rather than get a hold...when I played line...yep, I was a big ugly at 11...the coach ( the QB's dad) said no one touches the QB....you do anything....if you get beat...you do something else...grab, hold, trip, spear....yeah, those are his words...don't let the QB get hit...or let the defenders get in his mind...which is why I wasn't so mad about G-Rob's holds...I understood...the shit that Havenstein and Brown pull week in and week out....SMH...don't understand.

No, I don't fault Goff on the fumble...but I am a little concerned about his explanation regarding the ensuing pick, he said he felt the pressure and "came off" the pattern, in other words, he wussed out.(guess the previous series was still lingering)

Dudes rip at the ball...become aware..spatially aware...know your surroundings...know your talent.....have the eternal clock...and grip the damn ball with TWO hands when climbing the pocket...that's a common drill...done in all passing camps...which Goff has been going to since 11 years old probably.

At least you acknowledge that was a wuss answer..."I felt the pressure....I, I...." wtf...be quiet...Let McVay do the talking. I said it a bunch...kid has talent....arm talent...nice feet...but his body and mind are built for flag football...not the NFL. Not yet.

 

[FRO]

calming oneself after getting rattled, is much harder to overcome...imo

My biggest concern with Goff is keeping composed after something bad happens. It seems to rattle him. When he's on he looks good.

 

[fearsomefour]

Just on eyes....remember the game when he was sacked by the guy that grabbed his jersey? I think it happened again, well it was similar to it...but it happened again vs the Falcons...It was strange to see a grown man pulled down by one hand....I thought it was weak...like no determination to make the play work..Just submit...give in. If it was any other player, we'd be ticked.

Did you really look at the sack? Did he fight for it? Did he have 2 hands on it? Did the defender really rip it out, or did he just punch it out??? I'm gonna watch the game again....and really look at that. He appears to just GIVE the ball away...and if Jim Everett had done that...man please...

The pass just cemented what I believed....Guy was shaken, rattled, timid, meek.....whatever....he isn't ready to win a damn game where the competition is trying to beat your brains in....don't know if we got a QB like that on the roster.

Real monster that Cromwell....every ST....blocking...tough catches...I wouldn't be surprised at all....tough guys are always highly respected in football....wimps? softies??? Dudes talking about going the other way when a teammate gets into a scrap??? Your eyes and words say a lot....body language says the most.

Rewatch it.
Our crappy RT let Bosa run right past him (which Bosa is going to do to a lot of guys) and Goff was downfield with his eyes. Didn't see him at all. He shouldn't have seen him either. The T has do his job. Goff never saw him coming and Bosa went after the football with both hands, not the sack. There is not a QB in the league who's hanging onto that ball.
Also, no two players I remember have been bigger pu***** in the pocket than Peyton and Brady. Their entire passing games were designed to keep pressure off of them. They both refuse to deal with it in the regular season. Don't hang in, throw it away etc. Brady ups his game in the playoffs. Peyton never changed, which is why he had son many bad big games.
When you watch a guy like Austin Davis play he is out running on all cylinders at all times.
Quick to tuck the ball and run, holds the ball, takes hits, doesn't slide etc. Is that leadership? Is that heart? Is that toughness? Or is it a guy compensating for a lack of top level skills? Meaning, long term, he won't be able to execute the offense as designed. It's easy to watch a guy like him and think "tough, fighter" etc.....and that's true. But, guys like that leave a lot more plays on the field than they make generally because they are limited.
Goff does not have the physical limitations.
To say he is lacking in fire or passion or leadership or anything else based on body language is silly.