Don't forget about Jamil Demby in Rams' offensive line battle

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BonifayRam

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The Rams do seem to like OT's over the other OL s positions. Snead has drafted Rob Havenstein, Jamon Brown, Joe Noteboom, Jamil Demby, Bobby Evans & David Edwards since 2015. How many OG's has Snead taken a liking too? How many has he drafted ? Guess you can say Brian Allen who was primarily a center & OG secondarily.

Snead went out & drafted the perfect best fitting RB to go with Kromers scheme. I am thinking that RB Henderson will have a much bigger season than most all believe. Gurley will find himself well rested & ready to go when the playoff 2019 playoff season begins....his curtain will go up with him center stage.

I just happen to really like our current center situation with this youth movement. Five non rookies Blythe/ Allen/ Kolone/ Neary & now even Demby seeing some reps here. Then there's rookies Brandon Hitman & Vitas H....that seven prospects!
 

Ram65

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Well your post was going on about how they don't blow people off the ball, which is something their scheme isn't meant to do; even back in the Denver glory days with that OL taking out guys' legs with BS blocks you didn't see them blow defenders back. But you saw huge gaps, however, with movement and sealing guys off causing piles of bodies and lanes for the RBs to gash the defense.

That distinction is important when I see you claiming "The Rams don't want a finesse oline. They want a big dominating unit." That is not true IMO. What they want is guys who can move and play with technique and execute a zone running scheme. If you can get a bigger guy in the draft who moves well so be it, but it's not some huge concern that's a fan thing where the fan looks at listed weights and wrings his hands over whether they're big enough.

Lastly, the truest "power" OL we had on this line last season was Roger Saffold. Who they just let walk in FA. The truth is the zone scheme does not focus on size as some key metric. It's focus is athleticism and technique. Size is great to have, but the Rams weren't in their draft room pounding the table for size and strength with this class of OL they brought in.

I thought the Rams were doing a combination of power zone blocking. Kromer says that here. He wantsome good size on the offensive line.Drafting College guys that are 6'4 or 6'5 weighting 315 Lbs that can get to 325/330 Lbs seems like what they have been doing. Allen is the exception at 6'3 and 303 Lbs but he is powerful and could get to 310/315 Lbs.

Here Kromer talks about that some. He calls Noteboom and Allen physical players (sorry can't bold that n the article Kromer described Los Angeles as a “physical, downhill” running team.

I think Kromer wants powerful players. They don't have to be the 340 LB offensive lineman but have good size that can become bigger and stronger. It's a nice combination of technique and power. He has mentioned Saffold as being athletic and powerful but, he is gone for cap reasons. I think he would take a offensive line of Saffold types all day long.

https://www.therams.com/news/kromer-on-evolution-of-run-game
Thursday, Apr 04, 2019 04:25 PM
Run game coordinator Aaron Kromer talks evolution of Rams rushing attack
Myles Simmons
RAMS INSIDER

When Sean McVay took over as head coach in 2017, the Rams figured they would be able to improve offensively and further the development of quarterback Jared Goff.

Both of those things have certainly happened in the last two seasons. But one perhaps underrated element of Los Angeles’ offense has been the run game.
rd andth
While the Rams have ranked No. 1 and No. 2 in points in the two years under McVay, they’ve also ranked No. 8 and No. 3, respectively, in yards rushing. That shouldn’t necessarily come as a surprise, given running back Todd Gurley’s status as a MVP candidate over the last two years. But generally, the Rams seem to get more credit for their prowess through the air than on the ground.

With the offseason program set to begin a week from Monday, the Rams can get going on expanding and improving their run game for the 2019 season. But it wasn’t always clear exactly how the Rams would get after teams on the ground.

In a recent interview with therams.com for Season 2 of Behind the Grind, run game coordinator/offensive line coach Aaron Kromer explained the evolution of Los Angeles’ ground attack like this:

“You know, what’s funny is you have run game from team-to-team and from player-to-player that are successful. And coming here, there’s a lot of ideas and different backgrounds that people came from to get this run game started two years ago in a new program. And we did a lot of meeting, we had a lot of plans, and when it was all and said and done, and when we figured out our personnel was 11 personnel — which is three wide receivers, a running back, and one tight end — it changes a lot of the running game and how you go about attacking defenses. So that takes a little bit of time.”

“The first year, just establishing what we wanted to do and how we were going to get it done because on first and second down, there are a lot of defenses that want to try to stop any chance you have of running the ball and gaining yards,” Kromer continued. “And I thought we’ve done a great job over the last two years of using our best players most of the game and using the things that they do well to create our running game. That’s the most important thing. A run can be great, there’s a lot of different styles out there, a lot of different schemes. But you really want to marry them to the talent that you have on the team.”

Clearly that’s what the Rams have done over the last two years, rushing for a combined 4,184 yards in the regular season. And those results have also given L.A. a pretty clear identity — both for itself and for opponents to study around the league.

Kromer described Los Angeles as a “physical, downhill” running team.

“You don’t see as many under center quarterbacks around the league on first and second down as our reps that we put on tape,” Kromer said. “So Jared's going to be under center, our run game and our play action passes — and our drop-back passes on first and second down sometimes — starts under center, taking the snap from center. It’s not shotgun snap. So we’re able to have a power/zone running game. So we have a combination.

“We’re a heavy wide-zone running team, which has been very physical. We’ve all seen Todd Gurley run for a lot of yards and a lot of touchdowns in two years. So it’s a physical-natured — even though we’re in three wide receivers where someone might want to say it’s a finesse offense — when you watch the tape, you really realize how physical up front, how physical our receivers, and 11 guys as a whole [are].”

But as the Rams head into 2019, the offense and run game will have to keep evolving — especially because the unit will be integrating (at least) two new starters on the line with the departures of center John Sullivan and left guard Rodger Saffold.

“Yeah, to continue our success that we’ve had, we have to continue to grow. And what does that mean? Well, we’re changing a couple linemen up front. And so what do they do maybe a little bit better or maybe not as well as the people that we’ve lost. And we’re talking about Joe Noteboom and Brian Allen,” Kromer said. “That’s two physical young players who have had the ability to sit and learn from great players like John Sullivan and Rodger Saffold — just absorbing the veteran knowledge that those two have and how they play, and how they prepare — I think it’s gotten these two young guys ready to go because they saw such a good example. But physically, they may do some things better than the two that played. Or we have to adapt to what they do.

“So it’s always a work in progress. We always want to make sure that we’re advancing our offense. And what does that mean? Maybe we do a little bit more of certain plays because of the talent that we have on the field.”
 

oldnotdead

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Look at what the oline was at the beginning of last season. They were all big guys 300# + at all positions. Long arms on an Oline player gives him a distinct technique advantage. It makes it more difficult for the Dline to get into his body and gain leverage. That's why last year all of the Rams starting oline had 33" arm lengths or longer at the beginning of the season. That has been what teams look for in their oline for years. Big guys today are far more athletic then they were 20 yrs ago. It's also as has been pointed out why they are drafting OT's for interior linemen. OT's have better feet than most OG's. To think there is never a time they need to blow the dline off the LOS begs the question about why they are using their QB on short yardage instead of handing off to a big RB. You do that on a quick count because your oline allows too much penetration to hand off. Just watch the short yardage situations last year. I would be surprised if the Rams think Blythe is the long term answer at RG. So if he isn't then now is when you start his replacement. While you still have him under contract as a contingency backup. With Demby taking snaps at C he would be your primary backup next year. Demby's issue last year was the same as with virtually all rookies, i.e. pass protection. In the NFL pass protection is the hardest skill to master. In college Demby was noted for his run game play.

The MO for the Rams is to start their rookies in their second year so that they have 3 years to know if they have a starter or not at the position after watching his film. It's a very good MO in my opinion. Noteboom and Allen both saw snaps during the year last season so they are not totally unseasoned. IMO Demby's and Evan's TC will determine if the coaches have confidence enough in them to play them during the regular season. If there is any question they can stick with Blythe. But Blythe needs to step up his play to keep his job or he might start the season as the starter but might not finish it as the starter.

The Rams are primarily an inside zone run attack see 2017. There are basically two styles, vertical and horizontal. I've seen the Ram's use both styles. The vertical in its essence is pushing the dline back into the LB's. How many times in 2017 did we see the C and RG initially double the 3T with the C coming off and climbing to the second level normally looking to block the MLB. The unsaid thing is that the RG then must maintain that block and continue to push the 3T off the LOS. Blythe has problems doing that so the C must stay with him longer messing the play up.

Horizontal is what most people think of zone blocking. It's basically gap control where the oline step either right or left and control the corresponding gap. The RB chooses the hole. The olineman still must move the defender and prevent penetration.

An outside zone is run to compliment an inside zone, and is very rarely used as their bread and butter scheme. It is played much like the horizontal concept except that the gap control is to the outside. The Seahawks used it when they had The Beast. But their wrinkle was to move the defender to the next zone and hand him off to then climb to the second level.

Normally play action is used by teams that primarily run between the tackles. McVay adds the additional play action with a jet sweep motion.

Regardless of scheme the job of the RG is to drive his defender off his "spot" i.e. control his assigned gap. In man the lineman has an assigned target and must have the athleticism to move or pull as necessary. I've seen all of these schemes used in the past two years. But yes the Rams are primarily a zone blocking oline. In 2017 when Gurley was running wild he did most of his damage between the tackles. IMO that is what they want to get back to. IMO they ran outside more last year because they lacked a strong big RG to make it happen. Their run attack became more one dimensional.
 

oldnotdead

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Ram 65 Thank you for posting Kromer's article. I hadn't seen it yet. Getting a bit behind in my reading!
 

snackdaddy

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Listening to DeMarco Farr with Myles Simmons, Farr thinks Demby will be one of the first guys off the bench if someone goes down. He likes Demby's potential. Even said he thinks Demby will get a start at some point in the season.
 

Merlin

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“We’re a heavy wide-zone running team, which has been very physical. We’ve all seen Todd Gurley run for a lot of yards and a lot of touchdowns in two years. So it’s a physical-natured — even though we’re in three wide receivers where someone might want to say it’s a finesse offense — when you watch the tape, you really realize how physical up front, how physical our receivers, and 11 guys as a whole [are].”

Well first off thanks for putting that up, I love reading the articles on line play and your point is fair. But this discussion began wrt the Rams prioritizing power players who can blow opponents off the line when that is simply not true. The Rams are not going after players like that, they're bringing in smart/technique guys with good athleticism for their size who project well to a heavy zone scheme. And Kromer says in the quote above that they're a heavy zone team not to mention you can see it in the tape if you watch the Rams' run game.

If you queue up tape of the Rams' games their outside zone is a high percentage of their runs. And my point was that the outside zone scheme is one that prioritizes mobility and technique moreso than the physicality that the power scheme teams favor. It is what it is. The zone scheme is nice too because you can get some really good lineman outside of that early range that can end up being dominant since the atheticism and technique are so important.

Allen's not a physical beast. Neither is Boom. But both mid to later round picks as rookies functioned as primary depth, where they would be first off the bench, for a Super Bowl team. The most powerful types on our line were Havenstein and Saffold, both of whom were drafted by Jeff Fisher.

But anyway. I don't want to go back and forth over this ad nauseum. I just took exception with what was said and I feel the evidence is pretty plain to see. Cheers.
 

Merlin

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Regardless of scheme the job of the RG is to drive his defender off his "spot" i.e. control his assigned gap.

Untrue. Zone works with area assignment not gap. Gap assignment is the power approach. But I feel like a jerk continuing to post about this stuff over and over so here are some good links for you to read up on:

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2005/zone-blocking-vs-man-blocking

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...schemes/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.b9cc7a3123ff