Clemens

[-X-]

He'll lose more than he wins. There's a tough schedule coming up and this is still an infant team led by a backup QB. I'm not deluding myself into thinking he'll be anything more than he's been his whole career. I mean, just because lots of teams lose their starting QB and go on to win Super Bowls just like the 99 Rams did, doesn't mean it's his fault for being a dedicated player-coach who's wholly committed to giving his all out there but lacks elite skills. You know, except for the fact that he forced the Rams to sign him and make him #2 on the team. That was kinda douchey of him.

 

[jrry32]

How would you know? You didn't watch the game.

He was throwing lasers out there today. Threading the needle like a seamstress on steroids.

Because I've seen him play enough. QBs with good arms don't throw deep balls that look like punts. :wink:

 

[-X-]

Because I've seen him play enough. QBs with good arms don't throw deep balls that look like punts. :wink:

Yay! Hyperbole!

 

[jrry32]

Yay! Hyperbole!

I'm sorry, X, but I don't know how a person could conclude that Clemens doesn't have a weak arm. The guy competes but he just doesn't have the arm. It's why he has a tendency to overthrow passes 10+ yards down the field and his deep balls hang for so long. He has to put a lot of arc on them to get them down the field.

 

[-X-]

I'm sorry, X, but I don't know how a person could conclude that Clemens doesn't have a weak arm. The guy competes but he just doesn't have the arm. It's why he has a tendency to overthrow passes 10+ yards down the field and his deep balls hang for so long. He has to put a lot of arc on them to get them down the field.

That video I just posted was from 20 yards out.

Hyperbole.

 

[jjab360]

I'm sorry, X, but I don't know how a person could conclude that Clemens doesn't have a weak arm. The guy competes but he just doesn't have the arm. It's why he has a tendency to overthrow passes 10+ yards down the field and his deep balls hang for so long. He has to put a lot of arc on them to get them down the field.

Honestly, I'd say he has just an average arm, not a Jimmy Clausen/Colt McCoy arm.

 

[-X-]

And, (at the 2:33 mark) 40 yards off his back foot. Nice arc, decent placement.

 

[jrry32]

And, (at the 2:33 mark) 40 yards off his back foot. Nice arc, decent placement.

Not good arc. That ball hung up there way too long. No reason to put that much arc on it, especially when you're back-shouldering it.

And by the way, he's throwing off his back foot to put more body into it. Watch the mechanics on the throw, that's what I mean by "overthrowing"(not overthrowing as in throwing the ball too far).

It was something I saw in Barkley's mechanics too when he was being hyped up. Clausen as well. Each one had their own unique way of doing it. They put their entire body into the throw because they don't have the arm to make it. Kellen almost jumps into it. He drives his body upwards while rotating his hips into the throw.

Barkley used to lean all the way back when he was throwing the deep ball. Clausen would spin his entire body into the throw. But the parallel here is that all would put as much weight as possible onto their back-foot to put more body into the throw.

Guys who have strong arms don't do that. It looks effortless because it is. Guys like Clemens, Barkley and Clausen are trying to compensate and it shows in their mechanics as well as the arc on their deep balls.

That video I just posted was from 20 yards out.

Hyperbole.

Not hyperbole. And I've now watched the entire game.(Thank you NFL Rewind Condensed)

 

[Thordaddy]

While his accuracy isn't as good, Clemens arm is close to Kurt Warners

 

[jrry32]

While his accuracy isn't as good, Clemens arm is close to Kurt Warners

I don't agree. Kurt's deep ball was a lot flatter and his mechanics were a lot more effortless. Kurt just didn't spin the ball well. Kurt's arm strength wasn't tremendous though. His arm strength was fairly average. Maybe above average at his peak.

 

[max]

All I know is the difference in watching Clemens compared to Bradford is night and day. Clemens is gutsy; gotta give him that. But he can't do anything past 10 yards with accuracy. He's a poor man's Alex Smith.

 

[theramsruleUK]

All I know is the difference in watching Clemens compared to Bradford is night and day. Clemens is gutsy; gotta give him that.

Hes great at escaping pressure and short throws, but I cant see him connecting downfield to often. He did play pretty well yesterday though, better than I expected.

 

[Mojo Ram]

All I know is the difference in watching Clemens compared to Bradford is night and day. Clemens is gutsy; gotta give him that. But he can't do anything past 10 yards with accuracy. He's a poor man's Alex Smith.

This.

 

[-X-]

Not good arc. That ball hung up there way too long. No reason to put that much arc on it, especially when you're back-shouldering it.

And by the way, he's throwing off his back foot to put more body into it. Watch the mechanics on the throw, that's what I mean by "overthrowing"(not overthrowing as in throwing the ball too far).

It was something I saw in Barkley's mechanics too when he was being hyped up. Clausen as well. Each one had their own unique way of doing it. They put their entire body into the throw because they don't have the arm to make it. Kellen almost jumps into it. He drives his body upwards while rotating his hips into the throw.

Barkley used to lean all the way back when he was throwing the deep ball. Clausen would spin his entire body into the throw. But the parallel here is that all would put as much weight as possible onto their back-foot to put more body into the throw.

Guys who have strong arms don't do that. It looks effortless because it is. Guys like Clemens, Barkley and Clausen are trying to compensate and it shows in their mechanics as well as the arc on their deep balls.

Huh? QBs throw off their back foot to add touch. Not force. When you transfer from back to front and uncoil is where you generate the power. And how does the ball hang up there too long when it's a back corner throw and that's where it ends up (at the right time)? Are you looking for exactly 42 degrees of arc or something? Because there was nothing wrong with that throw.

I know what 'overthrowing' means as it relates to mechanics. I played too. You do realize, though, that you're critiquing Clemens like he's a QB with an elite skillset who *should* make all of this effortless. This is like railing on Phil Niekro because his fast ball had no velocity. Why can't we look at what he does well and accept that he's not out there to sabotage the offense. He's out there because our starter is on crutches and Austin Davis isn't even *as good* as Clemens right now. Despite everyone else's morbid curiosity, there's nothing to indicate that Davis has anything more than a conceptual grasp of what to do out there right now.

 

[Selassie I]

Yawn

 

[rhinobean]

The Rams will win 5 games tops this year. They will be drafting in the 4th to 6th range. That my friends is a pathetic football team. NOT a competitive football team.

And Clemens is not the major reason. I think Clemens could win games with a good football team.

Play defense, keep the opponent to 14-17 points and you win games! Easier said than done!

 

[Faceplant]

Huh? QBs throw off their back foot to add touch. Not force. When you transfer from back to front and uncoil is where you generate the power. And how does the ball hang up there too long when it's a back corner throw and that's where it ends up (at the right time)? Are you looking for exactly 42 degrees of arc or something? Because there was nothing wrong with that throw.

I know what 'overthrowing' means as it relates to mechanics. I played too. You do realize, though, that you're critiquing Clemens like he's a QB with an elite skillset who *should* make all of this effortless. This is like railing on Phil Niekro because his fast ball had no velocity. Why can't we look at what he does well and accept that he's not out there to sabotage the offense. He's out there because our starter is on crutches and Austin Davis isn't even *as good* as Clemens right now. Despite everyone else's morbid curiosity, there's nothing to indicate that Davis has anything more than a conceptual grasp of what to do out there right now.

You took the words right off my keyboard. Backfoot throws are NOT a QB "Using his body". Quite the opposite. I thought Kellen played a pretty good game today. We lost because the Ghost of Bud Adams stripped Bennie, Legatron biffed another FG and our defense couldn't stop the run when it counted. KCs fumble didn't help, but whattayagonnado. This team finds new and exiting ways to rip my heart out every week. Almost like they're allergic to winning. Ah well, at least they were competitive again. Really should be 5-4 right now. Tough week.....

 

[Thordaddy]

I don't agree. Kurt's deep ball was a lot flatter and his mechanics were a lot more effortless. Kurt just didn't spin the ball well. Kurt's arm strength wasn't tremendous though. His arm strength was fairly average. Maybe above average at his peak.

I had a close friend who always hated Kurts deep ball, and here and now I apologize to everyone for bringing Kurt into this cuz it seems these conversations where comparisons are made end up bashing someone way beyond anything fair.
I think Martz could win a lot of games with Clemens , he has above average tools ,he aint gonna win no beauty contests (unless I'm his main competition) but once again,I think his ceiling has not been reached,he will get better and a lot of guys who are paid damned well and desperately want to keep those high paying jobs have spent extensive time evaluating him and decided he gives this team the current best chance to win.
Our defense is who takes the "blame" for this loss,there are four teams scoring an average of more that 28 points per game,we yielded Tennessee 7 1/2 points above their season average AND we scored .3 points above OUR season average ,including 7 games where we averaged 1 friggin point more UNDER Sam.
We geared up to stop a slower back Mon. and we did, we got gashed by a fast one and a slow one yesterday,IMO and this is just MO but I think we got a superlative effort Mon. and nothing close to it yesterday from our defense other than the pas rush.
I don't know where this season goes from here probably nowhere and I DO get very frustrated and sometimes curse and wish I had used the time more productively ,but GOTDAMIT LADS I'm a football fan and win or lose IMA watch the games ,cuz see IMO this is sorta like voting for me, IF you don't vote and you don't like the direction of the country I say you haven't VALIDATED your right to bizatch, if ya didn't go through the agony and want to come here and bidge I'm sorta ,shall we say ambivalent ?
If ya want to gripe about how it tastes ya gotta eat it in my book. K?:bigup:

 

[jrry32]

Huh? QBs throw off their back foot to add touch. Not force. When you transfer from back to front and uncoil is where you generate the power. And how does the ball hang up there too long when it's a back corner throw and that's where it ends up (at the right time)? Are you looking for exactly 42 degrees of arc or something? Because there was nothing wrong with that throw.

Precisely. Which is why Clemens put more weight on his back foot prior to the transfer. Watch his hips. They drive through the throw, this wasn't a guy throwing off his back foot. This was a guy leaning to get more on the throw.

Here's a good example:


Watch how far Clausen leans back before throwing. He puts as much weight as possible on the back foot to put as much body as possible into his throw. Same sort of thing Clemens does.

On the specific throw in question, if he was trying to back-shoulder it, you throw it flatter with more velocity. Otherwise, I'd say he just lobbed the ball up to Pettis. Regardless, I think a flatter throw would have been better on the play. But I doubt it would have made much of a difference. Pettis had a shot at the difficult catch and couldn't quite make it. They let the CB get away with hooking his inside arm anyways.

I know what 'overthrowing' means as it relates to mechanics. I played too. You do realize, though, that you're critiquing Clemens like he's a QB with an elite skillset who *should* make all of this effortless. This is like railing on Phil Niekro because his fast ball had no velocity. Why can't we look at what he does well and accept that he's not out there to sabotage the offense. He's out there because our starter is on crutches and Austin Davis isn't even *as good* as Clemens right now. Despite everyone else's morbid curiosity, there's nothing to indicate that Davis has anything more than a conceptual grasp of what to do out there right now.

Isn't that exactly what I was saying? I feel for Clemens because I'm sure he's really competitive and it's gotta be tough to step in for Sam and be expected to be Sam when you simply don't have that sort of arm talent.

 

[Angry Ram]

Yawn

I agree.