Eagles confirm torn ACL for Carson Wentz

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Dxmissile

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Accuracy is always important, it's what's going to turn those toss ups into INT when he's throwing to different receivers. He also needs to learn how to protect himself, but the accuracy is always important. I guarantee he's not satisfied with 60%, he was more accurate last year (he was also dinking and dunking a lot last year which helps).. It's a weakness in his game, he doesn't have very many but it's a weakness. To suggest that he shouldn't really bother is silly. Wentz is a second year QB, not some vet with 10 seasons under his belt, there is a LOT for him to work on. I can hit him on things like his foot movement if you'd like, but I'm not. There's a LOT of room for both QB's to grow if they want to be consistent and not a flash in the pan.



I don't give a freak what the average fan thinks, if the average fan is anything like the average American (or person for our international friends) then they're dumb as crap. They measured using science, the numbers say what they say. Goff was always highly regarded for his ability to fit the ball into a tight window, that was a plus of his in college, it's something he's shown he can do in the NFL, where are you getting this idea that Goff can't make any particular throw? He can literally make every throw he needs.

Here's a good example.

Passer rating for QB's completing passes behind the LOS: League Average is 88... Wentz is 90.1, Goff is 114.

Passer rating for QB's completing passes within 10 yards: League Average is 87... Wentz is 93.5, Goff is 99.3

Passer rating for QB's completing passes between 10-20 yards: League Average is 85, Wentz is 119.4 (his money distance), Goff is 82.1 (this is also his favorite place to throw the ball away, so in the middle his rating is 104, it's the sides that get hurt because he throws the ball away, but that's not a major sticking point, because Wentz is still better at these distances). This is also where Goff needs to work the most, hitting the sidelines in the 10-20 yard range, important for comeback games.

Passer rating for QB's completing passes beyond 20 yards: League Average is 80.6, Wentz is 81 and Goff is 90.9.

Goff can make any throw he needs, the biggest thing he should work on is sideline throws between 10-20 yards. Development. Wentz can make any throw he needs as well, the biggest thing he should work on are deep passes and working the right side of the field (he's much better throwing to his left vs Goff who seems to be fine throwing to the right or left).

I don't know why you keep bringing up Cal, Goff is playing better than he did at Cal, and that's backed up by stats as well. Goff has constantly gotten better each year since he was in high school. And That is why it's said his ceiling is higher. The problem wasn't that McVay didn't trust Goff to make those throws it's that he trusted him too much. He was passing when he should have been running. McVay doesn't constantly put the ball in Jared's hand if he doesn't trust him. You'd be better off trying to claim that McVay doesn't trust Gurley than Goff.



That was a failure on several different parts, including Goff. As he develops he'll get better at it, he started his throwing motion literally a second too late. That's going to happen sometimes in games, sometimes the defense makes a play, and the defense made a play. I don't like that it was a passing play, I knew as soon as Long got behind Goff it was going to end badly I was just hoping we would jump on the ball, but we didn't. Sucks. I believe nobody was open, but as Goff was going to throw Watkins was getting there, it was just too late.



The O-Line. They got zero push on the Gurley run which resulted in lost yardage, and then zero push second down which Goff had to bail out and turn a sack into a 3 yard gain to get back to the original LOS. I wasn't a big fan of the 3rd down call personally. But you're right, it's a team game still.



That player was sitting in the medical room and wont see the field until next year. Can't help your team if you're on the sideline. Next.

Also:
rdvxPku.jpg


Accuracy.
You made a lot of points for Wentz in that article even that graph is telling
 

bluecoconuts

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You made a lot of points for Wentz in that article even that graph is telling

I like Wentz, I think he's a good QB, so that doesn't surprise me. My point was never to make Wentz look bad, my point is that Goff and Wentz aren't that different in their abilities. LACHAMP said that the gap between Wentz and Goff was extremely wide, and Goff has issues with accuracy and making certain throws. My point was never to make Wentz look bad, but rather show that him and Goff are about the same, and they are. One of Wentz strengths happen to be an area that Goff needs to work on, but Goff has strengths that Wentz needs to work on as well... Because they're both good young QB's who will continue to develop.

And what's telling about that graph? That Goff didn't hit on the deep ball on Sunday? Shouldn't be a huge shock to anyone that watched the game really. Otherwise Goff was better under pressure, was better at leading receiver to get them open (which is important, especially for our receivers), and significantly more accurate with his throws.

My point is both QB's are good. Goff is a better fit for this team, by far. Wentz is not a fit in a McVay offense, and I'd rather have McVay than Wentz.
 

LACHAMP46

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There's a LOT of room for both QB's to grow if they want to be consistent and not a flash in the pan.
Of course.....but these guys are...who they are....there will be no major changes to either of their games. Both need to get more accurate....but players win with low completion percentages...it's turnovers that are killers.

Goff was always highly regarded for his ability to fit the ball into a tight window, that was a plus of his in college, it's something he's shown he can do in the NFL, where are you getting this idea that Goff can't make any particular throw? He can literally make every throw he needs.
Yeah, that was the pre-draft lie, errr, hype.....yet one guy is consistently more accurate NOW in throwing into tight windows. ESPN has a tight window stat...you have to be an in$ider to view it... I'm sure there will be some interesting data to look at...
Goff can make any throw he needs
Never said he couldn't....the reason he's in the league is because he can throw the rock...if Goff has any problems, it's not in his ability....it's above the shoulders.
That was a failure on several different parts, including Goff.
Truth at last....
Accuracy.
Look at your chart.....
rdvxPku.jpg

Deep passer rating....and look back up to % passing yards IN THE AIR.....hell, look at the avg. time to throw. Look at those numbers....closer....CLOSER....LOLOL....
More accurate deep to intermediate ball passer....not dinks to Gurley....dunks to Watkins/Kupp....driving the ball downfield...into tight windows....I kept noticing how we were throwing short of the sticks a couple times...didn't bother me...just wondered why? Thought the pass pro was alright...
Goff didn't have the time or selection of open targets that Wentz did.
not true....just not...

Games over fellas....

Yeah...I told myself I wouldn't do this...not this week....but in respect of the GAME....an injured player goes down....trying to compete...to win...and....and ....I just couldn't let some of this pass.

Bigger game this Sunday....huge game....biggest game of Goff's career...funny how these keep coming up...that's the NFL....nothing like the Pac-12. Tough challenge....Hawks at home...uncle Pete will have those boys ready. We need to come out with a better defensive performance....have too...and we need our QB to pick us up if we falter....
 

LACHAMP46

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I didn't attribute the high throws to arm strength...just not accurate

JMO
I feel you....typically, guys with cannons will throw high...IMO, of course....esp. early in games.
. LACHAMP said that the gap between Wentz and Goff was extremely wide, and Goff has issues with accuracy and making certain throws.
I believe the gap is so wide because of ...Wentz throws in significantly tighter windows....consistently. Guys are not wide open from a "McVay" scheme...and he's throwing downfield more....
Another thing is his success in the red zone.....haven't seen enough to have an idea on why....just know he is and they are more successful in that area.
Don't like the way McVay is "babying" Goff with the headphone thingy....Just don't...thought about it when I was watching the Pats last night...Seems as if it's a "crutch"....makes me think he's not as bright as Wentz....
Otherwise Goff was better under pressure, was better at leading receiver to get them open (which is important, especially for our receivers), and significantly more accurate with his throws.
Clearly opinion....because, the Goff I've seen under pressure isn't doing all that. Leading receivers open? Haven't seen that either.....significantly more accurate???? just showed the graph....and just the eyeball test says....guy throws into tighter windows more often...must be more accurate. Accuracy numbers overall are very similar....so, if one is considered inaccurate, they both must be considered inaccurate.
 

bluecoconuts

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Of course.....but these guys are...who they are....there will be no major changes to either of their games. Both need to get more accurate....but players win with low completion percentages...it's turnovers that are killers.

Wentz will almost assuredly need to make major changes to his game in order to last a long time in the league, that's the reality of runners. Also one QB threw an interception on Sunday and it wasn't Goff.

Yeah, that was the pre-draft lie, errr, hype.....yet one guy is consistently more accurate NOW in throwing into tight windows. ESPN has a tight window stat...you have to be an in$ider to view it... I'm sure there will be some interesting data to look at...

Goff can hit tight windows, he does it every game, stop trying to suggest he can't and doesn't, you're being silly.

Never said he couldn't....the reason he's in the league is because he can throw the rock...if Goff has any problems, it's not in his ability....it's above the shoulders.

He's being trained to read the field like a coach, stop trying to push the narrative that he's stupid because he's not. There is nothing to suggest that Goff can't handle the mental aspect of it. Everything suggests he'll be great at it.

Truth at last....

There's nothing I've said that isn't true.

Deep passer rating....and look back up to % passing yards IN THE AIR.....hell, look at the avg. time to throw. Look at those numbers....closer....CLOSER....LOLOL....
More accurate deep to intermediate ball passer....not dinks to Gurley....dunks to Watkins/Kupp....driving the ball downfield...into tight windows....I kept noticing how we were throwing short of the sticks a couple times...didn't bother me...just wondered why? Thought the pass pro was alright...

The deep ball wasn't there, the routes weren't developing. That shouldn't be news to anyone who watched the game, it wasn't because Goff wasn't able to throw. Passing yards in the air only means that Goff knows how to lead receivers to get YAC, which is critical to our offense and part of why we have the receivers that we do, and Wentz will throw to receivers to will likely get tackled quickly. Leading your reciever go get some YAC is important, it can extend the life of your reciever, reduce chances of fumbles or interceptions, etc.

What you're ignoring is that gotta was 17 points more accurate than Wentz, or that Goff was better under pressure. If you want to know why plays were called, ask McVay, it was his gameplan.
 

Zaphod

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Man it just hit me reading through this thread, the passer rating under pressure, the average time to throw as well as the deep passer rating.

I know these are quarterback stats, but is that like saying that we took longer to develop plays for less yardage under pressure? It either speaks to receivers, game plan or both, and I don't know how much tuck and run vs. scramble to find a pass would effect those stats, but it does remind of the play where heck I guess no one had separation and Gurley made a great play cutting back across and getting open for Goff. It was hella unscripted and just a great effort by both players.

Overall, the Eagles offense was just cleaner, and I'll give their defense some credit for our own offensive inconsistency.

Oh yeah, I'll say again that I hate that this happened to Wentz. I would have much preferred him rattled and addled on the sidelines ... next year.
 

Dxmissile

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And what's telling about that graph? That Goff didn't hit on the deep ball on Sunday? Shouldn't be a huge shock to anyone that watched the game really. Otherwise Goff was better under pressure, was better at leading receiver to get them open (which is important, especially for our receivers), and significantly more accurate with his throws.

The thing is Goff really didn’t face a lot of pressure in this game that stat is very misleading. Wentz was under pressure from the jump and he suffered a lot of drops from his receivers in this game like every game. That’s one thing Goff hasn’t had to deal with this year a lot of drops.

He had a whole second less to throw the ball than Goff but his deep ball his ball thrown in the air is much better. To me the biggest difference between Goff and Wentz is that Wentz wins games Goff as for now manages those games
 

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Any videos of his face right after the j jury , I could tell something was serously wrong. He's a tough sob but he can't keep running or his career will be alot shorter than planned .

No one wanted him to get hurt, but I am sure that I am not alone in wanting him to get hit hard on that play....hell, ANY running play. He was acting as a RB and didn't slide,which is a stupid thing for a QB to do and this is another example of that. Every time I see RW running against us, I scream at the TV, "KILL THAT MOTHERFREAKER!" Of course they never can hit RW square (or at all), and that is what's different between him and Wentz....The hard hits against QB's are meant to change their behavior, just as good LBers love to smack Wr's going over middle so they hear steps the rest of the game.

Having said that, I hope Wentz recovers fully...Nice kid with great skills. The NFL is less without him.
 
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LACHAMP46

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Wentz will almost assuredly need to make major changes to his game in order to last a long time in the league, that's the reality of runners. Also one QB threw an interception on Sunday and it wasn't Goff.
Just sliding...don't know how major that is...bunch of QB's run for the goalline and get hit...that's what happened. He just happened to get injured.
Goff can hit tight windows, he does it every game, stop trying to suggest he can't and doesn't, you're being silly.
He does....just not as much....and if what numbers I saw were correct....he does it significantly less...don't know what it means overall...he just does it less...
He's being trained to read the field like a coach, stop trying to push the narrative that he's stupid because he's not. There is nothing to suggest that Goff can't handle the mental aspect of it. Everything suggests he'll be great at it.
Didn't say he was stupid...that's not my bag....seems like he's not as bright as the guys that don't need all this pre-snap assistance. Like he's still getting his hand held while he walks to school....and is in the 4th grade.
Check us out at :15 seconds....next game we're at home...I was looking at it....seemed he always started yelling stuff at 14 seconds...
The deep ball wasn't there, the routes weren't developing. That shouldn't be news to anyone who watched the game, it wasn't because Goff wasn't able to throw. Passing yards in the air only means that Goff knows how to lead receivers to get YAC, which is critical to our offense and part of why we have the receivers that we do, and Wentz will throw to receivers to will likely get tackled quickly.
That's your opinion....can't take it from you...
Our best drive of the day....started with some great throws to Kupp...one was in a tight window...downfield, then Kupp did Kupp...that was in the 2nd quarter....I guess the field closed after this.

Seemed to me we were running a lot of short outs....why...IDK???? The All-22 would show if this was true...

Air yards thrown is just what it says...the distance the thrown ball travels in the air....pretty basic...it has nothing to do with yards after the catch...that's partly the QB...does he throw it were a receiver will be immediately tackled?? Does he "throw them open"? We again need the ALL-22 view....
What you're ignoring is that gotta was 17 points more accurate than Wentz, or that Goff was better under pressure.
Better under pressure? This is why stats do lie....We both watched the game....yet one guy was under pressure and moving the chains....scoring TD's....and in a chart it says to you and me, the other was "better" under pressure...one fumbled....Wentz threw a int...true...did you see it? Bounced off the receivers hands...into Websters....but it was an int. Goff's fumble occurred when he held the ball a tick too long....plenty of room to climb up in the pocket too....

Accuracy....huh? You're gonna stick with that one? One guy was 56%....and threw 4 td passes...in 3 quarters....with 291 yards....

the other guy was....16-26.....probably threw 2 picks that were dropped....191 yards....2 tds....fumbled and went 3 and out with his 2nd to last possession....run to Gurley.....scrambled for 3 by Goff...deep pass to Watkins....incomplete....down by 1....that's what happens....

Not a bad player....not an idiot....decent....some would say good....didn't have a "bad" game...but....pressure was that 4th quarter....and, those were shit drives....throw it up deep and hope....one was a strip fumble...the other was incomplete...Accurate huh?
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201712100ram.htm
 

OldSchool

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Look at your chart.....
rdvxPku.jpg

Deep passer rating....and look back up to % passing yards IN THE AIR.....hell, look at the avg. time to throw. Look at those numbers....closer....CLOSER....LOLOL....
More accurate deep to intermediate ball passer....not dinks to Gurley....dunks to Watkins/Kupp....driving the ball downfield...into tight windows....I kept noticing how we were throwing short of the sticks a couple times...didn't bother me...just wondered why? Thought the pass pro was alright...
not true....just not...
...

You do realize that's just one game right? On the year Jared has a higher deep and medium pass rating and more pass yards in the air. He has twice as many completions that travel 20 and 40 yards in the air. Hell has two of the longest completions in the air. Trying to say Wentz is better this year than our boy just isn't accurate. The only thing Wentz has over our boy is mobility and as we've seen time and time again that costs those mobile QBs playing time with injuries. I'll take our pocket assassin every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 

Dxmissile

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Wentz will almost assuredly need to make major changes to his game in order to last a long time in the league, that's the reality of runners. Also one QB threw an interception on Sunday and it wasn't Goff.

Goff should have had like 3 though and that interception wasn’t on Wentz
 

Dxmissile

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You do realize that's just one game right? On the year Jared has a higher deep and medium pass rating and more pass yards in the air. He has twice as many completions that travel 20 and 40 yards in the air. Hell has two of the longest completions in the air. Trying to say Wentz is better this year than our boy just isn't accurate. The only thing Wentz has over our boy is mobility and as we've seen time and time again that costs those mobile QBs playing time with injuries. I'll take our pocket assassin every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Wentz win games. Any other QB playing under center would have been destroyed that game would have been a blowout until Goff start winning games for us I can’t say he’s better.

And the whole he got injured cause he’s a running qb thing is silly it was a football play that would have been a touchdown but for a penalty he didn’t get injured cause he’s a running qb
 

LACHAMP46

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You do realize that's just one game right? On the year Jared has a higher deep and medium pass rating and more pass yards in the air. He has twice as many completions that travel 20 and 40 yards in the air. Hell has two of the longest completions in the air.
Yep...just a snap shot....against a playoff team....when it matters...

We can compare....to other playoff teams we've faced...and they've faced....check them out...All those great stats...don't show up in....wait for it....

Money games....for one guy....while the other guy....well...you saw it.
Goff should have had like 3 though and that interception wasn’t on Wentz
2 picks....shoulda....but lets not dwell on what didn't happen....
Wentz threw one...we all saw who was to blame....rather...if you watched the game...and not just here to pump some agenda.
 

Zero

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For your eyes only Zero....my posts are my opinions....just what I see....

not true....just not... Games over fellas...


You're right your posts are your opinions.
Just curious though,Are your opinions for comedic effect?
Or is it just an attention grab for you?Nothing personal,I just can't
understand why you post some of the warped things you do.Whatever it
is,It's out there.........Eating shrooms out there.
You have to excuse me if I choose to not pay any attention to your opinions.
I just can't take someone serious who posts things like the below quote.

if we're try to build a "championship" team....there is NO WAY a guy like Havenstein...a guy like Brown, beats out guys like Greg Robinson. Same with the 40 time stuff...No way Hatfield should be on the field in a game that matters....No way Cooper Kupp is better than Quick...NO WAY....
 

dieterbrock

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Well right now only one of them has a chance to win a playoff game so we'll see how that goes....
 

OldSchool

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Wentz win games. Any other QB playing under center would have been destroyed that game would have been a blowout until Goff start winning games for us I can’t say he’s better.

And the whole he got injured cause he’s a running qb thing is silly it was a football play that would have been a touchdown but for a penalty he didn’t get injured cause he’s a running qb
Let's look at the better runningQBs.

Wentz, Rodgers, Mariotta, Luck, Wilson and Winston. All miss time with injuries but Wilson.

Pocket guys who don't run?

Brady, Brees, Stanford, Ryan, Ben(at this point in his career), Cousins.... All very healthy, the exception being Palmer.

We've seen it for years, running QBs get hurt more. Go back to RG3, Vick, Cunningham. I'm not being negative to Wentz it's just a fact. One I've read even Philly fans recognize was a huge risk.
 

Merlin

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I would doubt in an NFL MVP caliber season, he has much to improve on...accuracy...maybe...I believe his inaccuracies are over-hyped...maybe his decision making on when to run...slide...go out of bounds.

Goff's areas of inaccuracy are when he's on the run, and the deep left part of the field.

I think you're being too hard on him Champ. He's in year two, and playing statistically as well as just about anyone has. And once again I'll point out how many of the top QBs ever didn't have breakout seasons until year 3 or later.

Goff is on schedule man, and while I am more than willing to criticize him for holding that ball too long on the fumble, the dude has "elite QB" written all over him. To not realize that is to hold him to an unfair expectation.
 

Dxmissile

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Let's look at the better runningQBs.

Wentz, Rodgers, Mariotta, Luck, Wilson and Winston. All miss time with injuries but Wilson.

Pocket guys who don't run?

Brady, Brees, Stanford, Ryan, Ben(at this point in his career), Cousins.... All very healthy, the exception being Palmer.

We've seen it for years, running QBs get hurt more. Go back to RG3, Vick, Cunningham. I'm not being negative to Wentz it's just a fact. One I've read even Philly fans recognize was a huge risk.

Brady missed games Brees missed games Stafford was known as an injury risk, Bradford the aforementioned Palmer it might be a bigger risk but the risk is there for every qb Bradford tore his acl running out of bounds.

The difference between Wentz is he doesn’t run to just Run he is very much like Rodgers and Wilson that way. He runs to escape pessure and by time to throw he uses his legs as an extension of his arm. He simply got hurt on a football play that every qb and this league whether running or pocket passes have done
 

Dxmissile

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t hard on that play....hell, ANY running play. He was acting as a RB and didn't slide,which is a stupid thing for a QB to do

I thought he was acting as a qb scoring a touchdown. It’s not like he had a ton of rushing yards. The shot that Goff took last year from Sherman was a lot harder and for a way worse reason then trying to score a touchdown