Eagles confirm torn ACL for Carson Wentz

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Dxmissile

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Two out of three years is an issue

Wentz rode the pine in College until
His one and only starting season as a senior, anyone not concerned with durability issues is fooling themselves

C’mon DX, with your screename you of all people should realize this :sneaky:

Lol I’m not doubting what you’re saying I think it’s just too early to call him injury prone. That injury was a freak accident it’s players that couldn’t stay healthy and college and they get to the pros and don’t miss a snap and then there’s the opposite. So I don’t really pay attention to any of the injuries that happen in college. Look at Bradford had a shoulder injury never again has he had one but he sure has hurt that knee
 

bluecoconuts

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I believe the gap is so wide because of ...Wentz throws in significantly tighter windows....consistently. Guys are not wide open from a "McVay" scheme...and he's throwing downfield more....
Another thing is his success in the red zone.....haven't seen enough to have an idea on why....just know he is and they are more successful in that area.
Don't like the way McVay is "babying" Goff with the headphone thingy....Just don't...thought about it when I was watching the Pats last night...Seems as if it's a "crutch"....makes me think he's not as bright as Wentz....

Scheme always matters, what exactly do you count as a tight window? A defender over the receiver, or throwing it in the perfect spot? Goff can do both, but he shouldn't be dinged because he's throwing to an open receiver, it's not his fault that McVay has an offensive scheme that can get guys open. Tom Brady runs off of a scheme that gets guys open too. The redzone is a bummer, but that's more on McVay as well. Washington had redzone issues with McVay as their coordinator, that was always the "knock" on McVay. I too would like more success there, but I trust McVay will get better and better as time goes on.

You keep trying to knock Goff on McVay talking to him on the headset like Wentz isn't being talked to. I'll go back to Tom Brady, do you think he's too stupid? Because Spygate was literally about getting information to Tom Brady after the 15 second mic cut off. Not to mention that the argument doesn't even work anyway given that McVay was calling the play not audibles. I'm starting to question if you even watch the Rams games, because almost every play Goff is barking out orders with less than 15, 10, 5 seconds on the clock. I don't think that he's yelling out what he plans on eating after the game. Seriously, stop with this line, I've already corrected you on it once, so you can't claim ignorance here dude. It's called coaching, not babying, and given that McVay is teaching Goff how to read the field like a coach, that tells me that Goff has a very high football IQ. Morons like Chris Simms have their coach screaming the play over and over again because that's all they can handle. McVay gives Goff more information because he knows he can handle it, and he can. Because Goff absorbs football like McVay does. That indicates he has a high football IQ, not a low one.

I mean you might as well say that child A is smarter than child B because child A has a parent that doesn't help with homework and child B has a parent that does... Except for all you know child A has basic fractions and child B has advanced calculus.

Clearly opinion....because, the Goff I've seen under pressure isn't doing all that. Leading receivers open? Haven't seen that either.....significantly more accurate???? just showed the graph....and just the eyeball test says....guy throws into tighter windows more often...must be more accurate. Accuracy numbers overall are very similar....so, if one is considered inaccurate, they both must be considered inaccurate.

My comments on the chart reflected the game only, but Goff still has a higher completion percentage. Which one of our receivers do you think we should toss contested balls up to? Which one do you think has the skill set to fight a defender over a ball? Woods? That's about the only one, and I'm not even sure. Our TE's can't, I don't trust Watkins, Kupp probably will be great as he develops more, but he's not there yet. So who? Because Wentz has Jeffery. Wentz has literally said he had to learn that even when Jeffery isn't open, he really is because he can fight for those contested balls and come down with it. Which he does often. That's the type of receiver he is, that's the type of scheme the Eagles run. McVay doesn't run that scheme, the McVay scheme is about getting guys in space, it's literally the scheme, what it's known for. I mean I don't even know what I'm supposed to say here because you're comparing apples to oranges. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Goff can't do that, because you can see him fit the ball into incredibly tight windows, between defenders or only where the receiver can catch it. This is a skill set that both QB's have, and both QB's have done it. I mean the first TD Goff threw for the season was to Cooper Kupp with multiple defenders around him. Three in fact. Perfect ball placement from Goff. The reason why people like Kurt Warner will say that Wentz isn't the most accurate is because Wentz will miss those really easy gimmie throws sometimes and Goff doesn't. Again, I've already explained this to you. I'm not just making shit up and rambling on what pops into my head, I'm repeating what former NFL players, and analysts and others are saying.

The thing is Goff really didn’t face a lot of pressure in this game that stat is very misleading. Wentz was under pressure from the jump and he suffered a lot of drops from his receivers in this game like every game. That’s one thing Goff hasn’t had to deal with this year a lot of drops.

He had a whole second less to throw the ball than Goff but his deep ball his ball thrown in the air is much better. To me the biggest difference between Goff and Wentz is that Wentz wins games Goff as for now manages those games

Goff may have been under pressure less, but he still performed better when it was there last week. Other weeks Wentz has played better, it depends on the week, obviously. The adjusted completion percentage accounts for drops and throw aways, so that's not factored in. Once they took out every pass that wasn't "I'm trying to hit this receiver right here" that was not a drop they calculated it and gave that number. That means that last Sunday, Goff was able to hit the receiver he wanted to hit at a better rate than Wentz. Goff has had plenty of drops, I mean a drop is the reason why we're 9-4 and not 10-3. The air yards is more about scheme. Goff isn't a game manager, if he was then McVay wouldn't keep giving him the ball late in games to make a play. Mannion, when he comes into the game, is a game manager. They hardly throw it when he's in, he's literally there to hand the ball off to the running back. When Goff is in his job is to drive down the field and be aggressive. I think the biggest difference between Wentz and Goff (other than their skill sets obviously) is the familiarity with the system and experience under the belt.

Goff should have had like 3 though and that interception wasn’t on Wentz

I obviously blame the pick more on Agholor, but Wentz forced that throw in my opinion. Webster was hardly covering his receiver because he knew that Wentz wanted Agholor. I don't think that Wentz should have thrown that ball personally, and I assume he did because he saw that Agholor had position on NRC, and didn't see Webster on the other side.
 

Ramlock

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Glad to have brought you so much amusement today....

I'm shocked you can't read them anymore...I could have sworn weeks ago you stated you didn't read them at all...Like never ever....don't know to believe you now, or are you a liar.....it's all good....pretty soon, I'll share my theory that humans are liars by nature....pleasure seekers that we are.

Good luck to you too....

wasn't me and you can count on me doing what I said, not read your takes on Goff anymore
 

Dxmissile

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I obviously blame the pick more on Agholor, but Wentz forced that throw in my opinion. Webster was hardly covering his receiver because he knew that Wentz wanted Agholor. I don't think that Wentz should have thrown that ball personally, and I assume he did because he saw that Agholor had position on NRC, and didn't see Webster on the other side.

That pass should have been caught if that was any rams receiver we all would be putting the blame on that receiver

You say McVay keep putting the ball in Goff hands to win the games and every time he does that Goff has a turnover. Right now Goff doesn’t win you games. McVay defense and special teams have won games this year but when we need a winning drive in the limited amount of times we needed them Goff couldn’t deliver and I’m not even talking about the Seattle game because that game should have never came down to us needing to score at the end.

You bring Mannion name in this as a game manager like he has played extended minutes and if he has played as good as Goff has this year I would be calling him the same thing I’m calling Goff now. Until Goff can win some games When we need him too then that will change.

Goff and Wentz both are good I’m only joining in this debate because it’s a lot of I told you so’s now that Wentz got hurt but the cold truth is at least for now if it’s a choice between Goff and Wentz with the game on the line I’m choosing Wentz. Goff might be the better pure passer but even that isn’t by a lot. Wentz is a gamer and a winner. Goff is going to get there but as of Right now he’s playing his part beautifully
 

Mackeyser

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Dunno Russel wilson runs around alot and it works for him...

Difference is that Wilson RELIGIOUSLY protects himself.

When was the last time you saw Wilson get really popped?

yeah, without Google, I can't remember, either.

And yet, if you ask about Wentz or RG3 or even Luck... the answer wouldn't be that hard to find or even recall without Google.

Wentz is about as big as Roethlisberger was... nearly as big as a smaller TE for cryin' out loud... and yet...he just doesn't have the build to take the kind of pounding that RBs take.

Wentz can become a drop back passer who is mobile... like Donovan McNabb did... or he can get injured a few more times and have an early exit to the league prior to his second contract.

He'll be Sam Bradford except about $80M lighter in the wallet...
 

OC--LeftCoast

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You know some guys just seem more injury prone than others

At the very least, considering the ONLY 3 year body of work we have to go by, I’d be a little concerned if I had a Wentz blow up doll in my closet
 

Mackeyser

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You know some guys just seem more injury prone than others

At the very least, considering the ONLY 3 year body of work we have to go by, I’d be a little concerned if I had a Wentz blow up doll in my closet

Okay...two things.

Firstly, I need brain bleach to scrub the image of a Wentz blow-up doll from my head. Thanks for that.

Secondly, I'm a little worried that you created that image.

It's not a pretty picture...
9a0b43de1b1543b88ee6a8c5621b9167.jpg
 

OC--LeftCoast

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Okay...two things.

Firstly, I need brain bleach to scrub the image of a Wentz blow-up doll from my head. Thanks for that.

Secondly, I'm a little worried that you created that image.

It's not a pretty picture...
9a0b43de1b1543b88ee6a8c5621b9167.jpg
Sorry Mac but it just seems to appear this way...okay perhaps I have a sick mind
:eek: but, but they started it

Basically Two kinds of Wentz fans amongst us;

1) Those that wanted the Rams to draft him in the worst possible way, these guys were borderline suicidal when the Rams passed on him and chose Goff, I sorta lump you in that fictitious category (sorry) however, much to your credit and those like you...ya got over it and soldiered on...better to be a Fountain than a drain

And Bravo to this bunch
Dilly, dilly!

2) the Rams fan who seemingly will never get over it and drone on and on and on

These poor souls suffer the unique possibility of somehow rooting against our QB (and I guess our team) for the petty “I told you so” satisfaction?

They just can’t find it within themselves to let go and get on board

And yes, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express so...
 

bluecoconuts

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That pass should have been caught if that was any rams receiver we all would be putting the blame on that receiver

I do blame the receiver, I'm just saying he had better options out there and he didn't do himself any favors.

You say McVay keep putting the ball in Goff hands to win the games and every time he does that Goff has a turnover. Right now Goff doesn’t win you games. McVay defense and special teams have won games this year but when we need a winning drive in the limited amount of times we needed them Goff couldn’t deliver and I’m not even talking about the Seattle game because that game should have never came down to us needing to score at the end.

Goff has had a chance to drive down the field for a game winning score 3 times.

The first time against Washington he threw a bad pick.

The second time against Seattle he drove down the field and threw a strike to the end zone that was dropped by Kupp.

The third time against Philly Gurley ran for a loss, Goff had to escape pressure and turn a sack into a modest gain, and then they threw an incomplete on 3rd down (I didn't care for the playcall on that one at all personally)... The fumble wasn't a game winning drive, he needed to drain the clock. I think that Goff needs to keep a better track of how long he's holding onto the ball, but personally I don't like that we were passing there anyway.

I don't have an issue with Goff's ability to engineer a game winning drive at this point because he hasn't had nearly enough opportunities to judge either way in my opinion.

You bring Mannion name in this as a game manager like he has played extended minutes and if he has played as good as Goff has this year I would be calling him the same thing I’m calling Goff now. Until Goff can win some games When we need him too then that will change.

I'm not judging his play, don't get so defensive. I brought Mannion up because he's literally one of two QB's who have played for the Rams this year. McVay has put him in during garbage time and had him just hand the ball off. That's what being a game manager is. McVay has Goff throwing all over the field, early, late, all the time. That's not what a game manager does. Unless you mean something else, there's just nothing to say that Goff is a game manager. The limited snaps that Mannion has played this year have literally had him be a game manager. Oh and we're 9-4, I think Goff can win us some games, given that we're finishing over .500 for the first time in over a decade. Come on, man.

Goff and Wentz both are good I’m only joining in this debate because it’s a lot of I told you so’s now that Wentz got hurt but the cold truth is at least for now if it’s a choice between Goff and Wentz with the game on the line I’m choosing Wentz. Goff might be the better pure passer but even that isn’t by a lot. Wentz is a gamer and a winner. Goff is going to get there but as of Right now he’s playing his part beautifully

I think they're both good too, I'm not judging Wentz on the ACL, Bradford has shitty ACL's and he doesn't run.

I wanted Goff over Wentz because I liked the skillset that Goff brings. I don't give a shit about a gamer and a winner, Tim Tebow was a gamer and a winner (and a baller, shot caller) too. Goff wins plenty (obviously) and his fearless attitude is a trait you see among the greats. I wanted Goff because he has a higher ceiling, and his skill set is perfect for a McVay type offense, which is one of my favorite offensive systems to run. Wentz is best for a different scheme, which is fine, but I'm a bigger fan of the McVay scheme because I think it has more longevity. I figured both Goff and Wentz would play at a high level, but I think Goff will play at that high level slightly longer.

Also I think that if McVay was given the chance to draft Wentz or Goff he would take Goff. Again, because he's a better scheme fit for McVay.

And I'd rather McVay and Goff than Wentz and Peterson. It's not even close to be honest and that's mostly because of McVay.
 

Mackeyser

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Sorry Mac but it just seems to appear this way...okay perhaps I have a sick mind
:eek: but, but they started it

Basically Two kinds of Wentz fans amongst us;

1) Those that wanted the Rams to draft him in the worst possible way, these guys were borderline suicidal when the Rams passed on him and chose Goff, I sorta lump you in that fictitious category (sorry) however, much to your credit and those like you...ya got over it and soldiered on...better to be a Fountain than a drain

And Bravo to this bunch
Dilly, dilly!

2) the Rams fan who seemingly will never get over it and drone on and on and on

These poor souls suffer the unique possibility of somehow rooting against our QB (and I guess our team) for the petty “I told you so” satisfaction?

They just can’t find it within themselves to let go and get on board

And yes, I did sleep at a Holiday Inn Express so...

That's funny.

I'm not so much in either camp.

I ONLY wanted Wentz because I had no confidence that they'd EVER fire Fisher. Dear God in Heaven I wished and hoped for it, but didn't have much faith it would happen. It seemed that Fisher had pics of Demoff or Kroenke schtupping a dead hooker or something... (try THAT image on for size! hahahaha)

Remember, I nearly got run off the board for simply telling the truth prior to the 2016 season...that Fisher was the opposite of a QB whisperer and that structurally, the offense wasn't just broken, but also impossible to fix.

Wentz due to his physicality, longer time in a pro-style offense and his improvisational abilities was a better fix for the flustercuck that was Fisher's offense. I'm not saying he would have been great or even good. All I ever said was that Wentz was a better fit for Fisher. I dunno how that's arguable, really.

I also said at the time that if we had or could get an offensive mind like Asshole Face that I'd rather have Goff.

I never in a million years thought we'd get someone as equally brilliant in Sean McVay.

Which is why I repeatedly say that I'm thrilled we have Goff and would take Goff every day of the week over Wentz and TWICE on Sunday....because we have McVay.

Honestly, if I knew we were gonna get McVay, I really wouldn't have advocated for Wentz at all.

And I really like Wentz as a person and player.
 

jacktheripper85

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That pass should have been caught if that was any rams receiver we all would be putting the blame on that receiver

You say McVay keep putting the ball in Goff hands to win the games and every time he does that Goff has a turnover. Right now Goff doesn’t win you games. McVay defense and special teams have won games this year but when we need a winning drive in the limited amount of times we needed them Goff couldn’t deliver and I’m not even talking about the Seattle game because that game should have never came down to us needing to score at the end.

You bring Mannion name in this as a game manager like he has played extended minutes and if he has played as good as Goff has this year I would be calling him the same thing I’m calling Goff now. Until Goff can win some games When we need him too then that will change.

Goff and Wentz both are good I’m only joining in this debate because it’s a lot of I told you so’s now that Wentz got hurt but the cold truth is at least for now if it’s a choice between Goff and Wentz with the game on the line I’m choosing Wentz. Goff might be the better pure passer but even that isn’t by a lot. Wentz is a gamer and a winner. Goff is going to get there but as of Right now he’s playing his part beautifully

How many game winning drives has Wentz had in his career with the Eagles?
 

Dxmissile

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I do blame the receiver, I'm just saying he had better options out there and he didn't do himself any favors.



Goff has had a chance to drive down the field for a game winning score 3 times.

The first time against Washington he threw a bad pick.

The second time against Seattle he drove down the field and threw a strike to the end zone that was dropped by Kupp.

The third time against Philly Gurley ran for a loss, Goff had to escape pressure and turn a sack into a modest gain, and then they threw an incomplete on 3rd down (I didn't care for the playcall on that one at all personally)... The fumble wasn't a game winning drive, he needed to drain the clock. I think that Goff needs to keep a better track of how long he's holding onto the ball, but personally I don't like that we were passing there anyway.

I don't have an issue with Goff's ability to engineer a game winning drive at this point because he hasn't had nearly enough opportunities to judge either way in my opinion.



I'm not judging his play, don't get so defensive. I brought Mannion up because he's literally one of two QB's who have played for the Rams this year. McVay has put him in during garbage time and had him just hand the ball off. That's what being a game manager is. McVay has Goff throwing all over the field, early, late, all the time. That's not what a game manager does. Unless you mean something else, there's just nothing to say that Goff is a game manager. The limited snaps that Mannion has played this year have literally had him be a game manager. Oh and we're 9-4, I think Goff can win us some games, given that we're finishing over .500 for the first time in over a decade. Come on, man.



I think they're both good too, I'm not judging Wentz on the ACL, Bradford has crappy ACL's and he doesn't run.

I wanted Goff over Wentz because I liked the skillset that Goff brings. I don't give a crap about a gamer and a winner, Tim Tebow was a gamer and a winner (and a baller, shot caller) too. Goff wins plenty (obviously) and his fearless attitude is a trait you see among the greats. I wanted Goff because he has a higher ceiling, and his skill set is perfect for a McVay type offense, which is one of my favorite offensive systems to run. Wentz is best for a different scheme, which is fine, but I'm a bigger fan of the McVay scheme because I think it has more longevity. I figured both Goff and Wentz would play at a high level, but I think Goff will play at that high level slightly longer.

Also I think that if McVay was given the chance to draft Wentz or Goff he would take Goff. Again, because he's a better scheme fit for McVay.

And I'd rather McVay and Goff than Wentz and Peterson. It's not even close to be honest and that's mostly because of McVay.
Great post
 

Dxmissile

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For the record I didn’t want either cause I didn’t want fisher to waste draft picks knowing he didn’t know how to call offense but I have been very happy with Goff and McVay
 

bluecoconuts

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Quarterback Jared Goff was under pressure on 55.2 percent of his drop backs against the Eagles, the highest rate among all quarterbacks through Sunday's games, though he was able to throw for 120 yards, one touchdown, and have a passer rating of 97.3 (seventh highest) on six completions under pressure. Goff was near perfect when his offensive line was able to keep the pressure away from him, owning the highest adjusted completion percentage (accounts for dropped passes, throw aways, spiked balls, batted passes, and passes where the quarterback is hit while throwing) on 13 such drop backs with a 91.7 percentage and a passer rating of 123.3 (fourth highest). This is nothing new for Goff as he has been one of the best quarterbacks when his line is able to keep pressure away from him on the year, throwing for 2,482 yards, 16 touchdowns, five interceptions, and a passer rating of 108.8 on 285 attempts without pressure.


Just gonna leave this here to settle the "Wentz was pressured more" line.
 

SteveBrown

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That sounds much better Steve.I guess your original comment struck me as though,
Goff's performance didn't compare to Wentz and I just don't believe that to be the case.
Watching Wentz Sunday,confirmed my belief that Goff will be the better QB,.Cheers.
I too, believe the game is won in the pocket. Goff has that, while Wentz doesn't. Wentz can not win a "big" NFL game playing only from the pocket.

Luck, Wentz and Griffen and many others are proof of what happens in the big ol' NFL.

ALSO: Wentz, per one guy (ram viewer), was said to have been holding and touching his knee previous to the play, and throughout that drive, before the 'hit' that supposedly tore his ACL. So, his coach also said he tore it 'before' he was hit....again proving he is fragile.

Not saying that Goff isn't fragile, he may be, but he doesn't put himself in the strike zone (so to say). And so, Goff stays healthy while we discover tough guy Wentz might have played 1/2 that drive on a torn ACL.

Yes, I still take Goff. But, for one game, Wentz won. We have 10+ years more to find out....but I stick with Goff. And, yes, Wentz misses a lot of throws---just like McNabb and McNair did.