Cole: Report: Rams could start Mannion if Goff struggles

[So Ram]

I know he will start...He would have to be as bad as Fitzpatrick to get benched. He won't even get to that level on McVays watch anyways.

Then your point . Not to bust your balls.
I think we all want the same thing. The OC also said Goff is even better than he thought & in his words has been AWESOME.

 

[So Ram]

100% personal opinion and wild speculation and nothing more sorry. And Mannion for these coaches, or any Rams coach for that matter, has never done anything to earn the right to push Goff. Doubt or dislike Goff all you want but nothing in this article or following discussion has any basis in reality.

Agree - but truth be told Mannion did beat out Jared Goff for the back up spot in the preseason. He played real well in mop up time. Brought them back for a few wins which was nice to see. When he got in late last season , did not impress me much. Though he could have played a lot better.
--- The nice thing about Jared Goff is how he is taking owner ship.He wants to be great. Weather that will ever become realit has a long time to come to read revelation .

 

[OnceARam]

As I noted before, that's not the case for every team. Teams with top QBs, to turn around a metaphor, "will allow their ship to go down with their Captain"

If we go 0-2 and Goff is looking terrible with 4+ INTs per game, then don't expect him to keep starting especially if Mannion's looks good in the preseason.

The takeaway is only that Goff isn't untouchable and while he has the pole position and the team will give him every chance to win, if he falters (which again, I don't expect in the slightest) then he will be pulled.

Goff won't get "quite a few games". He's never done anything to earn that latitude.

I expect him to be successful. And, no, he's not walking a tightrope where a few bad plays put him on the bench. It's just that he's not going to have a leash like Brady, Big Ben or Ryan would.

You can't do that to QBs. They are special flowers. Remember how Bradford never had a competent backup. Plus, why would you plan to fail? The only way Mannon plays is if he gets his clock cleaned again like he did when Sherman hit him.

 

[Mackeyser]

100% personal opinion and wild speculation and nothing more sorry. And Mannion for these coaches, or any Rams coach for that matter, has never done anything to earn the right to push Goff. Doubt or dislike Goff all you want but nothing in this article or following discussion has any basis in reality.

It's like people read what they want and discard the rest.

Firstly, I support Goff.

Secondly, EVERYONE attending camp has earned the RIGHT to push those above them. As a matter of fact, it's why they are there. Otherwise, they'd already know the 53 and other than bringing some folks to round out practices, they'd just focus on the set 53 and move on.

Thirdly, I'm not so much supporting the article as making the factual point that Goff isn't "untouchable" like Brady, Roethlisberger and Ryan, among the top QBs in this league.

The example I used was if Big Ben has two back to back games to start the season with 6 INTs each, beyond wondering if he has an injury or concussion or if something is being miscommunicated, HC Mike Tomlin isn't going to bench him. Same with guys like Brady, Ryan, Brees and a few others. THOSE guys have a nearly unlimited leash.

MOST of the other QBs in this league, including our promising young signal caller does not. He's never won a game in this league. And while we all root for him and the team to be successful...IF he has an abysmal start, it's just not correct to state that McVay is gonna let him go 0-7 and not even consider a QB switch.

Heck, Aaron Rodgers looked downright pedestrian and his team was about to be eliminated from playoff contention after week 8 and yet... NO talk of benching him and he and his WRs got on the same page and they performed well after that. MOST QBs don't have and won't have that kind of stability in the face of poor play.

That's all I was saying. I wasn't saying I don't support Goff or that he's going to fail or whatever people seem to think I'm saying.

I'm being even MORE obvious than the article... If Goff stinks it up, he'll be replaced. I don't expect it. I actually think that's a remote possibility. But Goff just isn't a top QB, yet, that can stave off being benched IF...IF...IF... he plays poorly over the course of a couple of games.

WE not ME means team first.

Not sure why this is a point of contention.

 

[Mackeyser]

You can't do that to QBs. They are special flowers. Remember how Bradford never had a competent backup. Plus, why would you plan to fail? The only way Mannon plays is if he gets his clock cleaned again like he did when Sherman hit him.

You don't plan to fail. It's called redundancy in a violent contact sport where it's not usual for a QB to play all 16 games across multiple seasons.

Optimally, Goff is perfect for this offense, all the WRs are right where they need to be and this is a magical year.

New England went 11-5 with a backup because they have a coherent system and a competent backup.

We now have a coherent system. With the uncertainty in the NFL, we don't want to be Arizona where if our QB goes down, we're better off punting on first down and hoping our D can outscore the opposing O.

 

[12intheBox]

I agree to non story , but his leash is only so long. This wouldn't be even disgust if it was Big Ben,Rivers , Eli , Brady, Bree's Ext...
Goff has not earned anything ,but a pay check. He is 0-7 as a starting QB.

The big QBs have their job their job because they have earned them. Goff has his because of the investment made into him. Even though their leashes came for different reasons, they are equally long.

If Eli, Ben, Etc stink it up they would get ultimately get benched - they just aren't as likely to stink it up - because we have already seen that they can play.

 

[So Ram]

The big QBs have their job their job because they have earned them. Goff has his because of the investment made into him. Even though their leashes came for different reasons, they are equally long.

If Eli, Ben, Etc stink it up they would get ultimately get benched - they just aren't as likely to stink it up - because we have already seen that they can play.

Fisher gave Case Keemun a pretty long leash. If Goff plays as well as Case did he will keep his job.
If Jared Goff plays like he did last season he will be benched before he even see's game 7 . 0-13 as a starter for a career would be pretty bad .
I know Troy Aikman was like 2-14 before Emmit Smith.

 

[OldSchool]

 

[Soul Surfer]

I don't care if it's Goff, Mannion or some camp arm.

I remember I camp arm by the name of Kurt Warner.

He turned out okay.

 

[Ramzheart]

It may seem obvious, but let's dial back the cynicism to ask one question:

Are there any teams in the NFL in the past 10 years that essentially will chose to live and die by their starting QB no matter HOW BAD they play?

The answer is an unqualified yes.

Not every team is willing to bench a starting QB, especially if they are considered one of the best in the NFL.

Ben Roethlisberger could have back to back 6 INT games... and other than reporters wondering if he had a concussion or other injury, nothing would change. His play would have to be so outrageously bad over an extended period before Mike Tomlin would even consider a change.

So... what this story may be referring to is that Goff simply IS NOT one of those QBs to this organization. He won't have an unlimited leash.

I expect great things from young Goff. I said that we was only a mistake in the context that Fisher would misuse and underdevelop him, but put in an offense like Asshole Face's, he would thrive. Well, I think McVay's offense may just be as good or better for Goff than Payton's WCO.

That said, if he struggles, which I don't expect...at all... seems the leak is stating that the organization is committed to winning, not individual people.

After all we've been through, that's a good sign.

That we have someone who is developing BOTH Goff and Mannion (because QBs never get injured in this league...ever) is an even BETTER sign.

Yes, obvious is obvious, but it's not universal. The Pats, Steelers, Falcons, Chargers, Raiders (presuming they quit farting around and sign Derek Carr), and Saints certainly aren't in this category and their may be others.

It only means that Goff is gonna have to earn it. And I know no one has a problem with this team FINALLY becoming a full meritocracy where the best guy PLAYS.

I don't care if it's Goff, Mannion or some camp arm.

It's TIME to get back to our formerly winning ways, Rams brothers. And while I expect it to be Goff at the helm, I just want to us to WIN.

I agree, end game is of course winning. Would we have been better off not drafting Goff, I believe so. However, we did and he needs to be giving every opportunity to succeed and I believe this staff will do just that. Who knows what that time frame is... but if and when they determine in their minds Goff doesn't have it, they will and should move on!

Also, there's a difference between riding a veteran QB that's not winning and trying to develop a young and inexperienced one!

 

[thomonkey]

every nfl qb will be benched if they play bad enough. even brady would get benched if he plays bad enough. the report seems to imply goff has a shorter leash than most which i doubt seeing as they named him the starter week 1. you know a qb has a short leash when he has to compete in camp for his job.

 

[Mackeyser]

every nfl qb will be benched if they play bad enough. even brady would get benched if he plays bad enough. the report seems to imply goff has a shorter leash than most which i doubt seeing as they named him the starter week 1. you know a qb has a short leash when he has to compete in camp for his job.

Not to quibble, but I thought Goff was appointed as the starter going into mini-camp and OTAs with the plan being for him to live up to the Franchise QB draft status and being given all the mentoring he can handle and then some.

That's different from "Goff is the starter Game 1". That would imply that no circumstance would prevent him from starting game 1.

Listen to McVay and how he talks about production. If Goff is really making progress, even if they love everything about his development, but he just isn't producing, I have a hard time thinking that Goff will be able to cruise through the preseason and start Game 1 even if he's really struggling (remember, this is sort of a worst case scenario, it's not my preference).

Do I think he'll struggle mightily? No. Some struggles because I think he's still got work to do being under center which I've been point blank saying that Goff HAS TO BE ABLE to function under center for Gurley to be successful.

As for every NFL QB being benched, I disagree. Did they bench Aaron Rodgers when he basically tanked the first half of last season? Granted, he WRs dropped an unusual amount of balls, but he also wasn't making good decisions, took dumb sacks and simply wasn't playing well. They were on the verge of being eliminated from the post-season at mid-season. Eight games. And there was NO talk of benching him.

McVay has to know that he can't go 6-10 and talk about Goff's progress. He's expected to bring significant improvement and hopefully a winning season which means 9+ wins.

I don't think Goff is on a tightrope. That's NOT what I'm saying. The only thing I've said is that Goff just IS NOT at the same place of career stability that the top QBs are. He's going to have to earn that. Until then, we can only root him on and hope for the best.

I think he's an excellent fit for this offense and it's not like he's never lifted up a losing team before, so I'm actually encouraged.

I just don't understand the controversy in saying that Goff =/= top QBs like Brady, Brees, Ryan, Big Ben, etc. Not yet, at least. Hopefully, after this season, we're talking about Goff the way folks talked about Derek Carr after his sophomore season with at least as steep a trajectory.

Hopefully.

 

[thomonkey]

Not to quibble, but I thought Goff was appointed as the starter going into mini-camp and OTAs with the plan being for him to live up to the Franchise QB draft status and being given all the mentoring he can handle and then some.

That's different from "Goff is the starter Game 1". That would imply that no circumstance would prevent him from starting game 1.

Listen to McVay and how he talks about production. If Goff is really making progress, even if they love everything about his development, but he just isn't producing, I have a hard time thinking that Goff will be able to cruise through the preseason and start Game 1 even if he's really struggling (remember, this is sort of a worst case scenario, it's not my preference).

Do I think he'll struggle mightily? No. Some struggles because I think he's still got work to do being under center which I've been point blank saying that Goff HAS TO BE ABLE to function under center for Gurley to be successful.

As for every NFL QB being benched, I disagree. Did they bench Aaron Rodgers when he basically tanked the first half of last season? Granted, he WRs dropped an unusual amount of balls, but he also wasn't making good decisions, took dumb sacks and simply wasn't playing well. They were on the verge of being eliminated from the post-season at mid-season. Eight games. And there was NO talk of benching him.

McVay has to know that he can't go 6-10 and talk about Goff's progress. He's expected to bring significant improvement and hopefully a winning season which means 9+ wins.

I don't think Goff is on a tightrope. That's NOT what I'm saying. The only thing I've said is that Goff just IS NOT at the same place of career stability that the top QBs are. He's going to have to earn that. Until then, we can only root him on and hope for the best.

I think he's an excellent fit for this offense and it's not like he's never lifted up a losing team before, so I'm actually encouraged.

I just don't understand the controversy in saying that Goff =/= top QBs like Brady, Brees, Ryan, Big Ben, etc. Not yet, at least. Hopefully, after this season, we're talking about Goff the way folks talked about Derek Carr after his sophomore season with at least as steep a trajectory.

Hopefully.

I stand by my comment that ANY qb will elbe benched if they play bad enough. Rodgers has a long leash but at some point father time will catch up to him and when his play declines to a certain point he will be benched. This idea that anybody in the NFL is unbenchable is false.

I'm not saying Goff has the same leeway as elite QBs but he has a longer leash than keenum who literally had to battle for his starting job. If maniun is outplaying Goff in the preseason I bet Goff would still get the start because he has an extremely high ceiling. Do you think Wentz was out playing Bradford in Phili? No way! They just saw that wentz was pretty close and felt that he had potential for growth so got rid of Bradford. Same would happen to maniun and that's why goff is already named the starter.

I happen to think goff is better than maniun already and will outplay him all season but that's irrelevant to the discussion we're having. Let's not forget that when maniun was put in he immediately threw a pick six. Maniun doing well against 4th stringers in preseason means nothing.

 

[bubbaramfan]

I'm on the "Start Mannion" bandwagon.:help:

 

[Soul Surfer]

I'm on the "Start Mannion" bandwagon.:help:

In college Manion looked like a big galoot out there, (not very athletic looking) but he was strangely effective and has a big arm.

Pretty sure you're kidding but.... I would have to see a seven-game skid out of Goff before I pulled him.

Way too much invested not to give him a full thorough vetting.

 

[dieterbrock]

I know Troy Aikman was like 2-14 before Emmit Smith

Troy Aikman was pretty bad until Norv Turner showed up

 

[Mackeyser]

I stand by my comment that ANY qb will elbe benched if they play bad enough. Rodgers has a long leash but at some point father time will catch up to him and when his play declines to a certain point he will be benched. This idea that anybody in the NFL is unbenchable is false.

I'm not saying Goff has the same leeway as elite QBs but he has a longer leash than keenum who literally had to battle for his starting job. If maniun is outplaying Goff in the preseason I bet Goff would still get the start because he has an extremely high ceiling. Do you think Wentz was out playing Bradford in Phili? No way! They just saw that wentz was pretty close and felt that he had potential for growth so got rid of Bradford. Same would happen to maniun and that's why goff is already named the starter.

I happen to think goff is better than maniun already and will outplay him all season but that's irrelevant to the discussion we're having. Let's not forget that when maniun was put in he immediately threw a pick six. Maniun doing well against 4th stringers in preseason means nothing.

We're basically agreeing.

That said, if Goff is struggling, he won't get 8 games, especially if the coaching staff has any faith in Mannion.

Things like exactly how much Goff would have to struggle and for how long we can't know and, frankly, I'm not going to dwell on.

I think Goff's going to do well.

And...I'm encouraged that we have a backup plan. If McVay can coach up Kirk Cousins, I have every faith that he and the staff will coach up both QBs.

And, honestly, I'd rather we have two good QBs instead of the Fisher plan of QB by Thunderdome and no viable backup plan...

 

[Prime Time]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/06/01/...acksonville-jaguars-team-cultures-need-change

by Chris Burke

Not exactly going out on a limb here, but I think Jared Goff will be the Rams’ Week 1 starter. That said, I also think there is more than simple coach-speak to Sean McVay’s declaration during a press conference this week that “whoever we feel like gives us the best chance is who’s going to play behind center.”

Other than being selected at No. 1 overall, Goff did little last year to tattoo his name atop the depth chart. Forcing him to beat out Sean Mannion is the correct approach, no matter how poorly it reflects on Los Angeles’ aggressive move to trade up in last year’s draft.

Let’s also be honest about what happened around Goff in 2016: The Rams’ offense was a mess long before Goff even stepped into the huddle. Just take a look at what happened with other promising Rams’ talents during the Jeff Fisher era—Greg Robinson, Tavon Austin, even Todd Gurley to some extent—and it’s obvious that regime did little to put its offensive weapons in positions to succeed.

McVay’s arrival (and the implementation of his scheme) should help Goff improve. That does not mean McVay has to be Goff’s babysitter. If Mannion somehow manages to outplay Goff in the coming months, the Rams should explore their options.

 

[Dxmissile]

I remember stating that the new coaches are going to want competition in the QB spot and I was killed on this board for stating that. I didn't even say Goff wasn't going to win I was just pointing the same thing out that everyone else is. Goff is not McVays QB and if Goff is truly better he will start and play but competition just makes both of them better which is definitely a win for the team and should be for the fans as well

 

[OldSchool]

I remember stating that the new coaches are going to want competition in the QB spot and I was killed on this board for stating that. I didn't even say Goff wasn't going to win I was just pointing the same thing out that everyone else is. Goff is not McVays QB and if Goff is truly better he will start and play but competition just makes both of them better which is definitely a win for the team and should be for the fans as well

Goff is McVays QB, do you think the Rams hire him if he says he can't or isn't able to work with and succeed with Goff? Also this narrative that he's not tied to Goff applies as much or more to the later round pick Mannion. The only way I'd consider the backup a threat is if he'd brought in a backup from another team he had history with or had drafted somebody this year.


One thing McVay had continually said about every position is that the best players will play and there will be competition. Yet the only position people try to infer meaning to is the QB. Just makes us laugh. Mannion can have all the competition he wants with Goff. He just doesn't have Goffs physical ability and doesn't have much of a chance to win the job.