Dante Fowler

[PhillyRam]

Defense is going to have a TON of moves this offseason. It's going to be significant...

1. They will let Talib walk in FA. Ramsey getting paid elite money and Hill's play will make this almost necessary. There is a chance Talib takes a team-friendly deal and hangs around but it's a longshot IMO.

2. They will cut NRC. I think Long's future is the slot. Moving him into NRC's spot saves them a ton of cash.

3. They will let Fowler walk in FA. I like the guy but he's unlikely to earn a top contract over time. If they were to pay big money for an edge rush it would be someone more proven. Matthews is locked up for next year on a very team-friendly deal. Obo seems to be coming into his own. Ebukam is also in the mix. It sucks but that tough decision is probably going to fall this way IMO.

4. They will make Johnson play out his rookie contract. I feel like he actually struggled a bit this year before his injury but he's a young bright spot for our defense they want to keep they are just going to want to see him ball out at a high level consistently next season. Reason I say this is because they have Weddle for next year, Rapp as a young up and comer, so there is no rationale for them to move everything up. Let him play in that contract year, if he's ballin out lock him up which works great for him taking that baton from Weddle the following season.

5. They will lock up Littleton. Losing him would kill our defense as the depth is subpar in that room after him. They're not gonna mess around with CL.

6. They will let Brock walk in FA. He's playing well, but the money on the DL is in Aaron Donald and rightly so. The days of $50+ million invested in the DL (i.e. 2018) are gone thank God.

7. They will lock up Fox. More affordable 5T option who can do different things and who has played very well for us this year. They have also put SJD in there at 5T vs the heavy run teams like SF so they have options.

One slight disagreement... I think they can trade Roby-Coleman or Hill. CBs are gold and both are young and cheap enough that you could get a mid round pick for them. So can get something instead of just releasing one of them.

If they really like Williams and Long, one of those other two can be dealt and you draft a kid in mid rounds who would be your #5 CB and a lot cheaper.

 

[PhillyRam]

While I do agree Fowler is crucial in terms of rushing the passer. If you want a average to good defense, you need a star on every level. Defensive line is anchored by Donald, Linebacker core is anchored by Littleton, and our secondary is likely to be anchored by Ramsey. Those three are of the most importance to us. I'd love to have Fowler on board, I really would. But its not looking like its possible. I don't like the chances of McVay ignoring the offensive line again going into next year. I'm pretty sure money over time will be spent trying to solidify it; and rightfully so. Dude loves his offense, and you can bet your ass he's going to make sure Goff is being held upright before keeping Fowler in LA.

It would be nice if Edwards blossoms and Evans/Corbett show life in practice the rest of the year.

I agree Littleton is important to keep, but edge is a more critical position. So they have to be sure one of the kids can fill Fowler's role.

 

[Mackeyser]

Looks like quite a few smart guys are contemplating who goes and who stays with Los Ramos in 2020.....um, one question from me...

with the real possibility of cutting mid-range guys like Robey-Coleman, Mathews, Weddle.......and high-priced guys like Whitworth, Talib, Fowler et al.....ALL TOUGH DECISIONS.

My Question: Given the tight Salary Cap situation coming up for Los Ramos, even with the expected $15Mil boost to the Salary Cap by NFL New York.....um....
...why in he H-E-double-hockeysticks does the Ram braintrust rip up the current contract for
Tyler RunsLikeHe'sGotAGrandPianoStrappedOnThisBack! Higbee,

and commit us to paying the pedestrian Higbee about $6mil/year till 2022???!!!

Why was Higbee's grand signing so critical???

He's a BEAST blocking in the run game, he gets decent and hard fought YAC, he's a reliable receiver and he's a heads up ball player. He's a complete TE whereas Everett is more of the Josh Reed WR type TE. And I loves me Everett. I spent weeks talking about how McVay needed to focus on Everett. But Higbeast is a huge part of this O and I'm glad he'll be around for awhile.

 

[Mackeyser]

While I do agree Fowler is crucial in terms of rushing the passer. If you want a average to good defense, you need a star on every level. Defensive line is anchored by Donald, Linebacker core is anchored by Littleton, and our secondary is likely to be anchored by Ramsey. Those three are of the most importance to us. I'd love to have Fowler on board, I really would. But its not looking like its possible. I don't like the chances of McVay ignoring the offensive line again going into next year. I'm pretty sure money over time will be spent trying to solidify it; and rightfully so. Dude loves his offense, and you can bet your ass he's going to make sure Goff is being held upright before keeping Fowler in LA.

I think Fowler's future hinges on two things:

1) If Ramsey and the defensive backfield continue to ball out and we see a cascade of coverage sacks, Fowler could become significantly too expensive. I think we could figure out $14M per, but if he's sitting at 15 sacks, he's looking at $17M per year, especially with how good he is in the run game. So his production is a big part of what comes next (and don't think we won't get a bit of a hometown discount. Fowler knows that he was behind Yannick Ngokoue in Jax and was looking at fighting for 1-2 year prove it deals around the league for his career. The Rams are a Godsend for him and he knows it and will tell you if asked.

2) The Rams OL. If Edwards continues to improve, Allen and Hav become more consistent and Noteboom's rehab ends up ahead of schedule (which is a lot of ifs, some more likely than not), the Rams may not have much to look for on the OL besides depth and maybe replacing Blythe. Also, there won't be a lot of middling guys in FA and I'm with @jrry32 insofar as I don't want to spend the money on Scherff at RG. I don't think his play warrants the $14M he's likely to receive.

So who knows? Fowler could stay or he could go and some of that is out of his hands...

 

[Mackeyser]

One slight disagreement... I think they can trade Roby-Coleman or Hill. CBs are gold and both are young and cheap enough that you could get a mid round pick for them. So can get something instead of just releasing one of them.

If they really like Williams and Long, one of those other two can be dealt and you draft a kid in mid rounds who would be your #5 CB and a lot cheaper.

NRC is maybe the most under-rated slot CB in the league, so no on him. Also, Troy Hill may be our #2 starter next year and he sure played like it on Sunday. Forget Jones, did we hear from anyone Hill was playing against?

I want us to keep all of them. Depth is a good thing.

 

[Memento]

NRC is maybe the most under-rated slot CB in the league, so no on him. Also, Troy Hill may be our #2 starter next year and he sure played like it on Sunday. Forget Jones, did we hear from anyone Hill was playing against?

I want us to keep all of them. Depth is a good thing.

The problem with Hill is that he's extremely inconsistent. He had an excellent game yesterday, I will admit that. I worry about other games, though.

Trading Hill and NRC would give us valuable picks in a time where we don't really have them.

I disagree with @Merlin that Long is a slot corner. He doesn't have the quickness to stay there. He's best on the boundary where he can play press-man. I like Williams at slot more. And I wouldn't rule out drafting a cornerback in next year's extremely deep class.

 

[BonifayRam]

.....................2. They will cut NRC. I think Long's future is the slot. Moving him into NRC's spot saves them a ton of cash.

I am not seeing things like you Merlin here in your future look into the corner situation next season. I certainly do not believe The Rams Org. will cut CB Nickell Robey-Coleman in March FA'cy. NRC's cap hit is an easy cap hit for a well proven veteran 8 yr Nickle corner. NRC's cap hit is only 4.5 mil.

I do foresee the Rams having a replacement Nickel ready to go when NRC's contract concludes @ the end of the 2020 season. The trio of Ramsey/ Hill & NRC would be one of the better NFL trio's. I also see David Long talents lean towards being an outside press corner than being involved with covering the slot. David Long will be preparing to replace outside corner Troy Hill.

I think this past Sundays starting corner Darious Williams will get the opportunity to be NRC's main back up in 2020. Williams is a true complete corner who can play all the corner positions & different coverages. His speed 4.44 in the 40 & quickness is outstanding but his short size 5-9 190 makes me think Nickel.

 

[Rams43]

About Fowler’s Ram future...

Couple of thoughts here.

1. Fowler has to prove consistency if he even hopes for a big extension with the Rams. Minimize or even eliminate the hot and cold roller coaster BS. He’s got 9 remaining games to establish consistency. Clock is ticking.

2. Question: If playing with Ramsey/AD is creating Fowler’s surge environment, then why wouldn’t those guys similarly create the same environment for another and less expensive player? I think it would. So why wouldn’t the Rams be tempted to go with the more inexpensive version? Call it a dividend of the elite status expense of the AD/Ramsey contract investments?

In a non-cap world an owner like Kroenke could simply declare, “sign ‘em all”, but we live in a hard cap world.

Best we can do is sign the true elite players and surround them with best available supporting cast players.

I’m not sure just yet that Fowler is really a “must have” elite type player. A handful more games like that Falcon game could convince me, though. Lol.

 

[PhillyRam]

NRC is maybe the most under-rated slot CB in the league, so no on him. Also, Troy Hill may be our #2 starter next year and he sure played like it on Sunday. Forget Jones, did we hear from anyone Hill was playing against?

I want us to keep all of them. Depth is a good thing.

Yeah.....but you can't. I mean if you want to add a vet OL, extend Kupp/Johnson/Ramsey before they hit FA, someone has to go.

My point is you can save 3M or 4M on a CB when you can still return 4 other CBs next year.

And sure it depends on what they think of Long and Williams, but if they really like those guys then you can move on from one of those two vets and get a pick while saving cap space.

 

[gabriel18]

Fowler played like a man on a mission . I hope he keeps it up , but he won't be here next year because he'll get overpaid by someone.

 

[Mackeyser]

About Fowler’s Ram future...

Couple of thoughts here.

1. Fowler has to prove consistency if he even hopes for a big extension with the Rams. Minimize or even eliminate the hot and cold roller coaster BS. He’s got 9 remaining games to establish consistency. Clock is ticking.

2. Question: If playing with Ramsey/AD is creating Fowler’s surge environment, then why wouldn’t those guys similarly create the same environment for another and less expensive player? I think it would. So why wouldn’t the Rams be tempted to go with the more inexpensive version? Call it a dividend of the elite status expense of the AD/Ramsey contract investments?

In a non-cap world an owner like Kroenke could simply declare, “sign ‘em all”, but we live in a hard cap world.

Best we can do is sign the true elite players and surround them with best available supporting cast players.

I’m not sure just yet that Fowler is really a “must have” elite type player. A handful more games like that Falcon game could convince me, though. Lol.

I got a long answer, but I'm kinda tired and dizzy, so I'll just say that the extra 0.5 secs or less AD and Fowler needed got them to the QB. Others didn't get there as fast.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I don't see how the Rams can pay Fowler. Resign Littleton. Fowler going to cost too much. Rams need to find more pass rushers. Could be OBO, Ebu and Mathews next year as the foundation.

I don't think we can either, but i'm also not worried about it. With Matthews, Obo, Polite (who everyone seems to dismiss), Durham, Patrick, Lawler, Carraway & Ebukam, ... they will be enough imo.
The Rams will use a high draft pick on a DE/DT to replace Brockers and our defense will be just fine.

 

[Mackeyser]

I don't think we can either, but i'm also not worried about it. With Matthews, Obo, Polite (who everyone seems to dismiss), Durham, Patrick, Lawler, Carraway & Ebukam, ... they will be enough imo.
The Rams will use a high draft pick on a DE/DT to replace Brockers and our defense will be just fine.

Pretty sure Morgan Fox would replace Brockers.

Also, while there's a good chance we don't retain Fowler, that's not a given.

Lastly, I wouldn't count on any draftee starting next year. They all gonna be for depth unless we get lucky on a 2nd rounder who's just lights out.

 

[max]

I pick Littleton. He'll be much cheaper and is more consistent.

Yup. I’m all for paying guys their market value if they’re top quality at their position.

Same thing applies to Kupp. Whatever the market value is for a slot WR without elite speed, Kupp is worth at least that much to the Rams. Letting someone else sign him for $9M/YR is a mistake they won’t let happen.

 

[Riverumbbq]

Pretty sure Morgan Fox would replace Brockers.

Also, while there's a good chance we don't retain Fowler, that's not a given.

Lastly, I wouldn't count on any draftee starting next year. They all gonna be for depth unless we get lucky on a 2nd rounder who's just lights out.

Don't hold your breath. You do realize that Fox is also going to be a free agent following this season ? While he and Lawler may share some early 5T snaps while a rookie is getting up to speed, i'll be very surprised if the Rams don't seek a bigger player with starting potential with that first pick of theirs. With 2 expected 3'rd round draft picks, I wouldn't be shocked if they traded one to move up in the 2'nd to secure a higher quality player. jmo.

 

[PhillyRam]

Don't hold your breath. You do realize that Fox is also going to be a free agent following this season ? While he and Lawler may share some early 5T snaps while a rookie is getting up to speed, i'll be very surprised if the Rams don't seek a bigger player with starting potential with that first pick of theirs. With 2 expected 3'rd round draft picks, I wouldn't be shocked if they traded one to move up in the 2'nd to secure a higher quality player. jmo.

I am guessing one of our top picks next yr (2nd or 3rd) will be a 5T DT, maybe a couple of them will be taken in the first four rounds.

 

[oldnotdead]

IMO Troy Hill isn't the caliber starter you want. Also I can see Nickell being traded or released because he's not worth what he's being paid. They have Darious Williams who probably is a better slot CB. Williams timed as low as 4.3 speed with excellent agility to match in coverage. Nickell is too much like Peters. He's always trying to make a splash play and simply can't be counted on to play the scheme. That's why he got beat more than once in the NFC Championship game.

Next year David Long will start opposite Ramsey. This will finally give Wade the two press man coverage boundary CBs that he loves. David Long runs a 4.45, with an outstanding 6.45 3 cone (agility). This kid has the talent to be outstanding. The Rams will have two very fast and agile boundary CBs. To give you a comparison Ramsey ran a 4.41, and a very good 6.94 3 cone time.

Long hasn't played this year yet because he came in raw and they had other options. But you have to wonder if they won't unleash this CB combo after the bye week. If that's their intention then we should see David Long in rotation with Hill this next game.

Troy's problem is two fold. First he has only average speed for the position running a 4.55 but he lacks the burst coming out of breaks to match receivers who do have that burst. It's why they always gain separation with a crisp route. It's why they left him outside and not inside and went with Roby-Coleman as the slot CB. Hill is due for a raise to $3.4M next year. I don't see him getting that unless he improves his game. But he's shown he's strictly a zone CB not a press man CB. That makes him like Peters, not particularly compatible to Wade's scheme as a starter.

 

[rams1fan]

I cannot see the Rams being able to pay Fowler and Ramsey. Our 2020 cap space is pretty much after draft signings will be about 16 mil. Signing Fowler would mean losing Littleton, Greg Z and Brockers. I suspect we instead will resign Greg Z and Littleton.

 

[jrry32]

Yup. I’m all for paying guys their market value if they’re top quality at their position.

Same thing applies to Kupp. Whatever the market value is for a slot WR without elite speed, Kupp is worth at least that much to the Rams. Letting someone else sign him for $9M/YR is a mistake they won’t let happen.

I think Kupp is going to get the market value of a very good WR. I expect it to cost a pretty penny.

 

[kurtfaulk]

I cannot see the Rams being able to pay Fowler and Ramsey. Our 2020 cap space is pretty much after draft signings will be about 16 mil. Signing Fowler would mean losing Littleton, Greg Z and Brockers. I suspect we instead will resign Greg Z and Littleton.

There's no 1st rounder. The cost of the draft is negligible as the drafted payers will not cost more than the players they are replacing.

.