I know the first four years of his rookie deal were guaranteed. I've been hearing local STL media bringing up how much we're due to pay him in the next 2 years. Is there a clause in the rookie contract that doesn't allow a restructure?
Bradford's Contract
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He restructured his deal last season. They moved all the guaranteed money forward to his 4th year. That means the last two years of his deal are non guaranteed. If the Rams feel the need to restructure they will but I doubt Sams agent will do anything until after Sam plays a season to prove his worth.
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He restructured his deal last season. They moved all the guaranteed money forward to his 4th year. That means the last two years of his deal are non guaranteed. If the Rams feel the need to restructure they will but I doubt Sams agent will do anything until after Sam plays a season to prove his worth.
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mr.stlouis
Legend
He'll earn his money. It's not a bad deal at all for the level he was playing at. It does handi cap us in the FA market, though. I don't expect any big moves in free agency like last year.
I think the only way to restructure would be to extend him and back load it. Not sure the Rams are ready to extend him until they see how that knee heals. I know they had talked about extending him before he went down.
He already said he's not open to a restructuring. Can't force that on a player unless you're prepared to cut him if/when he turns it down.
He wants to prove his worth first by having a couple of good years.
He wants to prove his worth first by having a couple of good years.
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- #8
I was checking overthecap.com though and it says we'd have $7M in dead money if we cut him this year. If the last 2 years were non-guaranteed, then we would have NO dead money.
And I get what you're saying X and Sam has a right to prove himself, but I think even HE knows he's not worth the money he's earning. We got screwed by the final year before the rookie wage scale. I just don't understand why he can't take a pay cut and PROVE himself that way. The best QBs in the games have taken pay cuts to allow their teams to add or resign more talent around them, Sam is hindering the Rams ability to do that. I've been one of the biggest Bradford supporters of ALL, but even I can't deny how annoying his contract is.
Which leads me to: how much more is Sam worth than a rookie QB who is learning on the fly? Is he worth $13M more? Does he elevate the TEAM that much more than a rookie QB could? And who knows how much MORE talent we could acquire with $13M in the bank? Maybe the rookie QB we (would) add wouldn't be as good as Sam (now) in year 1, but Sam alone isn't worth more than a solid rookie QB and some additional talent. The easy answer is NO. I just can't wrap my head around the fact that PEYTON "55 Touchdown, MVP, Super Bowl QB" Manning is making the same salary as Sam next year. Sam's GOT to realize he's hurting our team TERRIBLY. Its already tough enough as it is to compete in the NFC West and make the playoffs, just ask the 10-6 Cards, but to have a guy who is eating up nearly 1/6 of your cap who has 2 serious injuries since entering the NFL who's never gone over .500 makes it really hard to compete with SF & SEA in adding TALENT.
Not trying to be a dick, but please name one. And, don't mention Brady because his extension provided him with more guaranteed money than did his previous deal.
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- #10
Tom Brady is still a legit case. Sure more guaranteed money, but he went from 4-year $72M to 5-year $60M
that would be the remanent of the signing bonus they gave him in his first season, which is divided over the length of his contact.
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But that's not legitimately taking less money since the non guaranteed portion was really never in the equation to begin with. He didn't do the team any "favors" other than freeing up some short term cap space. He took home more money at the end of the day.
Fisher and Snead have both talked about how they want to build this team through the draft, with a few FAs sprinkled in here or there. they have a lot of youth on this team that should only get better, I don't think they are interested in bringing in any high price free agents anymore, they have the roster pretty much filled out, I think they will be looking at the second tier FAs for someone to push a starter and for depth.
Here's where I disagree with you, or at least see it a different way. And I was gonna call you and talk to you about this, but I've been tied up with various things all day. Plus, I didn't want you to keep me on the phone for four hours again. lol.
Anyway. Let's break it down.
"I think even HE knows he's not worth the money he's earning."
Let me ask you a question. Would YOU think you were worth that money in his situation? Taking for granted that you tried like a mother fucker to work with what the front office was providing you, and getting beat up in the process, would you think you were overpaid? When the Organization, through it's drafting and free agent acquisitions provided you with over 30 different receiving targets going into 2013, and over 25 different O-linemen going into that same year (most of which don't play football anymore), would you be of the impression that you were given everything needed to succeed? Would you take a pay cut? I wouldn't. You can't, as an Organization, commit to paying that hefty price tag that came with drafting him #1 overall, fail to set him up for success, and then ask for money back on the premise of your own failures. It's wrong.
"Sam is hindering the Rams ability to do that (add or resign more talent)"
No. No he's not. The Rams are doing that - willingly - by paying him what the NFL dictated was the going rate at the time. And he's not even the highest paid member of the team last year. How many times does the CFO of the Organization have to tell us that the contract isn't a problem before we realize it's true? They can cut him and add a rookie QB, but that rookie QB is going to, at some point, command a new contract. Then what? Cut him too? The Rams are building a team against the model all NFL teams have to build by. Pay the QB the highest salary (most of the time), and pay your key players a lot of money too. Fill the rest with positions that you CAN rotate personnel in and out of. You can't keep rotating QBs in and out to maintain cap flexibility. And Manning's contract is not structured the same as Sam's. Take a closer look at his guarantees. The cap figures may look the same, but there are enormous penalties attached to Manning.
Did you think he was hurting the team last year and prohibiting them from adding talent? I'm sure you did, because the situations were identical in the 2013 offseason. He was the high paid guy, and we were tight against the cap. So what did we do? Despite Sam's crippling contract? We signed Jared Cook to a 5yr/$35M contract, signed Jake Long to a 4yr/$34M contract, and drafted Tavon Austin, Stedman Bailey, Benny Cunningham, Zac Stacy and Barret Jones. How the hell did we pull THAT off??? Money management. Pretend Bradford is in his second contract already and the team has failed to reach their milestones because of various injuries and whatnot. It'll make it look less painful. Or we could cut him and sign a guy like Percy Harvin to a contract equally as high as Bradford's. That could probably put us over the hump. Not.
If they want to draft a developmental QB to hedge their bets and plan for the future (which I suspect they will), then great. That's a plan I can get behind. But complaining about his contract like it's some sort of albatross doesn't do anything but reveal how ignorant we truly are about the inner workings of the cap and how the muckity mucks up in the front office always seem to have a way to get around it. This whole ROI angle is tiring to me. You want a return on your investment? Then how about buying more than one share.
Quarterbacks are expensive! Get over it!
Yeah, you can draft RG3, Kraperfuck, or Wilson on the cheap... But then you got to live with their growing pains. And... That's IF you actually find a good one. Chances are... Risky.
Then, when you finally find your man; prepare to pay.
Stop whining. QBs are expensive.
(Not directed at anyone. Just tired of this argument)
Yeah, you can draft RG3, Kraperfuck, or Wilson on the cheap... But then you got to live with their growing pains. And... That's IF you actually find a good one. Chances are... Risky.
Then, when you finally find your man; prepare to pay.
Stop whining. QBs are expensive.
(Not directed at anyone. Just tired of this argument)
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- #16
If they're one thing I "dislike" most about this regime after 2 years its the BIG contracts they've handed out to FAs who have underpeformed. Langford isn't on that list for me (like he is for many others), but Long, Finnegan, Wells, and Cook have been MAJOR disappointments to me. In hindsight ALL of these signings were somewhat risky to risky. Long has the Long injury history, Finnegan had a good career in Tennessee but was NEVER as dominant as the contract we gave him (I personally wanted Carr bc of his age), Wells was 30 or so when we added him (didn't have a problem w/signing), Cook never broke out in Tennesse but looked primed to do so w/an adequate QB in Sam (unfortunately we won't see them together again until September).
I'm DONE adding guys with BIG TIME contracts through FA for the most part. We can add OL through the draft; who's the last great OL we've added through FA? Kyle Turley for a YEAR? And then there's Jacob Bell, Jason Brown, Harvey Dahl, and Scott Wells who's paydays have far exceeded their play. Add a LG & OT in the draft & resign Saffold to an incentive laden contract.
The BEST FAs get resigned by their teams, that's why I'd rather just look for Dunbar's and Langford's. I don't even like the idea of Byrd. I'd be open to a mid priced FS, but imo McLeod is ok. He made a LOT of tackles in 2013 where he was the last line of defense. Kid has underrated hitting power and has good cover skills. He's upgradable, but he's not the "problem" on D.
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- #17
1. I get your first argument, and I've been calling for more help for Sam just as much as anyone over the past 4 years. I can't tell you how many arguments I've gotten into with Ram fans & non-Ram fans who fail to grasp the concept of a "team." Sam can't do it alone, I get that. I'd agree with you, if I were Sam I'd stick to my contract.
2. I understand your argument here too. We got butt fucked by the rookie wage salary not beginning until 2011. I guess I'm still bitter about that, even though there's nothing the Rams can do. Just bad luck. You're right about the model in the NFL for the QB often being the highest paid player on most teams (the good QBs), the frustrating part is that bc of the rookie wage scale guys like Jamarcus Russell bring home paydays close to some of the highest paid QBs in the league without proving ANYTHING. Sam is far better than Russell, but I hope you get my point. With the NEW rookie wage scale guys like Luck, RG, Kap, Wilson have to EARN their BIG contract (one after the rookie contract) that Sam never had to EARN. I think Sam has all the tools to be a top 10 QB, but it is frustrating that we were the last #1 overall pick to pay big.
3. Sam's cap number was also $5M smaller last year. It's not all Sam's fault, I'll admit I've been a bit harsh on this thread. The team also needs to make wiser decisions in FA. I know hindsight is 20/20, but I knew the Long signing could be problematic. I also wanted Carr over Finnegan because of age and sheer production. As we solidify our core and fill the cracks these next few drafts, we will no longer need to sign any HIGH priced FAs but our own. SF & SEA with a few exceptions (Harvin, Rice, etc.) have hit many home runs in their trades and FAs. I'd like to see more consistency in our FA signings.
4. I'd love a developmental QB in rd 3-5 range. Imo as much as I love Sam and have supported him since 2010, 2013 is do or die. We need to be above .500. Idk if we let him go if we miss the playoffs because as you saw AZ was 10-6 and missed them in our tough division. But we need RESULTS.
I know, man. I feel the same way about the system that was in place when we drafted him. Sam's contract is largely disproportionate to his experience and production. Essentially because he didn't prove anything before he was drafted, and I think anyone would agree with that. But I look at it like this. At some point, all QBs who are worth their weight are going to command the kind of salary he's getting now. Flacco, Ryan, Eli, Rivers, etc. They all end up getting the same kind of salary, and so will all of the QBs who got drafted after 2010 that you already mentioned. But those teams (whiners, seadderall, colts) will have to make some tough choices when those 2nd contracts come up (key players at other positions). We're already structured to accommodate Bradford, and he's going to live up to the contract. In the very off-chance he doesn't, then we'll be in better shape than those teams I just mentioned because we're grooming our young talent as opposed to those other teams who will have to replace their key players with rookies or cast-offs. Our window is opening up this year (and next), so it's up to Fisher to capitalize on the opportunity.
When you are trying to bring in talent to a team that has been as bad as the Rams for as long as they were it is going to cost extra to sign FAs. We are hopefully moving beyond that point and have a solid enough core that we can get to a point of developing our own players and not being big players in the FA market.
Bradford can be a SB QB with the right talent around him. They are getting there. Stacy is a huge find after letting SJ39 leave. TA and Bailey are going to be good or better players in the next few years. The combination we have at TE are going to be good for a few years. The offense is very close but they still need a couple of blue chip players to put them over the top.
The defense is very close too and only need a couple of players to make them a top 5 team. Keep Dunbar with the team and sign someone to replace Finnegan and they are good enough to take over games.
Special teams improved and we have an excellent punter and very good kicker.
This team is very close if they improve the O line and keep Sam clean they will be in the hunt to win the NFCW next year. It won't be easy but they will compete.
Bradford can be a SB QB with the right talent around him. They are getting there. Stacy is a huge find after letting SJ39 leave. TA and Bailey are going to be good or better players in the next few years. The combination we have at TE are going to be good for a few years. The offense is very close but they still need a couple of blue chip players to put them over the top.
The defense is very close too and only need a couple of players to make them a top 5 team. Keep Dunbar with the team and sign someone to replace Finnegan and they are good enough to take over games.
Special teams improved and we have an excellent punter and very good kicker.
This team is very close if they improve the O line and keep Sam clean they will be in the hunt to win the NFCW next year. It won't be easy but they will compete.
I actually believe Bradford's contract is a positive for the Rams future...although that seems weird
First of all, if Bradford becomes the QB that he is capable of being, then we will resign him. If not, and the Rams go a different direction (which I don't think they will) then we will have a huge savings on the cap. But playing devils advocate and say we do resign Bradford, he might get a pay raise, perhaps up to $20 million a year, or about 3 million more. That will not devastate our team trying to resign guys because it's only a bump of 3 million. The Ravens last year had to give a huge raise to Flacco and ended up cutting a lot of players to make room for it. The Rams won't.
When it's time to re-up Kaeperdick or Wilson they will get Huge, Huge raises. It will kill their team. They will have to let good players go. The Rams don't. This will end up working out for the Rams, but it won't for another year or two.
First of all, if Bradford becomes the QB that he is capable of being, then we will resign him. If not, and the Rams go a different direction (which I don't think they will) then we will have a huge savings on the cap. But playing devils advocate and say we do resign Bradford, he might get a pay raise, perhaps up to $20 million a year, or about 3 million more. That will not devastate our team trying to resign guys because it's only a bump of 3 million. The Ravens last year had to give a huge raise to Flacco and ended up cutting a lot of players to make room for it. The Rams won't.
When it's time to re-up Kaeperdick or Wilson they will get Huge, Huge raises. It will kill their team. They will have to let good players go. The Rams don't. This will end up working out for the Rams, but it won't for another year or two.