Bernie: NFL Isn’t Going to Let Kroenke Carpetbag His Way Into LA –Video

[mr.stlouis]

I thought KP(Koman Properties) development bought it?

I don't know anymore... haven't talked about it in a long. Thought it was Stan or a company connected to Stan, like the one that purchased the 60 acres. Whatever, though. At 500,000 a year no way Stan moves the team to a city that fails at football.

 

[Thordaddy]

It's going to be hard for an owner to EVER get the deal that John Shaw brokered but regardless, I think Stan just wants a deal that is all his. Many of the arguments against the Rams moving have been contested, especially with this land purchase but the biggest one, Kroenke's ties to the St. Louis region, still remain. I haven't seen anyone present a compelling argument for why he'd cut off his own nuts in Missouri. He seems to genuinely want to make that region not just successful, but a force.

Don't discount the idea that someone COULD get a better deal than Shaw did and that keeping Stan could be the cheapest route this city can take now as it was before,as far as what we each think Stan thinks,so far IMA go off what he's asked for and take that at face value rather than judge the man based upon ideas of greed and avarice projected upon him because of his success,I'm weary of that meme,I see too many hospitals ,private school endowments,churches and other civic donations from people liike Stan to buy into the ,he's just about money universal indictments.

 

[moklerman]

I don't know anymore... haven't talked about it in a long. Thought it was Stan or a company connected to Stan, like the one that purchased the 60 acres. Whatever, though. At 500,000 a year no way Stan moves the team to a city that fails at football.

Are you talking about St. Louis? I assume you're not as biased as you usually are but your point doesn't make sense considering the loss of the Cardinals(and to a lesser extent, the All-Stars and Gunners).

But your point was that Kroenke buying the Chrysler plant didn't get any press. I guess there's a good reason if it never actually happened.

 

[moklerman]

Don't discount the idea that someone COULD get a better deal than Shaw did and that keeping Stan could be the cheapest route this city can take now as it was before,as far as what we each think Stan thinks,so far IMA go off what he's asked for and take that at face value rather than judge the man based upon ideas of greed and avarice projected upon him because of his success,I'm weary of that meme,I see too many hospitals ,private school endowments,churches and other civic donations from people liike Stan to buy into the ,he's just about money universal indictments.

I hope you're not assigning those opinions to me. Stan's personal ties to St. Louis are what have me convinced that in spite of all the proverbial dots that connect to make a move to LA very feasible for the Rams, that it ultimately won't come to that. Kroenke's and Goodell's personal interests in keeping the NFL in St. Louis will be why the Rams stay there.

The only scenario I can come up with where the Rams are allowed to move is if Khan plans on moving the Jaguars to St. Louis. The Dome's already there, it's the franchise that should have been given to St. Louis via expansion, Khan gets to go "home" and Jacksonville can keep the name of colors of the Jaguars and St. Louis can have it's(well, relatively) own team. Not that the league cares too much about the Rams but I don't think they'd want to see the Rams horns disappear or lay dormant.

But that's such a fantastic scenario that there's no way all of that would transpire.

I still say that some team that has not even been seriously considered for LA winds up moving there. Rams and Jaguars make a lot of sense in a lot of ways but it'll be someone else. When it all boils down, I actually just want what's best for the Rams. I could be very wrong about LA being a better situation and I hope Stan can make St. Louis the force that he intends it to be. I'm just tired of the Rams being the red-headed stepchild.

 

[TexRamFan]

I hope you're not assigning those opinions to me. Stan's personal ties to St. Louis are what have me convinced that in spite of all the proverbial dots that connect to make a move to LA very feasible for the Rams, that it ultimately won't come to that. Kroenke's and Goodell's personal interests in keeping the NFL in St. Louis will be why the Rams stay there.

The only scenario I can come up with where the Rams are allowed to move is if Khan plans on moving the Jaguars to St. Louis. The Dome's already there, it's the franchise that should have been given to St. Louis via expansion, Khan gets to go "home" and Jacksonville can keep the name of colors of the Jaguars and St. Louis can have it's(well, relatively) own team. Not that the league cares too much about the Rams but I don't think they'd want to see the Rams horns disappear or lay dormant.

But that's such a fantastic scenario that there's no way all of that would transpire.

I still say that some team that has not even been seriously considered for LA winds up moving there. Rams and Jaguars make a lot of sense in a lot of ways but it'll be someone else. When it all boils down, I actually just want what's best for the Rams. I could be very wrong about LA being a better situation and I hope Stan can make St. Louis the force that he intends it to be. I'm just tired of the Rams being the red-headed stepchild.

With all do respect moklerman, what proverbial dots are you referring to that make the Rams move to LA feasible? Are you referring to feasible from a financial standpoint?

Do not get me wrong, the Rams could move to LA, London or any place that would give Stan what he is asking. So moving is definitely an option and if the City of St Louis cannot come up with an agreement that suits all parties, then this gets even more interesting.

But financially Stan has it MADE in St Louis right now. And in combination with his ties there the dots point to them staying IMO. Just curious to hear why you believe the dots point a move to LA feasible?

 

[moklerman]

With all do respect moklerman, what proverbial dots are you referring to that make the Rams move to LA feasible? Are you referring to feasible from a financial standpoint?

Do not get me wrong, the Rams could move to LA, London or any place that would give Stan what he is asking. So moving is definitely an option and if the City of St Louis cannot come up with an agreement that suits all parties, then this gets even more interesting.

But financially Stan has it MADE in St Louis right now. And in combination with his ties there the dots point to them staying IMO. Just curious to hear why you believe the dots point a move to LA feasible?

Feasible's not the right word. Conceivable would have been better.

 

[mr.stlouis]

Are you talking about St. Louis? I assume you're not as biased as you usually are but your point doesn't make sense considering the loss of the Cardinals(and to a lesser extent, the All-Stars and Gunners).

But your point was that Kroenke buying the Chrysler plant didn't get any press. I guess there's a good reason if it never actually happened.

Whatever! Thought it did happen, geez.

STL lost 1 team... LA lost 3 teams lol. If the Rams went there they'd just end up moving again lol.

Leave me alone you LA guys!! I just like taking shots at your city without consequence... not that big of a deal. Just because I'm bias doesn't make u right... so there. Lol

 

[LesBaker]

I still don't get why people don't see the obvious.

The NFL itself owns the rights to the market. My guess is that they could sell access to it for 2 billion dollars, maybe 3 billion. Or 2 billion each to two different groups. Eventually that will happen. But no current owner is going to shell out that kind of money after already shelling out hundreds and hundreds of millions or over a billion for their current team.

Why would they let someone that currently owns a team move there for a small relocation fee? Of course the answer is they would never allow that to happen or it would have already happened.

Since the Rams and Raiders have left we have seen......

The Browns leave and become the Ravens for a small relocation fee
Then become reborn as the Browns at a huge expansion fee....over half a billion
The Oilers leave and become the Titans for a small relocation fee
Then become reborn as the Texans for a huge expansion fee of nearly three quarters of a billion
Jacksonville with a metro population barely over a million gets a team for 206 million
Charlotte lands a team the same year for the same expansion fee of 206 million

And LA gets nothing. Well they get a lot of saber rattling but that's all it's been for almost twenty years. If it was such a good move and would make some rich beyond rich then why isn't a team there? Essentially six franchises have been created.

Why in the world would anyone think that the league is going to let someone move into LA without cutting a massive check for expansion?

And why would SK cut that check when he could build a lavish stadium and get all the revenue from Rams games and oodles of other events for parking, beer, pretzels, water, programs and souvineers, food and everything else?

And by the way cutting that check to go to LA, whatever group or person does eventually cut it, doesn't include a stadium, which is going to be another billion dollars.

Not to be rude to any posters but anyone that thinks the Rams are going to LA is willfully ignoring a gigantic pile of facts that make it a near impossibility, while choosing to buy into pipe dreams and myths and rumors.

The Rams aren't going anywhere but to a new stadium in the STL metro area and I am still willing to wager anyone any amount of money they want to bet on that.

 

[moklerman]

The LA situation has changed though. Now that the Coliseum doesn't hold exclusive stadium rights the whole landscape is different. The Coliseum is why the Rams moved to Anaheim. It's why Al Davis moved back to Oakland. It's a big part of why nothing has been accomplished since '95. Rosenbloom wouldn't have moved the Rams if they'd made upgrades. Same thing with Big Al. At least a couple of the subsequent NFL back to LA proposals fizzled because of the Coliseum's involvement.

A lot of it has been and will be about league approval. They choose what will be allowed and what will be charged so while these numbers are daunting, they aren't inflexible.

 

[LesBaker]

The LA situation has changed though. Now that the Coliseum doesn't hold exclusive stadium rights the whole landscape is different. The Coliseum is why the Rams moved to Anaheim. It's why Al Davis moved back to Oakland. It's a big part of why nothing has been accomplished since '95. Rosenbloom wouldn't have moved the Rams if they'd made upgrades. Same thing with Big Al. At least a couple of the subsequent NFL back to LA proposals fizzled because of the Coliseum's involvement.

A lot of it has been and will be about league approval. They choose what will be allowed and what will be charged so while these numbers are daunting, they aren't inflexible.

They aren't inflexible of course. But do you honestly think that SK after shelling out the money for the Rams is then going to shell out more to move. Then pay rent and get no revenue from the stadium or parking lots?

It's a waste of bandwidth to discuss it, but that hasn't stopped people from talking about it.

SK isn't moving the Rams to LA, it's NEVER going to happen. He can make more money in STL and that's a FACT.

I had an event production business for about 12 years, I know a whole lot, probably more than anyone you know, about what venues earn, where the money comes from and so on because I've rented large space in convention centers in several cities. I've rented out the freaking AlamoDome in fact.

SK will make WAY more money owning the stadium in STL than moving the team to LA. As in more than double. He will in fact make money off the revenues from the venue itself than what the Rams actually make for him.

I've gotten so tired of this discussion because only a few people actually know shit about what they are talking about and throw up so much bullshit it's laughable. A Rams move to LA makes the least sense for SK from a financial standpoint.

 

[Selassie I]

It sucks ass that this "move" worry even exists. As a Ram Fan of 40 years, I hate the separation that this has created between the fan base in LA and STL. What other team has anything like this that causes a rift between the fans? Maybe Oakland? I don't know, but it has to hurt the brand,,, especially in STL during the lease / stadium "negotiations".

Apparently the leverage that is created by Stan's current style of dealing with this issue is more important to him than building a sense of pride and trust with his fan base in STL. I find that part disappointing. It's hard to put a dollar value on a super loyal, appreciative, committed fan base ... or is it ?

 

[LesBaker]

It sucks ass that this "move" worry even exists. As a Ram Fan of 40 years, I hate the separation that this has created between the fan base in LA and STL. What other team has anything like this that causes a rift between the fans? Maybe Oakland? I don't know, but it has to hurt the brand,,, especially in STL during the lease / stadium "negotiations".

Apparently the leverage that is created by Stan's current style of dealing with this issue is more important to him than building a sense of pride and trust with his fan base in STL. I find that part disappointing. It's hard to put a dollar value on a super loyal, appreciative, committed fan base ... or is it ?

He will be assigning a dollar value to it for sure. Via ticket prices, parking and confessions and so on lol.

Just be patient. It'll be three more years but he will have the stadium he wants.

 

[Selassie I]

He will be assigning a dollar value to it for sure. Via ticket prices, parking and confessions and so on lol.

Just be patient. It'll be three more years but he will have the stadium he wants.

I don't doubt that at all. I just have a hard time stomaching Stan valuing the leverage more than creating a secure feeling of ownership with the paying customers in STL. I guess he clearly feels the leverage is worth more,,, but I don't agree with that. Keep in mind, I don't live in LA or STL. Creating customer loyalty is undervalued in this if you're asking me.

 

[Thordaddy]

I hope you're not assigning those opinions to me. Stan's personal ties to St. Louis are what have me convinced that in spite of all the proverbial dots that connect to make a move to LA very feasible for the Rams, that it ultimately won't come to that. Kroenke's and Goodell's personal interests in keeping the NFL in St. Louis will be why the Rams stay there.

The only scenario I can come up with where the Rams are allowed to move is if Khan plans on moving the Jaguars to St. Louis. The Dome's already there, it's the franchise that should have been given to St. Louis via expansion, Khan gets to go "home" and Jacksonville can keep the name of colors of the Jaguars and St. Louis can have it's(well, relatively) own team. Not that the league cares too much about the Rams but I don't think they'd want to see the Rams horns disappear or lay dormant.

But that's such a fantastic scenario that there's no way all of that would transpire.

I still say that some team that has not even been seriously considered for LA winds up moving there. Rams and Jaguars make a lot of sense in a lot of ways but it'll be someone else. When it all boils down, I actually just want what's best for the Rams. I could be very wrong about LA being a better situation and I hope Stan can make St. Louis the force that he intends it to be. I'm just tired of the Rams being the red-headed stepchild.

Nah I was primarily addressing your contention that Shaw got an unmatchable deal out of St.L ( someone can always do better) that we'd bitten the bullet to get this team here, there were promises made to the Rams to get them to move here and that if they didn't live up to them that Kroenke wouldn't be getting out of the lease anyway.

So this carpetbagging meme Bernie the Hut is advancing is class warfare BS, how much money Kroenke HAS is irrelevant to the analysis of whether one side or the other is acting despicably here and I'm tired of listening to it. If he's such a crook we need rid of him no matter what his demands, this the NFL will force the crook to stay here crap just makes me want to hurt someone.
I agree that Khan would love to be here Ya know here's a slant ,Stan trades the Rams to Khan with a handsome difference ,he then moves to LA ,as long as we're talkin here,it wouldn't be the first time this team had been traded

 

[LesBaker]

The reason he is playing the game is to get land granted and some tax abatements IMO. The posturing is to lower his costs as much as possible leaving more cash flow for development of whatever site he ends up with.

Since I know that I'm maybe not as bothered by it as you might be. At this point though I'm with you and join you in the "ok enough let's get this wrapped up"

 

[Thordaddy]

The reason he is playing the game is to get land granted and some tax abatements IMO. The posturing is to lower his costs as much as possible leaving more cash flow for development of whatever site he ends up with.

Since I know that I'm maybe not as bothered by it as you might be. At this point though I'm with you and join you in the "ok enough let's get this wrapped up"

The reason he's doing what he's doing is because anyone in his position would do at least what he is. The objectives I would agree with ,but again unless the city is his favorite charity why shouldn't he do what anyone else would?
He's no villain,and ass hats like Bernie playing that card makes me respect them less not Stan,Bernie would probably be harder to deal with ,far worse THAT he thinks the worst of others is really a window to his soul. IMO

 

[RamFan503]

I don't care to watch the video. I think Bernie already used the carpet bagger analogy - no? Regardless, it is what it is. These are high profile negotiations. I don't think they are helped by the likes of ole Bern playing the class envy card like the small mind he is. I don't have to watch the video to know it is another shot at the rich guy. I also don't agree with the idea that Stan is hurting the franchise with his dealings. Stan bought a piece of property in LA. OK. It may have been with the intention to motivate MO into getting off their ass in negotiations. I haven't heard any movement by St Louis since the Rams won the case regarding stadium upgrades. If there has been no movement, would anyone expect Stan to just sit and wait? Tic Toc St Louis. Time waits for no one.

If St Louis wants to keep the team, they need to get moving on it. I think it is in everybody's interest to keep the team in St Louis - INCLUDING Stan Kroenke. But trying to wait out a guy like Stan is only going to piss him off. Twits like Bernie calling him out and souring the fan base isn't going to help either. IMO Stan has been the one stepping up for St Louis football all along. He tried to get an expansion team there, he bought in on the Rams, he bought the Rams instead of letting it go to Khan (for which I am very thankful), and he has written big checks to bring in real football people. St Louis now needs to get serious and figure out a way to either build a stadium that will be a huge boon to the region or offer the right incentives for Stan to build his own project.

 

[Thordaddy]

Or know that the next franchise may come at a much higher price and FWIW this franchise has given the city all it's home playoff games two SB appearances and a Lombardi when the last bunch went 27 years with none of that.
Stan is a good owner he's committed to winning and St.L,we need to act accordingly.

 

[LesBaker]

503 about Bernie.......he isn't getting a sniff from anyone on either side of this negotiation, they don't pay him any mind. Hell Demoff pays more attention to the message boards and spends more time with those fans than he does with Bernie, which is smart based on reading Bernie for years now.

As far as the land in LA......it was originally purchased and was going to be used for a Wal Mart according to one article I read. The citizens voted to kick Wal Mart out. So the land was useless to them they aren't in the business of doing anything but opening stores. So imagine whom they would sell it to


......anyone.....anyone.......Bueler?

Funny how Bernie isn't mentioning that eh........