Bears trade out of #1

[Elmgrovegnome]

It's a big year for Fields. He's entering his third season and would be in line for an extension if he excels.

“I’m not worried about contracts, I’m worried about wins,” he said.


Bears Owner: "I'm not paying you a big contract so I'm really glad you're not worried about it!"

That’s great.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

This is how I look at running QBs. Is there passing game at all impressive if they are contained in the pocket? If the answer is no, then the team has to cross its fingers that the guy never gets a serious knee injury.

I wasn’t impressed with Kyler at all in games that the Rams contained him inside the pocket.

Hurts didn’t look good in the playoffs when he was contained in the pocket. (I can’t recall which team it was against).

Lamar hasn’t done anything to make me think he could play well without being able to run.

So far I don’t see anything special about Fields potential to pass from the pocket.

But, is it likely that one of the top three QBs will be all that impressive as a pocket passer? I doubt it. But, if they traded Fields and drafted Young, they’d at least be able to push that big contract down the road five more years.

 

[So Ram]

I still stand by Steve Young being the best “complete” dual threat QB ever.

Closet Niner lover - lol

 

[Merlin]

This is how I look at running QBs. Is there passing game at all impressive if they are contained in the pocket? If the answer is no, then the team has to cross its fingers that the guy never gets a serious knee injury.

Yeah and if the QB has to rely on his legs to get positive yards in order to move the chains it is going to affect his longevity. Hits are going to pile up over the years. This is why I say the model for a mobile QB has always been Elway, who scrambled to buy time for his wideouts. Mahomes is the modern Elway. Both of them can beat you from the pocket or on the move. That is the goal.

So when I look at QBs if they cannot win from the pocket that is a problem. Because at some point you're gonna end up in a game vs a defense that can contain well with their front and then what happens. Elimination generally.

I cannot recall a QB winning a title who cannot win from the pocket. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but it's a problem if you can't do it. I mean even Russell Wilson, who won a title, could in that era of his career win from the pocket. The plan with him is still to contain him though of course, because he is short and it affects his ability to see the field. But looking at some of these smaller QBs teams are going with from college now starting with Murray I don't think it's ever going to happen for them. We will see though of course.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Yeah and if the QB has to rely on his legs to get positive yards in order to move the chains it is going to affect his longevity. Hits are going to pile up over the years. This is why I say the model for a mobile QB has always been Elway, who scrambled to buy time for his wideouts. Mahomes is the modern Elway. Both of them can beat you from the pocket or on the move. That is the goal.

So when I look at QBs if they cannot win from the pocket that is a problem. Because at some point you're gonna end up in a game vs a defense that can contain well with their front and then what happens. Elimination generally.

I cannot recall a QB winning a title who cannot win from the pocket. That's not to say it won't happen at some point, but it's a problem if you can't do it. I mean even Russell Wilson, who won a title, could in that era of his career win from the pocket. The plan with him is still to contain him though of course, because he is short and it affects his ability to see the field. But looking at some of these smaller QBs teams are going with from college now starting with Murray I don't think it's ever going to happen for them. We will see though of course.

A good example of how important playing from the pocket is, is when guts like Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco can win a SuperBowl, but more dynamic running QBs like Michael Vick or Randall Cunningham didn’t reach a Super Bowl.

 

[RamsSince1969]

NFL analyst: Bears' cap not an indication of big spending.


"A penny saved is a penny earned"

 

[Memphis Ram]

A good example of how important playing from the pocket is, is when guts like Trent Dilfer or Joe Flacco can win a SuperBowl, but more dynamic running QBs like Michael Vick or Randall Cunningham didn’t reach a Super Bowl.

Is it really? I'd like Vick's or Cunningham's chances with the Ravens. The Ravens had even a winning record with Tony Banks starting half the games the year Dilfer won.

And Cunningham's Vikings were 15-1 during the regular season when Gary Anderson missed a 30 something yard FG that would have sealed the game and sent them to the Super Bowl.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Is it really? I'd like Vick's or Cunningham's chances with the Ravens. The Ravens had even a winning record with Tony Banks starting half the games the year Dilfer won.

And Cunningham's Vikings were 15-1 during the regular season when Gary Anderson missed a 30 something yard FG that would have sealed the game and sent them to the Super Bowl.

Good defenses stop running QBs from running. Then they need to rely on the pass to win the game, which often is a weakness.

 

[Memphis Ram]

Good defenses stop running QBs from running. Then they need to rely on the pass to win the game, which often is a weakness.

Often. But Vick and Cunningham weren't any worse than Dilfer and Flacco as pocket passers. A argument could be made that Cunningham was clearly better than both of them.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Often. But Vick and Cunningham weren't any worse than Dilfer and Flacco as pocket passers. A argument could be made that Cunningham was clearly better than both of them.

I just randomly picked two average pocket passers to compare how even they won a SuperBowl. While a few QBs accepted as superior players to those didn’t reach one.

Wasn’t Cam Newton the only running QB to win a Super Bowl? Once he slowed and couldn’t run he couldn’t stick on a roster.

 

[fanotodd]

I just randomly picked two average pocket passers to compare how even they won a SuperBowl. While a few QBs accepted as superior players to those didn’t reach one.

Wasn’t Cam Newton the only running QB to win a Super Bowl? Once he slowed and couldn’t run he couldn’t stick on a roster.

Actually, he lost to the broncos and vmiller (MVP).
Steve Young was about the most mobile, “running QB” to have won a SB.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Actually, he lost to the broncos and vmiller (MVP).
Steve Young was about the most mobile, “running QB” to have won a SB.

Thanks

 

[dieterbrock]

When the Packers won the SB in 2010, Aaron Rodgers was the second leading rusher on the team and tied for the team lead in rushing touchdowns.
Elway was a running QB, Staubach in the day, Steve Young without question was a running QB. Not sure I've ever seen a distinction between a QB that extends plays on his feet, and a rushing QB??

 

[Tano]

When the Packers won the SB in 2010, Aaron Rodgers was the second leading rusher on the team and tied for the team lead in rushing touchdowns.
Elway was a running QB, Staubach in the day, Steve Young without question was a running QB. Not sure I've ever seen a distinction between a QB that extends plays on his feet, and a rushing QB??

My distinction between a QB that extends plays and a running QB are that running QBs have quite a few designed running plays for a QB each game. I would say on average 3 - 5 plays a game makes them a running QB.

Murray
Jackson
Hurts
Fields
Lance

meets that standard from what I have seen

And even Allen meets that standard but he could be a pocket QB who extends plays if he wanted to be (his arm is that good). I believe he should have fewer designed runs because he is going to get hurt the way he runs.

 

[muggmeister]

This is how I look at running QBs. Is there passing game at all impressive if they are contained in the pocket? If the answer is no, then the team has to cross its fingers that the guy never gets a serious knee injury.

I wasn’t impressed with Kyler at all in games that the Rams contained him inside the pocket.

Hurts didn’t look good in the playoffs when he was contained in the pocket. (I can’t recall which team it was against).

Lamar hasn’t done anything to make me think he could play well without being able to run.

So far I don’t see anything special about Fields potential to pass from the pocket.

But, is it likely that one of the top three QBs will be all that impressive as a pocket passer? I doubt it. But, if they traded Fields and drafted Young, they’d at least be able to push that big contract down the road five more years.

In 2019 Fields threw 41 Tds with 3 ints when he had the chance to play with NFL caliber WRs at Ohio St. With a better o-line I think he will develop into an even better version of Hurts, imho

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

In 2019 Fields threw 41 Tds with 3 ints when he had the chance to play with NFL caliber WRs at Ohio St. With a better o-line I think he will develop into an even better version of Hurts, imho

College and the NFL are two different beasts. In college Fields annually had one of the best Olines, runningbacks and 3-4 of the best receivers. Plus a great defense that got him the ball back.
Most of the teams Ohio State played weren’t even half as good as they were.

Good luck replicating that kind of dominance in the NFL.

A lot of impressive college QBs with impressive college stats, couldn’t make it in the NFL.

 

[Tano]

In 2019 Fields threw 41 Tds with 3 ints when he had the chance to play with NFL caliber WRs at Ohio St. With a better o-line I think he will develop into an even better version of Hurts, imho

Maybe - I just don't see it yet in him.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Sorry if a little off topic but all the posts about running QB's reminds me of our game against Randall Cuningham as a rookie. He ran on every 3rd down it seemed and kept drives alive, He was a bit of a trailblazer for these modern dual-threat QB's. Sure QB's had run and passed before him but he was the first really athletic dual-threat I remember, he infuriated me I was like how can they have running plays from the QB position, Tark and others were great improv scramblers but RC was like an RB. It was the early to mid 80's

 

[So Ram]

Sorry if a little off topic but all the posts about running QB's reminds me of our game against Randall Cuningham as a rookie. He ran on every 3rd down it seemed and kept drives alive, He was a bit of a trailblazer for these modern dual-threat QB's. Sure QB's had run and passed before him but he was the first really athletic dual-threat I remember, he infuriated me I was like how can they have running plays from the QB position, Tark and others were great improv scramblers but RC was like an RB. It was the early to mid 80's

Actually one of The First Black QB’s as well.Looking back at NFL History.
—In 1999 Randall was like The Leading Passer with the Vikings.

 

[Corbin]

@Elmgrovegnome


I really would be interested to know your definition of a running QB. Is this is it?

Dude what? Warren Moon was never a running QB, he had like 1700 rushing yards in his 16 year career and is ranked 45 in rushing yards all time? Russ is not more of a scrambler he has the third most rushing yards by a QB in the history of the league with 4966.

Any other QB that can run who has been successful? Here is a list of QB's with their place on the all time rushing and passing lists rank:


All-Time Rushing Rank/ All-Time Passing Rank

Russel Wilson 3/21
Cam Newton 2/46
Randall Cunnigham 4/53
Steve Young 6/42
Fran Tarkenton 7/14
Steve McNair 8/51
Aaron Rodgers 9/9
Donovan McNabb 10/27
John Elway 11/12
Josh Allen 13/126


So let me ask you this @Elmgrovegnome Do you consider Josh Allen a running QB yes or no?
Also, Do you consider Aaron Rodgers to be a running QB? yes or no?
or Tim Tebow? yes or no?



Ryan Day runs a Pro Style offense, and OSU has run a Pro Style offense for a while now. That alone doesn't mean QB's are going to be successful but Ryan Day spends an enormous amount of time developing his QB's that can run. It's always well worth studying your opponent as a Michigan fan to understand the why, who, what, where, how's.


RG3 didn't reach his 2nd contract because Mike Shannahan is a complete moron and kept him in that playoff game that completely fucked his leg and didn't protect his own player from himself.

Does a statue usually have a longer career than a QB who has the ability to scramble? Yeah, I'll give you that.





Fuck yeah it's going to be! The Lions got a head start on them and the culture, FO, and coaching staff is pretty solid finally.


Honestly, Fields' problem is working on staying in passing mode and not automatically switching to running it to make something happen. He's very capable with running and throwing but we know it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt if he runs as much as he has. The good news is he is starting to get a supporting cast to help him out and he'll most likely only have to move around or out the pocket now if need be and his WR's now can create separation.

Going to love to see Goff with a running game now! Fuck this is going to be interesting if the Lions can compete in the NFC now. Now that they built up their D it's going to be interesting to see how fast they can gel together.

Yep late round flyer is good for him. he had a good completion % which is highly important for a QB showing he has the talent and football IQ to make good decisions with the football, however his TD to INT ration is complete shit which makes me question him entirely. 13/8 last year? meh...

A running QB to me is one that relies heavily on running the ball to make the offense go. Hurts is a running QB. I don’t consider Josh Allen to be a running QB. I know he runs when plays break down but he is not a one read and run style of QB.

I considered Tarkenton and Wilson to be scramblers. Maybe Russ was more of a runner early on. My idea of a scrambler is a QB that moves out of the pocket while keeping his eyes down field with the preference to pass first if it is a designed pass play. Wilson reads more than one target

Ohio State has a very simplified Pro Style offense. I wouldn’t even call it that but you can. Day’s offense doesn’t work well with a pocket passer. He needs that running element for it to work.

I find it odd that you are making such a long post on the subject. Maybe I should have simplified it and just said that Fields sucks if he can’t run. So does Hurts and Kyler Murray. Cam, Vick, and Cunningham had the same problem. Lamar does too. Russ didn’t.

What do they all have in common? They are running QBs. It’s a big gamble. I know any QB can be injured at any time. But it’s less likely to happen if they stay in the pocket more and run less.

Guess who just posted a perfect QB rating this last weekend?


View: https://youtu.be/yhzaRzbCJ_8


That running quarterback is pretty good at passing isn’t he now he has support?

That crow is waiting for you!

I’ll get the Tabasco sauce for you! Lol