Dead money question.

[Elmgrovegnome]

If a team makes a trade can the other team take on the dead money salary cap hit. Or is that hit only on paper?

Or split it?

 

[Ram Ts]

I thought the dead money is locked in - no way around it. Hence the “dead” moniker. Stays with original team.

Unless the guy repays bonus back - which would never happen nor be allowed by the players union.

 

[Neil039]

Google so you know it’s 50/50 right vs wrong…

Any guaranteed base salary that has yet to be paid out is considered dead cap on the contract. Should the player be released, all guaranteed salary will accelerate and be treated as dead cap in the current season. If traded, any unpaid guaranteed salary will transfer to the new team.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Isn’t the guaranteed money all paid at signing?

 

[OldSchool]

If a team makes a trade can the other team take on the dead money salary cap hit. Or is that hit only on paper?

Or split it?

Isn’t the guaranteed money all paid at signing?

No the dead money is the signing clubs to absorb. Yes it's all paid up front but it's spread out for accounting purposes. You're allowed to do it that way to make the cap more manageable so when you trade/cut a player it all comes due.

 

[JustMe]

Isn’t the guaranteed money all paid at signing?

I understand what you are getting at... but think of it this way.

When Watson signed his contract his signing bonus would have theoretically wiped out 90% of their cap.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

I understand what you are getting at... but think of it this way.

When Watson signed his contract his signing bonus would have theoretically wiped out 90% of their cap.

Not exactly. If it’s guaranteed the team can pay it all and the. Spread it out through the contract years for cap purposes, like @OldSchool said.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

No the dead money is the signing clubs to absorb. Yes it's all paid up front but it's spread out for accounting purposes. You're allowed to do it that way to make the cap more manageable so when you trade/cut a player it all comes due.

Thanks that is what I thought

 

[dieterbrock]

If a team makes a trade can the other team take on the dead money salary cap hit. Or is that hit only on paper?

Or split it?

There's basically 3 types of "dead money"
Signing bonus-Cap hit is spread out over contract for $$ paid upfront. When player cut or traded, the amount left is due. Cant be passed on to another team since the player has already been paid.

Restructure monies- when a player converts salary in to "bonus", he still gets his $$ although the restructed amount gets spread out over the contract like above. Like above Cant be passed on to another team since the player has already been paid.

Guaranteed bonus/salary- A player's salary can be guaranteed and/or an annual bonus could be guaranteed. If player is cut, those monies are due and count against the cap, after June 1 could be split between season and next. If traded, the guaranteed bonus/salary CAN be assumed by the team acquiring, or a split of the monies could be negotiated

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

There's basically 3 types of "dead money"
Signing bonus-Cap hit is spread out over contract for $$ paid upfront. When player cut or traded, the amount left is due. Cant be passed on to another team since the player has already been paid.

Restructure monies- when a player converts salary in to "bonus", he still gets his $$ although the restructed amount gets spread out over the contract like above. Like above Cant be passed on to another team since the player has already been paid.

Guaranteed bonus/salary- A player's salary can be guaranteed and/or an annual bonus could be guaranteed. If player is cut, those monies are due and count against the cap, after June 1 could be split between season and next. If traded, the guaranteed bonus/salary CAN be assumed by the team acquiring, or a split of the monies could be negotiated

Now I’m more confused. So guaranteed money can be shared or assumed by the team acquiring the player? But it is still dead cap and all of it comes due at the time of the trade by whichever team is paying it? If so, then why is Kupp or AD considered untraceable? If a team wants them badly enough they could take on the dead cap hit.

 

[oldnotdead]

The guaranteed part of the players contract normally but not always stays with the original team. Guaranteed things like roster bonuses travel with the player. But things like signing bonus and guaranteed salary normally stay.

Look at Stafford's contract on over the cap. He has a dead cap of $86.5M in 2024. That is comprised of his signing bonus over the remaining contract and the $31M of his guaranteed contract. If he retires that all comes due unless it's a post June 1 transaction. As a post June 1 transaction only $49.5 is due in 2024 with the rest carried over to 2025. That is why his being under contract when the new season started was important. It fully guaranteed his 2023 salary and his 2024 salary both. Now look at 2025. If Matt retires after 2024 then his dead cap is $37M with a cap savings of $13.5M pre-June 1. Post June 1 it's $18.5M with a cap savings of $32M with the balance carried over to 2026.

This is why I've been saying that Matt needs to play 2 more years. It's why I don't see Stafford as the QB after 2024. It makes no sense, they would save huge bucks by convincing him to retire after 2024 and that is exactly what I believe they did. That is why what they do at QB2 this year has a huge impact down the line. Either they get a career backup type this year in the late 5th or early 6th and make a push to trade up to grab a franchise talent in 2024 to give him one year behind Stafford. Or they grab Tune or most likely McKee at 36 (McKee will likely be on the board) and give him 2 years to develop behind Stafford.

So the Rams hope Stafford can stay healthy and play 2 more seasons. After that he was expected to retire regardless.

Taking their next franchise QB this year makes complete sense. Two years developing behind Stafford and they control his rights for another 3 years (2 contract 1 franchise tag). At the very least get their career backup QB like Jake Haener then going for a franchise talent in 2024.

In a trade the acquiring team could agree to accept part of the guaranteed money as part of the compensation in lieu of a high or higher draft choice. They could give the player a new contract then put the money carried over from his previous team in a guaranteed void year at the end of the contract.

 

[OldSchool]

The guaranteed part of the players contract normally but not always stays with the original team. Guaranteed things like roster bonuses travel with the player. But things like signing bonus and guaranteed salary normally stay.

Guaranteed salary not yet paid out goes with the player to his new team just like roster bonuses go to the new team.

 

[JustMe]

Not exactly. If it’s guaranteed the team can pay it all and the. Spread it out through the contract years for cap purposes, like @OldSchool said.

That was my point.

 

[Neil039]

Guaranteed salary not yet paid out goes with the player to his new team just like roster bonuses go to the new team.

That’s when you know if a contract is for the long haul or designed for a future trade. If they player doesn’t get it all up front. IMO

 

[OldSchool]

That’s when you know if a contract is for the long haul or designed for a future trade. If they player doesn’t get it all up front. IMO

It's how Ramsey was traded this year and no other of the big names were. He had little to no guaranteed left and everybody else got a big payday after the SB.

 

[oldnotdead]

Guaranteed salary doesn't always travel. That is the part that might not in a trade. But in a retirement situation it's dead money that will be paid immediately or split over two years.

 

[OldSchool]

Guaranteed salary doesn't always travel. That is the part that might not in a trade. But in a retirement situation it's dead money that will be paid immediately or split over two years.

It always travels. Signing bonuses don't roster bonuses do and salary does.

 

[Mackeyser]

Isn’t the guaranteed money all paid at signing?

No. Bonuses included future guaranteed bonuses.

Guaranteed salaries are simply guaranteed on a per season basis and paid in a per game basis.

If a player has no signing bonus and guaranteed salary of $17M, that’s $1M per game. That counts in their team’s cap. If that player is traded after game 6, the remaining $11M is transferred to the new team as well as any future guaranteed salaries. However, if that player has any future guaranteed bonuses of any kind besides performance bonuses, those are taken immediately by the team trading the player.

Of course, teams can adjust things, but that’s how it’s laid out in the CBA

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

So, a player who has a contract of $5 million per year for three years and also had $15million guaranteed as a signing bonus.

The team paid the bonus up front but spread it through the cap say as an extra $5 million each year.

After year two they trade him. The team acquiring the player will only owe his $5 million a year base salary. The original team would have $5 million in dead money on the cap. If it was already paid, then there is no way for the team that acquired the player to agree to take on a portion of the dead cap and apply it to their own cap.

Correct?

 

[Mackeyser]

So, a player who has a contract of $5 million per year for fiv years and also had $15million guaranteed as a signing bonus.

The team paid the bonus up front but spread it through the cap say as an extra $5 million each year.

After year two they trade him. The team acquiring the player will only owe his $5 million a year base salary. The original team would have $5 million in dead money on the cap. If it was already paid, then there is no way for the team that acquired the player to agree to take on a portion of the dead cap and apply it to their own cap.

Correct?

Almost.

$15M in bonus over 5 yrs is $3M/yr prorated, so the dead cap hit would be $9M