For you Stl Post Dipatchers..Bernie speaks

[GoodBadUgly]

It amazes me people say Stan "stole the Rams from St. Louis" or whatever. Were these people not present when Georgia ruined a perennial playoff team, gutted them, moved them to STL and not only made the city pay for a new stadium, but made them sign a lease completely in the Rams favor?

And, you know, there's the fact that the Rams were in LA for half a century...

Stan might not have a lot of fans, but Georgia was the worst in my eyes.

This is EXACTLY why I took so much pleasure from this and posted. He booted me for trying to explain the above and called me bitter LA guy. He was sensitive about Georgia and thought she was a Goddess.

Every word out of his piehole about Stan feeds my soul with dripping irony.

Front-and-rearie stole my Rams, and now they're back. And now even Bernie is warming up to cheering them on in their rightful home from across the country.

Life is good.

 

[FarNorth]

Well there are quite a big difference in the Stan vs Georgia debate.

1. Georgia made no bones about that she was moving the team. Everyone already knew and she didn’t bash the people of La on the way out

2. Kroenke repeatedly said he wasn’t moving the team

3. He stopped Khan from buying the team when Khan publicly stated he was going to keep the Rams in STL

4. Kroenke blasted the city with fake biased studies to make up a reason to leave

5. Goodell, Kroenke, Demoff, that other guy that works for Goodell kept postering making the city go through the motions when they knew it was no chance to keep the team.

If you’re not from STL you wouldn’t understand the roller coaster us fans was on or the hurt and anger we felt when that report came out about our city.

I know it was hard for LA to lose the Rams too but at least Georgia for all her faults kept it 100 and didn’t lead the city on.

Sorry, I grew up in St. Louis, but I do not buy the narrative that Kroenke was a cynical manipulator. There are some other facts which the STL sports writers have hardly acknowledged.

The state/city sports authority which contracted with the Rams to come to St Louis and controlled the Rams' stadium refused to honor their contractual commitment to upgrade the exisitng dome to top tier status (by 2005, I believe). The Rams (with SK as minority owner) gave them several more years to do so. Same result. The city pushed the Rams into arbitration, seeking to have Rams pay for stadium upgrades which the contract did not require, and LOST. They then refused to honor the arbitration-- which would have required them to honor the contract. (In fact, they had other priorities for the stadium, such as conventions.)

It was at that point in time, not before, that Kroenke began looking for land in LA. Only after the LA project had started moving forward did the St Louis politicians decide to try to come up with an alternative stadium, which they would have owned, requiring the Rams (again) to be a tenant in a shared stadium (with soccer.) No one in their right mind would have continued to deal with these folks by entering into a new deal, again, on their terms in their stadium. Certainly no one with a contractual right to leave and a willingness to spend their own money instead of public funds.

As for blasting the city with fake biased studies, I read the Rams submission to the NFL. It simply noted other existing independent studies pointing out that the St Louis regional economic market was not looking all that great for future growth-- something obvious from the lack of support to upgrade the stadium and many other factors.

Don't mean to be contentious, but I am tired of one sided versions of this stuff. I understand the feeling when the Rams left, but anyone angry about it should consider reviewing the actions of the Regional Sports Authority for the decade before the team left.

 

[Dxmissile]

Sorry, I grew up in St. Louis, but I do not buy the narrative that Kroenke was a cynical manipulator. There are some other facts which the STL sports writers have hardly acknowledged.

The state/city sports authority which contracted with the Rams to come to St Louis and controlled the Rams' stadium refused to honor their contractual commitment to upgrade the exisitng dome to top tier status (by 2005, I believe). The Rams (with SK as minority owner) gave them several more years to do so. Same result. The city pushed the Rams into arbitration, seeking to have Rams pay for stadium upgrades which the contract did not require, and LOST. They then refused to honor the arbitration-- which would have required them to honor the contract. (In fact, they had other priorities for the stadium, such as conventions.)

It was at that point in time, not before, that Kroenke began looking for land in LA. Only after the LA project had started moving forward did the St Louis politicians decide to try to come up with an alternative stadium, which they would have owned, requiring the Rams (again) to be a tenant in a shared stadium (with soccer.) No one in their right mind would have continued to deal with these folks by entering into a new deal, again, on their terms in their stadium. Certainly no one with a contractual right to leave and a willingness to spend their own money instead of public funds.

As for blasting the city with fake biased studies, I read the Rams submission to the NFL. It simply noted other existing independent studies pointing out that the St Louis regional economic market was not looking all that great for future growth-- something obvious from the lack of support to upgrade the stadium and many other factors.

Don't mean to be contentious, but I am tired of one sided versions of this stuff. I understand the feeling when the Rams left, but anyone angry about it should consider reviewing the actions of the Regional Sports Authority for the decade before the team left.

I was going to leave this alone but now...

The city didn’t want to spend 700 million to upgrade the stadium when that clause still existed in the contract language. How many more times will that first tier clause come into effect. So after the Arbitration hearing which was legally the first time the Rams was able to get out of their lease and go month to month NOT to relocate the city decided to just build a new stadium without that first tier clause in it.

The stadium was 1.3 billion and the city was going to eat the rest of the money that was still owed on the old stadium that doesn’t sound like a city that’s hurting economically especially when multiple studies has shown that it wasn’t and isn’t.

As for the shared stadium thing that was always an option to use the stadium as soccer stadium too which meant more revenue more Kroenke. That was never mandatory or predicated on getting a deal done. I repeat it was optional.

The reason why the city waited was because the Rams where CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to stay until ABRITRATION that’s when they came up with a plan for a new stadium instead of a 700 million dollar renovation.

Georgia waived 10 yrs and took money instead of asking for the upgrades then the city put in 70 million in upgrades. Stan wanted 700 million not the city he said that it would take 700 million to make the stadium 1st tier and the abritrator agreed that’s why the city came up with a new stadium plan.

So once again no one is upset that Stan wanted to make his money somewhere else the fact that he kept saying he wasn’t moving the fact that Demoff and Goodell was saying the same thing and that we have now heard and seen evidence that they always knew the team was leaving is why the city and the fans was upset. He knew he was moving the team when he blocked Shan Khan for buying the team he should have said it then.

As far as a one sided debate it seems that people tend to forget all the years of declining attendance or all the black outs that happened in La and Anaheim before the rams moved. Or the fact that STL wasn’t even Georgia first choice to move the Rams or the fact that LA didn’t want to pay for a public funded stadium which was the reason she wanted to move in the first place.

I can go on and on all day but the simple fact is, Stan should have had the balls from the jump and said that he’s moving instead of beating around the bush, that’s the only issue US STL guys had a problem with.

 

[HometownBoy]

He's an opportunist who saw an opportunity. He may have facilitated their move but he didn't create the ordeal.

And in my opinion that's what makes him more dangerous.

At least Georgia had a loyalty to something. Kroenke is a chameleon, changing his look and tone to fit whatever gain he's trying to achieve currently.

Without him Georgia leaving is just a fairy tale. He was basically the final dagger in the back of LA fans because money, then he comes back lauded as a hero for returning to sap LA dry because he took all he could from STL.

There's no loyalty in that man, and I genuinely believe that if another more valuable option came up he'd do the same thing over. Why wouldn't he? He's done LA dirty before.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I actually thought it was a good article. You guys forget that he is writing to STL fans. To me what I get from his article is “hey look let’s continue supporting and watching the players and the new coaches we know what Kroenke and his nfl cronies did but let’s watch what’s going on now and here’s why.”

As a stl guy and a lifelong rams fan I can appreciate his writing because now it isn’t just the rams suck and that’s what they get type of style but now it’s more let’s dont forget all the years and emotional support we gave this team just because of the owner. It’s like the grieving period is over and now let’s support and root for the team. It’s a big difference from wanting the team not to succeed in LA to be like I told you so.

The problem is, that he should have been saying that all along.

 

[Loyal]

Please, no St Louis vs LA!

 

[Dxmissile]

The problem is, that he should have been saying that all along.

That’s true but as a writer and a fan he was doing both catering to what the people of stl wanted to hear and his own personal emotions at the time. It’s been what 2 yrs now the bitter feeling towards watching the rams for the majority of people have passed.

 

[So Ram]

First article of his I've read in a long time. And it reminds me why I don't read him. Dude is just full of hate. I mean we knock Fish here and all, but is it necessary to bash the dude 15x in his article? Does he have to preface everything with how wronged the city was by it all too, over and over?

I mean F dude. Let it go. Many of us did when they fled LA. But man he's just so into laying labels on everything and everyone it's kind of sickening.

Gonna go back to not reading any of his BS now lol.

Haven't read the article yet , but it's guys like him who have a Hall of fame vote. In football he wouldn't give Kevin Green his due.As an Ram fan it wasn't easy seeing him flourish in Pittsburgh.

 

[LesBaker]

It amazes me people say Stan "stole the Rams from St. Louis" or whatever. Were these people not present when Georgia ruined a perennial playoff team, gutted them, moved them to STL and not only made the city pay for a new stadium, but made them sign a lease completely in the Rams favor?

The city wasn't forced to do anything. And almost every lease is heavily in favor in some ways towards the team. The NFL learned that lesson from the Browns.

Stan might not have a lot of fans, but Georgia was the worst in my eyes.

Well there are quite a big difference in the Stan vs Georgia debate.

@Zodi just so you know Kroenke may be the least liked owner in the world. And I mean that literally, he is loathed by fans all over. Georgia was no peach (see what I did there LOL) and was a POS herself but Kroenke is her multiplied.

I just can’t stand Bernie’s style. It’s all a bunch of negatively stated positives. I have always hated reading his crap. Even when he was supposedly being positive, he was always being a pant load to someone.

He used to be decent many, many years ago. Something happened and he became a dick to everyone and his entire tone changed to the point he became essentially unreadable. He was a jerk with a pen!

It was at that point in time, not before, that Kroenke began looking for land in LA.

Don't mean to be contentious, but I am tired of one sided versions of this stuff. I understand the feeling when the Rams left, but anyone angry about it should consider reviewing the actions of the Regional Sports Authority for the decade before the team left.

According to Demoff the whole thing was in the works well before anyone knew anything. Do you know the timeline? Do you know the things that Demoff, Kroenke, Goodell and the NFL's lawyers said? It actually IS one sided.

Please, no St Louis vs LA!

It's not STL v. LA, it almost never is. The discussion is GF v. SK or just a discussion about Kroenke as a stand alone thread.

 

[Loyal]

It's not STL v. LA, it almost never is. The discussion is GF v. SK or just a discussion about Kroenke as a stand alone thread.

It' always ends up there, so I disagree strongly with you. Because details of why the Rams were allowed to leave St Louis will end up being mentioned and then Katy, Bar the Door.

 

[Zodi]

He's done LA dirty before.

Again, he's not the one who said "let me dismantle my playoff team and move them to my home town." He saw that a move was happening, is an opportunist, and bought low. Say he did LA dirty is like saying Georgia did STL dirty by not putting the Rams in a better stadium situation when she moved them there. Oh, wait....

I have no dog in the fight. I'm a non LA, non STL Rams fan. And I get why STL guys are mad at Kroenke. But what I dislike reading is all this hate for Kroenke, when not only did Georgia do something worse imo, but Kroenke has done more positive for the team as a majority owner than Georgia or her kids ever did.

And I can give you about 2.6 billion reasons why Kroenke has a reason to be loyal to the LA market.

I won't comment on this topic anymore, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes. We're all Rams fans when it comes down to it. 5-2 baby!

 

[Dxmissile]

I was going to leave this alone but now...

The city didn’t want to spend 700 million to upgrade the stadium when that clause still existed in the contract language. How many more times will that first tier clause come into effect. So after the Arbitration hearing which was legally the first time the Rams was able to get out of their lease and go month to month NOT to relocate the city decided to just build a new stadium without that first tier clause in it.

The stadium was 1.3 billion and the city was going to eat the rest of the money that was still owed on the old stadium that doesn’t sound like a city that’s hurting economically especially when multiple studies has shown that it wasn’t and isn’t.

As for the shared stadium thing that was always an option to use the stadium as soccer stadium too which meant more revenue more Kroenke. That was never mandatory or predicated on getting a deal done. I repeat it was optional.

The reason why the city waited was because the Rams where CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED to stay until ABRITRATION that’s when they came up with a plan for a new stadium instead of a 700 million dollar renovation.

Georgia waived 10 yrs and took money instead of asking for the upgrades then the city put in 70 million in upgrades. Stan wanted 700 million not the city he said that it would take 700 million to make the stadium 1st tier and the abritrator agreed that’s why the city came up with a new stadium plan.

So once again no one is upset that Stan wanted to make his money somewhere else the fact that he kept saying he wasn’t moving the fact that Demoff and Goodell was saying the same thing and that we have now heard and seen evidence that they always knew the team was leaving is why the city and the fans was upset. He knew he was moving the team when he blocked Shan Khan for buying the team he should have said it then.

As far as a one sided debate it seems that people tend to forget all the years of declining attendance or all the black outs that happened in La and Anaheim before the rams moved. Or the fact that STL wasn’t even Georgia first choice to move the Rams or the fact that LA didn’t want to pay for a public funded stadium which was the reason she wanted to move in the first place.

I can go on and on all day but the simple fact is, Stan should have had the balls from the jump and said that he’s moving instead of beating around the bush, that’s the only issue US STL guys had a problem with.

@bubbaramfan care to elaborate

 

[bubbaramfan]

No. I'm done talking to brick walls. :banghead:

FarNorth's post was spot on and said it all.. If you can't see why Kroenke moved the team at this point, and the culpability of the St. Louis City Fathesr and the CSA and the blame they deserve, nothing more I can say.

Put all the blame for the move on Kroenke. But the truth is, most of the blame starts right there in Missouri.

 

[Dxmissile]

Again, he's not the one who said "let me dismantle my playoff team and move them to my home town." He saw that a move was happening, is an opportunist, and bought low. Say he did LA dirty is like saying Georgia did STL dirty by not putting the Rams in a better stadium situation when she moved them there. Oh, wait....

I have no dog in the fight. I'm a non LA, non STL Rams fan. And I get why STL guys are mad at Kroenke. But what I dislike reading is all this hate for Kroenke, when not only did Georgia do something worse imo, but Kroenke has done more positive for the team as a majority owner than Georgia or her kids ever did.

And I can give you about 2.6 billion reasons why Kroenke has a reason to be loyal to the LA market.

I won't comment on this topic anymore, I don't mean to step on anyone's toes. We're all Rams fans when it comes down to it. 5-2 baby!

Georgia did worse than Stan. So Georgia said hey LA I’m not moving the team. Georgia blocked a sale from a guy that publicly stated he was going to keep the team in LA. Georgia said that LA wasn’t a football town and couldn’t support 3 teams.

The LA Rams was losing attendance for almost 2 decades starting in the 80’s they had numerous games blacked out. Georgia even tried to come up with a solution by moving the team to Anaheim to get out of the 95 thousand seat stadium so that the games wouldn’t be getting blacked out.

She tried to work with the local politician to get a new stadium built they didn’t want a stadium that was publicly funded during this time the state was in crisis because a lot of the manufacturing jobs was moving out and that was their primary source of tax revenue.

Yes she gutted the team got rid of a lot of high paying players but that was because she was moving the team and made no bones about moving the team.

I know a lot of people like Kroenke because he moved them back to LA I hear a lot of people say moved them back to their “rightful”home lol which I find kinda funny.

Georgia and her kids got this team a Super Bowl win and another Super Bowl experience. Had the Rams as must watch tv.

 

[Selassie I]

I knew this would happen at some point.