Fitting Tavon into the run heavy offense

[12intheBox]

The Rams have an identity. Its pretty clear.

They want to win with defense and a power running game.

The personnel matches up fairly well with that identity.

They have 'refrigerators' with legs up front. They have dedicated serious resources into the running game with Mason and Gurley.

They have Quick and Britt - massive WRs who can block. They are built to run multiple TE sets - and even Cook has improved his run blocking significantly.

But what about Tavon?

Is it just a miss or is there a place for him in a power running offense?

I posted earlier that he was the misplaced piece - but I think I may have been wrong. I think there is a way to use that kind of speed and elusiveness in the power scheme - and I think it plays more East-West than it does North South.

It seemed to me that Tavon on the reverse was a pretty effective play for us last year - even when he didn't get the ball.

How many times did we see defenders commit wide to account for Tavon only to open up the field for Tre Mason heading North South? (Not enough because Shotty would go away from it way too soon)

I don't know if decoy, punt returner, and 5 -10 touches a game is worth the draft resources the Rams used to get Tavon, but there could be some real value in the 'decoy' part.

 

[Faceplant]

I agree that there is still very real value in TAs ability, even when used as a decoy. If anything, this type of offense may open things up for him on game day. He won't be a 80 catch guy ever in STL, but he can be a utility knife in the offense for sure. Excited to see how Cig incorporates him this year.

 

[Robocop]

dude... sorry these posts are a bit irritating for me no offense tho. Tavon has been misused by an idiotic OC and was given crappy throws on crappy routes with no where to run. not to mention getting passes from backup QBs most his career. there's no such thing as a misplaced or needless piece on a team when a player has that type of athletic ability. this is exactly the type of offense Tavon would flourish in. run first play action. stacking the box and throwing on the single coverages where Tavon burns them. we can have the Tavon conversation after his contract runs out but right now let's just get a guy with a brain in there to call some good plays

 

[RamzFanz]

But what about Tavon?

"The way to use Tavon is, when the game is on the line with a yard to go, bench your running backs and run him up the middle for his only play that game" Brian Schottenheimer - 2014

 

[LosAngelesRams]

They just have to use Tavon like I do in my Madden connected franchise, 3 weeks in and him and Bailey are in the top 5.

https://daddyleagues.com/FITG2/team/stl/stats

:snicker:

 

[Rmfnlt]

It will be interesting to see how Cignetti uses him vs. Schottenhiemer.

The apparent change in scheme adds to the intrigue that is... Tavon Austin!

 

[RamzFanz]

It will be interesting to see how Cignetti uses him vs. Schottenhiemer.

The apparent change in scheme adds to the intrigue that is... Tavon Austin!

It's true. Schotty was so bad at using him IMO, the jury is still out on TA. BUT, if he isn't more productive this season, whatever the cause, not good. LOVE him on PRs, but he needs to be so much more.

I poke fun at Schotty, but TA was actually very effective in the run game last season. They just need to spring him better which this freshly minted o-line may just do!

 

[Memphis Ram]

See "The Smurfs" of the 1980's with the Redskins power run scheme.

 

[WestCoastRam]

Totally agree: Tavon definitely has a role in a run heavy offense. You're right about reverses but also look at the Jet Sweep. Not only does the Jet Sweep allow him to get the ball on the run but when we fake it - it holds the LBs and DE's for an extra second allowing more open running lanes in the middle for the RB.

As far as passing, I'd love to see him used more in bunched sets. I think we had some good success running screens (which you can argue is an extension of the run game) out of them but I'd like to see some vertical sets out of them too.

 

[RamFan503]

C'mon guys. Schotty was playing TA the only way he could with the small openings our O-line would create. What better way to take advantage of a quick footed, elusive open space runner than to run him right into the line and hope he squirts through?

I'm guessing - and it is only a guess of course - that TA gets used completely different this season. And I'll take a punt returner and 5 - 10 quality touches a game with that pick. If he is netting us plus yardage on returns and a few splash plays along with playing decoy on some others, I'm fine with the pick. I know people want game changers with that pick and so do I. Maybe I define game changer a little different.

You have to punt shorter or angle the ball to the sideline with TA back there. If we don't get silly penalties called, he would have a lot more yards on returns. You HAVE to mirror him on decoy plays. And if he is in the game, you always have a game breaking threat. Now if the O-line plays better and our offense clicks to a point where teams ACTUALLY have to respect it, TA will be just fine and we will all get those big plays here and there that every fan loves.

 

[WestCoastRam]

This is tangential to the run game but important to it. I would not be surprised we seen Tavon used occasionally in two-receiver sets as we did last season but I suspect we'll see this by the beginning of the year too.

Starting receivers: Bailey and Britt
Ace WR sets: Bailey moves to slot, Britt and Tavon on outside
Various bunch formations with both of them in it.

Remember, Quick's gonna be limited in camp so I think - even with an optimal recovery - he's gonna be brought along slowly and not have as much work in sets as the other receivers. As he comes on during the season, I could see Quick supplanting Britt.

 

[NateTheRam]

Break out year for Tavon. Finally he has a QB that can throw it to him.

 

[FrantikRam]

I think that his ability will be on display this year....but you won't be able to judge with numbers. I think he's almost better suited for our power running scheme.

Jet sweeps - in full effect this year. We should do this 5 times a game and fake it 10 times a game.

Split out wide - on running plays he can just take off down the field. They have to respect his speed so would be difficult for a CB to peak into the backfield and make a play in the run game.

Slot - quick screens, getting him out in space. We have not been very good at this, but I hope with a better QB (one who threw a TON of quick screen passes in Philly) and a more athletic offensive line, we can make this work.

 

[CoachO]

This topic continues to baffle me.

How they are able to utilize Tavon Austin has more to do with Tavon Austin, than it does with the scheme or design of the offense.

He is entering his 3rd year, and this far he has been unable to find a way to be a factor in the passing game. People seem to think that by somehow "designing special plays" for him they should be able to "use him properly". But more than any play design, its more about how HE understands how to attack defenses, and become more of a factor within the system. People are quick to point the finger at Schottenheimer. But its not by accident that he had more carries, than receptions last year. He just hasn't shown he understands how to get open as a receiver. And that is with 4 different QBs. It cannot all be about the OC or QB. At some point, maybe we say its the receiver.

The problem, and this has been discussed numerous times before, is that thus far, Austin isn't capable of being a difference maker when teams play zone against this offense. In his only real breakout game, Indianopolis inexcusably played straight man to man all day vs. Rams, and both Austin and Givens had huge days on crossing routes. The problem is, MOST teams don't do this against the Rams. So to simply say that he will be able to beat single coverage, IMO, is not looking at the big picture here.

The thought process to drafting him, IMO, was that he was going to be a quicker, faster "Danny Amendola" type. But that hasn't been the case. I have watched them try to run him on the option routes (arrow routes) and crossing routes in training camp, and he just isn't very good at it. And when forced to settle into the soft spots of the zone coverage, and being forced to virtually come to a complete stop, Austin loses his advantage. In the open field, or catching the ball on the move he is as dangerous as any receiver in the game. But he just doesn't have the stop and start quickness they envisioned.

Until Austin himself, shows he can figure it out, I just don't see why so many think they should design the offense around getting him the ball. He will have his role in the offense, but not like many seem to hope he will. I would venture to say, he will again be about the 4th or 5th best option on most days.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Maybe it was just as excuse, but I still recall reading somewhere that a member of the coaching staff said that the QBs just couldn't see him.

Let's see what happens now that they've got 6'5" Foles and the 6'5 1/2" Mannion behind center.

I'd like to see them put this kid in motion and at the snap have him streak straight down the field since most CBs would struggle to keep up with him, thus drawing safety attention opening things up.

 

[OC--LeftCoast]

This topic continues to baffle me.

How they are able to utilize Tavon Austin has more to do with Tavon Austin, than it does with the scheme or design of the offense.

Ha, don't try to convince many here about that

He is entering his 3rd year, and this far he has been unable to find a way to be a factor in the passing game. Shocking I tell ya People seem to think that by somehow "designing special plays" for him they should be able to "use him properly". But more than any play design, its more about how HE understands how to attack defenses, and become more of a factor within the system. Still not too late...we hope People are quick to point the finger at Schottenheimer. Of course they do, fans always know whats better But its not by accident that he had more carries, than receptions last year. He just hasn't shown he understands how to get open as a receiver.If he could only replicate the Colts game...oh wait And that is with 4 different QBs. It cannot all be about the OC or QB. At some point, maybe we say its the receiver. Say it ain't so

The problem, and this has been discussed numerous times before, is that thus far, Austin isn't capable of being a difference maker when teams play zone against this offense. In his only real breakout game, Indianopolis inexcusably played straight man to man all day vs. Rams, and both Austin and Givens had huge days on crossing routes. The problem is, MOST teams don't do this against the Rams. Dammit!! So to simply say that he will be able to beat single coverage, IMO, is not looking at the big picture here.

The thought process to drafting him, IMO, was Flawed? that he was going to be a quicker, faster "Danny Amendola" type. damn that pesky above the neck thing, sheesh But that hasn't been the case. I have watched them try to run him on the option routes (arrow routes) and crossing routes in training camp, and he just isn't very good at it. And when forced to settle into the soft spots of the zone coverage, and being forced to virtually come to a complete stop, Austin loses his advantage. In the open field, or catching the ball on the move he is as dangerous as any receiver in the game. But he just doesn't have the stop and start quickness they envisioned. Dammit "they" this is the one huge fly in the Snisher ointment

Until Austin himself, shows he can figure it out, I just don't see why so many think they should design the offense around getting him the ball. He will have his role in the offense, but not like many seem to hope he will. I would venture to say, he will again be about the 4th or 5th best option on most days.

Sorry Coach, I just couldn't resist.

Btw, absolutely spot on...Well Done!

 

[Mojo Ram]

I'm expecting a Pro bowl season as a punt returner from TA. I have no expectations outside of that. Most disappointing player in the Fisher/Snead era so far. No blue font.

 

[lockdnram21]

This topic continues to baffle me.

How they are able to utilize Tavon Austin has more to do with Tavon Austin, than it does with the scheme or design of the offense.

He is entering his 3rd year, and this far he has been unable to find a way to be a factor in the passing game. People seem to think that by somehow "designing special plays" for him they should be able to "use him properly". But more than any play design, its more about how HE understands how to attack defenses, and become more of a factor within the system. People are quick to point the finger at Schottenheimer. But its not by accident that he had more carries, than receptions last year. He just hasn't shown he understands how to get open as a receiver. And that is with 4 different QBs. It cannot all be about the OC or QB. At some point, maybe we say its the receiver.

The problem, and this has been discussed numerous times before, is that thus far, Austin isn't capable of being a difference maker when teams play zone against this offense. In his only real breakout game, Indianopolis inexcusably played straight man to man all day vs. Rams, and both Austin and Givens had huge days on crossing routes. The problem is, MOST teams don't do this against the Rams. So to simply say that he will be able to beat single coverage, IMO, is not looking at the big picture here.

The thought process to drafting him, IMO, was that he was going to be a quicker, faster "Danny Amendola" type. But that hasn't been the case. I have watched them try to run him on the option routes (arrow routes) and crossing routes in training camp, and he just isn't very good at it. And when forced to settle into the soft spots of the zone coverage, and being forced to virtually come to a complete stop, Austin loses his advantage. In the open field, or catching the ball on the move he is as dangerous as any receiver in the game. But he just doesn't have the stop and start quickness they envisioned.

Until Austin himself, shows he can figure it out, I just don't see why so many think they should design the offense around getting him the ball. He will have his role in the offense, but not like many seem to hope he will. I would venture to say, he will again be about the 4th or 5th best option on most days.

Bingo.Thats why I think Bailey will be used more in the slot. This isnt college or Big 12. Tavon cant get by with just his speed

 

[fearsomefour]

No matter the scheme having a guy with that kind of play breaking speed is a good thing to have.

 

[RamWoodie]

I don't read too much into what the Rams are doing except having flexibility offensively. Too think because they have Gurley means they go strickly to a power running game is basically jumping the gun.

Fisher is a "ball control" guy...but he also knows this is a passing league. The Rams are being built to be able to do both.

They are NOT specifically going to be a "power running" team.