Defense: what adjustments can be made

[Merlin]

I'd like to see if we can have a conversation about our defense that does not involve the coaching. Try to keep this to personnel only. And the reason I think this is important is because we are on the cusp of making the playoffs but we're doing it with a lot of subpar parts and the question of how far we can go basically comes down to this unit. So this means here is the critical question right now:

"What adjustments can be made to make them better?"

For starters I think our biggest problem of late is our speed outside the hashes. Durant had to play in that game vs New Orleans due to matchups. But going forward what is the best combination of players out there for us IF we get in as that wildcard. Do we have answers on that depth chart.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Tomlinson is buried on the depth chart. My expectation was that he'd own a job by midseason. I was wrong, clearly. So maybe there's some ego at play here but if his problem is knowing the scheme can't we simplify the calls for him or something to improve the quality of the actual player in the role? Maybe his problem is not the scheme though. Idk.

Re: Durant it felt good to see him out there. On the outside he adds pick six threat on those quick throws that try to isolate corners. So while he's weak as shit physically the guy does have some advantage to him. He's not going to suddenly get stronger in the remaining window here. But maybe he's ready to take a lead role and help this defense improve a little bit on that boundary.

Lake I have to say has impressed the hell out of me in that slot role. It's impressive. But in a way it's not a good thing because it keeps him from that pairing. Or maybe more accurately he may be able to help us in that pairing.

Spoon all I can say is I don't think we have anyone who can handle his responsibility. So regretfully we're gonna need to ride him the rest of the way.

So here's what I'd do fwiw:

First I'd move Lake back into that pairing. I'd start him there over Fuller. And look I respect Fuller's game but he had one top season with us and since that time the guy is hit and miss as hell. Lake is young, he's smart, he's physical. He might fuck it up on calls where he's got deep responsibility, but we already suffer that with Fuller. So let's give the kid a look. Worst case is more of the same. But best case is he elevates that pairing with JJ, who is better than Fuller in that regard. Also and lastly the extent of looks Lake would face can be adjusted in calls. Rams are capable of these things and have been doing them all season.

Secondly I'd put Tomlinson in the slot and just man him up on whoever the draw is. No bullshit. Try to keep his responsibilities as simple as possible. If the staff feels it is necessary to alternate him with Kendrick that is fine by me. Letting those two alternate possessions would tap into their competitive instincts. But I'd put a corner in that job and try to keep it simple to ensure I get good coverage snap to snap.

Third I'd have Jones coming on the blitz more frequently. This guy has a knack for affecting the QB. He's smart, he's strong, and his timing on the blitz is superb. The fact he affects A gaps so consistently is a weapon we need to take better advantage of. Now that said every QB is different. There are some who you can beat by dropping more guys to pick errant passes. And there are some who you are better off adding rushers to try to move their feet. In the games ahead if we get Goff for example you're better off with the extra rusher because he's one of those QBs who will repeatedly hit that open receiver. But I think Jones is a weapon that can improve our odds.

Not saying I have all the answers here. But I think for us to play up that darkhorse role we're going to need internal improvements in the defense, and in particular the secondary.

 

[Merlin]

I mean why not. Helps our rotation... Though I'd prefer one of these edges that are out there now.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/los-angeles-chargers-cut-team-captain-sebastian-joseph-day-week-16-buffalo-bills

 

[snackdaddy]

Not sure what kind of adjustments can be made. We knew the defense could be an issue from day one. Being closer to middle of the pack is actually better than expected.

Its a young group. Especially in the secondary. Things like blown assignments leading to wide open receivers were expected earlier in the season. Their probably better at it now but it still happens on occasion. Young is learning on the fly. Hoecht has a good motor but he might be out of position for an edge rusher. He's built more like a 4-3 DE or inside in the 3-4.

What we have is what we get at this point. Its all about the offense. That was the plan from day one. Whatever the defense can give us is a bonus. They have their moments of looking like a top ten unit. They just need to tighten up in the 4th quarter. Do that and this team can play with anyone.

 

[shovelpass]

I don't think it's an option for "right now" but I think they could use a veteran at Edge. Someone experienced who can help them develop. Then they could have Hoecht in a Morgan Fox role, and rush from the dline or edge.

 

[OntarioRam]

I think the reality is we will continue to be vulnerable to getting beat deep until we improve our secondary. You can only mask so much. Just my opinion. Our safeties do really seem to be struggling in particular. I'd try some CBs there in practice, and see if they can take to it. Give everyone a shot. Even little Tomlinson. Maybe even some WRs that are not currently doing anything but special teams. Many CBs were WRs at some level of football prior, or vice versa. You never know. Maybe somebody surprises enough to earn trust in a game situation.

 

[Merlin]

Not sure what kind of adjustments can be made. We knew the defense could be an issue from day one. Being closer to middle of the pack is actually better than expected.

Its a young group. Especially in the secondary. Things like blown assignments leading to wide open receivers were expected earlier in the season. Their probably better at it now but it still happens on occasion. Young is learning on the fly. Hoecht has a good motor but he might be out of position for an edge rusher. He's built more like a 4-3 DE or inside in the 3-4.

What we have is what we get at this point. Its all about the offense. That was the plan from day one. Whatever the defense can give us is a bonus. They have their moments of looking like a top ten unit. They just need to tighten up in the 4th quarter. Do that and this team can play with anyone.

Agreed on all. But what is intriguing about this year's team as I look at it right now is that if they can find better pressure on third down alone they are almost instantly a contender.

Pressure on third down can come different ways. Could be AD playing out of body. Could be a side effect of better coverage on the back end too, where the DC feels comfortable bringing the heat.

And that back end has young pieces with flexibility. So right now I imagine Morris is thinking "holy shit if we can just find that right mix for the playoff run..."

 

[Ram65]

I can't for the life of me figure out why Tomlinson is buried on the depth chart.

He used his hands a lot in college. He can't get away with that after 5 yards in the NFL. He has to control that as he plays aggressively. IRC he got called for it a while back when he was on the field for the Rams.

He has the talent. I expected him to become a starter this year as well.

 

[JimY53]

I don't think it's an option for "right now" but I think they could use a veteran at Edge. Someone experienced who can help them develop. Then they could have Hoecht in a Morgan Fox role, and rush from the dline or edge.

They do that some with him, in nickel, which is where Fox played most of his snaps

 

[thirteen28]

I mean why not. Helps our rotation... Though I'd prefer one of these edges that are out there now.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bills/news/los-angeles-chargers-cut-team-captain-sebastian-joseph-day-week-16-buffalo-bills

"Siri, why do the Chargers suck?"

 

[oldnotdead]

How can you talk about changes without about how coaches are playing them. Putting the onus on the player, not on how he's used? You can't have one without the other or it's meaningless IMO.

 

[Jacobarch]

How can you talk about changes without about how coaches are playing them. Putting the onus on the player, not on how he's used? You can't have one without the other or it's meaningless IMO.

This this this ....

While I think Morris has done a great job with the talent he's been handed this year I still think there's a lot to be desired when it comes to situational football. I'll give him props where props are due. For example he's come a long way on third down football. Even with the better talent of years past it would drive me nuts to see how often they would give up a play on 3rd and long. Currently it seems he plays more aggressive on 3rd downs and has his CBs play tighter than what we're used to seeing which has resulted in mostly good to great results.

Now here's where things get a little blurry. Because we're not in the huddle and we have zero idea what play is being called. However we can at least see if they're in man or zone, 2 deep shell or single high etc. I digress

It seems to have become an issue that late in games or right before halftime we've seen some major blunders giving up big plays that lead to points. Games like Washington, Saints, 69ers, Baltimore, philly and the colts come to mind. And every single time I've seen this happen it's almost always tight man coverage, with zero help over the top. Again not knowing the exact call in the huddle it's impossible to know whether a safety is playing robber or it's an outright misread. But if we're looking at consistency here I would say it's play calling. I can't sit here and say Fuller and JJIII are that bad and can't seem to communicate after this much playing time.
Which brings me to my point of situational football.

If that's true I would suspect it might be part of the reason why Morris hasn't found a HC gig yet.

 

[Merlin]

How can you talk about changes without about how coaches are playing them. Putting the onus on the player, not on how he's used? You can't have one without the other or it's meaningless IMO.

Because if we don't at least try to keep the discussion on personnel and how they're used then this will degrade into another anti-Morris thread which isn't particularly helpful. He is the DC and will be at least until the offseason.

So if you're the DC how would you make the changes. I am aware of your feelings on Morris.

 

[JimY53]

How can you talk about changes without about how coaches are playing them. Putting the onus on the player, not on how he's used? You can't have one without the other or it's meaningless IMO.

Meaningless? Like posting junk about Morris over and over and over and over and over and over and over? Punctuating the junk with misinformation as to HOW coaches are playing the players doesn't add any meaning.

I think it's evident you just hate the dude.

 

[JimY53]

First I'd move Lake back into that pairing. I'd start him there over Fuller. And look I respect Fuller's game but he had one top season with us and since that time the guy is hit and miss as hell. Lake is young, he's smart, he's physical. He might fuck it up on calls where he's got deep responsibility, but we already suffer that with Fuller. So let's give the kid a look. Worst case is more of the same. But best case is he elevates that pairing with JJ, who is better than Fuller in that regard. Also and lastly the extent of looks Lake would face can be adjusted in calls. Rams are capable of these things and have been doing them all season.

Secondly I'd put Tomlinson in the slot and just man him up on whoever the draw is. No bullshit. Try to keep his responsibilities as simple as possible. If the staff feels it is necessary to alternate him with Kendrick that is fine by me. Letting those two alternate possessions would tap into their competitive instincts. But I'd put a corner in that job and try to keep it simple to ensure I get good coverage snap to snap.

Third I'd have Jones coming on the blitz more frequently. This guy has a knack for affecting the QB. He's smart, he's strong, and his timing on the blitz is superb. The fact he affects A gaps so consistently is a weapon we need to take better advantage of. Now that said every QB is different. There are some who you can beat by dropping more guys to pick errant passes. And there are some who you are better off adding rushers to try to move their feet. In the games ahead if we get Goff for example you're better off with the extra rusher because he's one of those QBs who will repeatedly hit that open receiver. But I think Jones is a weapon that can improve our odds.

Not saying I have all the answers here. But I think for us to play up that darkhorse role we're going to need internal improvements in the defense, and in particular the secondary.

1. I think starting Lake at one of the safeties is fine. Cannot lose anything and could gain something. The loss, though, could be a versatile slot. But I am for whoever the top 5 players are ... If it's 3 safeties--fine, if it's 3 CBs, also fine. If it is a mix --some of each. also fine.

2, Tomlinson would be able to play slot ... but you can't just man up. The coverages are determined not just by one guy, but in conjunction with the Hook defender inside and the field corner to the outside - as a tirangle. Or even with the safety to form a box ... it's orchestrated. Still, when Tomlinson is ready, fine ... I don't that that will happen this year. Don't think he would alternate with Kendrick. Kendrick is not a slot, IMO. He lacks the skill-set needed. Even Durant can blitz and get som,e pressure and he can do that with his speed. So could Tomlinson. Kendrick, for now, should just be the backup to the starters.

3. He rushes quite a bit, but if it were more it could help, I don't know. Rams often send 5 anyway, so the way they are doing it is on 3rd downs, they go to an overloaded front, usually, and they work his blitzes with the DT, crossing and twisting a good deal of the time. So, to blitz there has to be an opportunity... 2nd and long --- 3rd downs of 5 or longer. But when you blitz too often you can get burned on screens and draws, But, it's fine. I think it just depends on gameplan, and how teams handle blitzes and rushing blitzes.

 

[JimY53]

Rams have tried several things---here is vs Colts...Durant the nickel, Lake the money, Yeast and Fuller the safeties

Now Yeast is the money and Lake the star...


View: https://x.com/53_jim70721/status/1738435230287958273?s=20

 

[Merlin]

2, Tomlinson would be able to play slot ... but you can't just man up. The coverages are determined not just by one guy, but in conjunction with the Hook defender inside and the field corner to the outside - as a tirangle. Or even with the safety to form a box ... it's orchestrated. Still, when Tomlinson is ready, fine ... I don't that that will happen this year. Don't think he would alternate with Kendrick. Kendrick is not a slot, IMO. He lacks the skill-set needed. Even Durant can blitz and get som,e pressure and he can do that with his speed. So could Tomlinson. Kendrick, for now, should just be the backup to the starters.

Yeah I do realize you can't just man up but I'm no play designer.

Going back to the comment about the five best players I think that is important here. I don't see our current usage as the best five. Now I'm sure the staff could go on at length as to why they play what they play, and who they play. And I'm sure there's sufficient reason for it all. But we've had too many mistakes back there of late and we don't have a whole lot of athleticism among the starting group. I figure we have the slowest secondary in the league. Not kidding. Spoon is about done and he's never been fast, don't care what he ran ten or so years ago. Kendrick isn't fast. Safeties are not gifted in that regard either.

Not that I want to make it all about speed but I think that is a problem here. Durant certainly helps that equation but there is some give and take with him. No matter how I look at it for myself at least it keeps coming back to Lake being needed in that pairing but also speed coming in for the slot.

Anyway. Point with this thread isn't to say I have the answers but to hear some creative ideas from the faithful. Not interested in Morris bashing or Morris worship. But maybe that's not possible.

 

[WestCoastRam]

I can't for the life of me figure out why Tomlinson is buried on the depth chart. My expectation was that he'd own a job by midseason. I was wrong, clearly. So maybe there's some ego at play here but if his problem is knowing the scheme can't we simplify the calls for him or something to improve the quality of the actual player in the role? Maybe his problem is not the scheme though. Idk.

It kinda blows my mind why it's a mystery that Tomlinson isn't playing. He was a flag machine in college and showed it in his play this preseason too. And for those who say Kendricks was a foul waiting to happen, take a look at how many times Tomlinson was flagged just last season in college.

 

[JimY53]

Yeah I do realize you can't just man up but I'm no play designer.

Going back to the comment about the five best players I think that is important here. I don't see our current usage as the best five.

I posted something from earlier in year with Yeast-Fuller-Spoon--Kendrick-Durant (star)--Lake (money) To me it comes down to if Yeast can play or not. I don't know. I don't think this is a talented secondary sho I don't know who the best 5 are--in terms of talent THT would be in my top 5, but not knowing what he knows and never seeing practice ... hard to know.

Rams need an influx of talent. I think next year Taylor and Lake could be the safeties. THT and Durant as 2 of 3 CBS and hopefully a high draft pick or two in the mix.

I just think this year we ride it out. Team outperforming its talent. If they can get some edge pressure -- missing for a couple of weeks it will make a huge difference. cannot just get pressure from Turner and Donald and Jones--3 guys rushing from the interior to start. The edges have to scare somebody and they don't -- to the degree they did earlier in the year.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I'd like to see if we can have a conversation about our defense that does not involve the coaching. Try to keep this to personnel only. And the reason I think this is important is because we are on the cusp of making the playoffs but we're doing it with a lot of subpar parts and the question of how far we can go basically comes down to this unit. So this means here is the critical question right now:

"What adjustments can be made to make them better?"

For starters I think our biggest problem of late is our speed outside the hashes. Durant had to play in that game vs New Orleans due to matchups. But going forward what is the best combination of players out there for us IF we get in as that wildcard. Do we have answers on that depth chart.

I can't for the life of me figure out why Tomlinson is buried on the depth chart. My expectation was that he'd own a job by midseason. I was wrong, clearly. So maybe there's some ego at play here but if his problem is knowing the scheme can't we simplify the calls for him or something to improve the quality of the actual player in the role? Maybe his problem is not the scheme though. Idk.

Re: Durant it felt good to see him out there. On the outside he adds pick six threat on those quick throws that try to isolate corners. So while he's weak as shit physically the guy does have some advantage to him. He's not going to suddenly get stronger in the remaining window here. But maybe he's ready to take a lead role and help this defense improve a little bit on that boundary.

Lake I have to say has impressed the hell out of me in that slot role. It's impressive. But in a way it's not a good thing because it keeps him from that pairing. Or maybe more accurately he may be able to help us in that pairing.

Spoon all I can say is I don't think we have anyone who can handle his responsibility. So regretfully we're gonna need to ride him the rest of the way.

So here's what I'd do fwiw:

First I'd move Lake back into that pairing. I'd start him there over Fuller. And look I respect Fuller's game but he had one top season with us and since that time the guy is hit and miss as hell. Lake is young, he's smart, he's physical. He might fuck it up on calls where he's got deep responsibility, but we already suffer that with Fuller. So let's give the kid a look. Worst case is more of the same. But best case is he elevates that pairing with JJ, who is better than Fuller in that regard. Also and lastly the extent of looks Lake would face can be adjusted in calls. Rams are capable of these things and have been doing them all season.

Secondly I'd put Tomlinson in the slot and just man him up on whoever the draw is. No bullshit. Try to keep his responsibilities as simple as possible. If the staff feels it is necessary to alternate him with Kendrick that is fine by me. Letting those two alternate possessions would tap into their competitive instincts. But I'd put a corner in that job and try to keep it simple to ensure I get good coverage snap to snap.

Third I'd have Jones coming on the blitz more frequently. This guy has a knack for affecting the QB. He's smart, he's strong, and his timing on the blitz is superb. The fact he affects A gaps so consistently is a weapon we need to take better advantage of. Now that said every QB is different. There are some who you can beat by dropping more guys to pick errant passes. And there are some who you are better off adding rushers to try to move their feet. In the games ahead if we get Goff for example you're better off with the extra rusher because he's one of those QBs who will repeatedly hit that open receiver. But I think Jones is a weapon that can improve our odds.

Not saying I have all the answers here. But I think for us to play up that darkhorse role we're going to need internal improvements in the defense, and in particular the secondary.

Maybe they could pull it off with a few weeks of practice, but I’m not changing anything.

I think Durant was replacing Kendrick because of Darrion’s fuck ups. Maybe it was also because they feared Olave. Durant played well. I don’t know that he’d hold up to the Niners with Dweebo and CMC though.

Tomlinson has looked incredibly immature on the few plays he’s had. I think he’s overmatched at this level and he gets really frustrated and is too quick to lash out. He’s not playing for a reason

I don’t see moving Lake. I agree that Fuller is meh, and they need speed on the back end in the worst way. However, if Lake was looking good at free safety wouldn’t he already be there? I’m guessing that they have him in his best position.

These fixes have to come in the offseason imo. I don’t think now is the time to shuffle the deck.

 

[Merlin]

Maybe they could pull it off with a few weeks of practice, but I’m not changing anything.

I think Durant was replacing Kendrick because of Darrion’s fuck ups. Maybe it was also because they feared Olave. Durant played well. I don’t know that he’d hold up to the Niners with Dweebo and CMC though.

Tomlinson has looked incredibly immature on the few plays he’s had. I think he’s overmatched at this level and he gets really frustrated and is too quick to lash out. He’s not playing for a reason

I don’t see moving Lake. I agree that Fuller is meh, and they need speed on the back end in the worst way. However, if Lake was looking good at free safety wouldn’t he already be there? I’m guessing that they have him in his best position.

These fixes have to come in the offseason imo. I don’t think now is the time to shuffle the deck.

All fair points. And 53 saying that we'll ride it out, yes that of course seems likely.

But in regard to the younger options on this depth chart what they do offer is potential for upside. Lake could possibly improve us over either of that pairing. Tomlinson's maturity was on full display earlier this year but I am not going to put him in a box and say that is him permanently as some fans are want to do, he might offer us speed and tenacity if they can figure out how to focus him into a simplified role. Yeast I think is quite limited but yes even him as well, maybe he can re-win a role for that playoff run.

We are undergunned on defense but to what extent can we hope for a better product as a result of maybe some roles being juggled around. If among a few different moves just one of them starts playing at a high level in that role the net will be a better defense. I actually expect Morris and company to attempt some things to try to get this group to at least a higher level of consistency. What that is no idea, but it'll be interesting to track on and I hope they can maybe add a guy like Houston (who is the guy I'd prefer to see next to AD) and then some minor sorting and end up with a defense that goes into the playoffs on a fucking roll.