Aug-03 Camp Thread

[So Ram]

I don't think it's worth worrying about tells since every tendency is meticulously known anyway. Of course Goff will certainly throw from under center, but of course the Rams will run more from under center (hopefully), and all defenses will know this, still good luck trying to stop Gurley.

But the more important thing is that since Goff never did it in college the Rams should be working it opposite, the bulk of his live reps should be throwing from under center so he can work on his backpedal mechanics & timing the x-step drop with the route & release, etc., since live competition differs from drill speed. But maybe they are trying to get him confidence first, who knows.
Yep agree 100%. I don't get Fish seemingly repeating the same exact mistake here.

Offensive line is unique, you don't just plug in the 5 most talented individuals and expect that will be the best line. You need to build the best *unit*, five people that work best together because of skills that complement the guy next to you and ability to communicate. A huge part of that is doing so much repetition and time to jell that the communication almost becomes telepathic where you always know what the guy next to you is doing and his strengths/weaknesses. There's no time to think in football, you just do, and practice & preseason's entire goal is getting players trained up to that point. Fisher seems to think it's more some kind of tryout period instead. That might work with other units, but not OL.

With Hav's status unknown, the best practice should have been to keep the rest of the starting line intact and just move "next guy up" at RT, not move your starting guard over and create two spots now that have less time to jell. Also, given that this preseason is so crucial to GRob, it didn't make sense to suddenly move Saffold away from him to begin camp.

Oh well, I'm still hoping we will see Saffold start at guard in the first preseason game and the practice time is just allocating reps to get him up to speed just in case Saffold does end up having to move. There's not too big of a crucial difference of where the reps come, if Saffold is at tackle with the 1s or 2s, I just really didn't see the need to make the statement with the 1s and pull the support from GRob.

Anyway, I hope this doesn't come off as I'm freaking out over it, I'm not, I have no real problem with Wichmann or any other of the linemen and maybe it's just the Rams saw those guards were better than Saffold anyway so why not move him.

Dude Greg Tobinson needs to man up !! He needs to figure it out.
--What happens Saffold gets hurt ?? Like everyone thinks. Who goes in for him next to G. Rob ???
Reynilds proved himself,but Wichmann is a long time fixture.

 

[So Ram]

I've been at camp the last few days and the fact is, he has gotten beat a few times (GRob) and it hasn't all been roses. Quinn just flew right by him two times in a row and I know someone has pictures of it on a website somewhere. I also have pictures of GRob stone walling lots of our defenders. Overall I think he has been very good but he still has shown lapses. In the past it's the lapses that cost him. GRob is a beast when he is on. We're looking for more consistency at this point.

Did it look like he has changes his stance ?? He looks to me like he is getting down lower & looks mean at time.
Dude is huge though.

 

[OldSchool]

I've been at camp the last few days and the fact is, he has gotten beat a few times (GRob) and it hasn't all been roses. Quinn just flew right by him two times in a row and I know someone has pictures of it on a website somewhere. I also have pictures of GRob stone walling lots of our defenders. Overall I think he has been very good but he still has shown lapses. In the past it's the lapses that cost him. GRob is a beast when he is on. We're looking for more consistency at this point.

So he's doing good and getting beat some too? I don't know a LT in the league that will win every battle vs Quinn.

 

[Elmgrovegnome]

Couple of things that are bothering me after a week of TC. I've watched every video and have not seen Goff throw a pass once if he lines up under center. If he lines up under center, he hands it off. That's such a big tell to D's.
And here we go again with the musical chairs with the OL Fisher says Hav will be back before the start of the season. And then where will Saffold play? Pull Wichman and put him at RG? What about Brown? I swear, Boudreau doesn't seem to care about continuity.
I said it before and I''ll say it again. The first regular season game, the Rams will go with an OL that never lined up together in pre season. I understand you have to get a look at all your guys, but then again you have to get ready for the regular season and let the OL develop some continuity.

It makes sense to work Wichman and Brown at Guard as much as they can. Saffold gets hurt often enough, so let him fill in at tackle, even if he moves back to guard. He doesn't need the work there as much as the young guys.

I see it as the Rams are phasing Roger out. They have not been able to count on him being healthy, and last year he was not their best OG even before injury. Now with the young depth they're sorting things with Roger as a primary swing option which I'm fine with. Hopefully the guy has his best year, but either way the OL depth allows for an injury or two it and still shouldn't miss a beat.

I agree. Even if Saffold isn't being phased out now in time it will be Wichmans job at guard and he should get the work in while he can.

 

[Ramzee]

Did it look like he has changes his stance ?? He looks to me like he is getting down lower & looks mean at time.
Dude is huge though.

It does look like he is getting lower in his stance. Definitely plays with a mean streak at times.

So he's doing good and getting beat some too? I don't know a LT in the league that will win every battle vs Quinn.

When you walk out on the field and you only get one or two reps at something before you shuffle off to get one or two reps at something else, it just doesn't look good to get beat multiple times in all of your reps. Even if it's only two or three. A few sacks in a game won't look good on a stat sheet either. Regardless of who gets them.

Quinn is definitely a beast. Like an article recently said, iron sharpens iron. They will only both get better by practicing with each other. What it tells me is that, Quinn seems like he is back and GRob still needs to work on his consistency. In those moments where he gets beat, he often is slow to respond to the snap and fire out of his stance. Seemingly a mental issue.

 

[OldSchool]

It does look like he is getting lower in his stance. Definitely plays with a mean streak at times.


When you walk out on the field and you only get one or two reps at something before you shuffle off to get one or two reps at something else, it just doesn't look good to get beat multiple times in all of your reps. Even if it's only two or three. A few sacks in a game won't look good on a stat sheet either. Regardless of who gets them.

Quinn is definitely a beast. Like an article recently said, iron sharpens iron. They will only both get better by practicing with each other. What it tells me is that, Quinn seems like he is back and GRob still needs to work on his consistency. In those moments where he gets beat, he often is slow to respond to the snap and fire out of his stance. Seemingly a mental issue.

Sorry I just find it funny that coaches, scouts and media all say GRob is looking great and then all of a sudden after 4 days of camp we hear from a fan or two that he looks horrible. There is a major disconnect going on here. Not sure where it is and who's right and who's wrong it's just funny that it's happening. Especially when some of the criticism of GRob is so hyperbole laden it becomes questionable in the mind.

 

[Stony32]

Sorry I just find it funny that coaches, scouts and media all say GRob is looking great and then all of a sudden after 4 days of camp we hear from a fan or two that he looks horrible. There is a major disconnect going on here. Not sure where it is and who's right and who's wrong it's just funny that it's happening. Especially when some of the criticism of GRob is so hyperbole laden it becomes questionable in the mind.

Disregard the disconnect and accept what paid talent evaluators say.

Johnny Kerr: “If a coach starts listening to fans, he winds up sitting next to them.” There's a reason this is widely heeded by coaches. It is also good grounds for knowing that the paid evaluators don't read here and correctly don't give a rat's @$$ what we think.

 

[Ramzee]

Sorry I just find it funny that coaches, scouts and media all say GRob is looking great and then all of a sudden after 4 days of camp we hear from a fan or two that he looks horrible. There is a major disconnect going on here. Not sure where it is and who's right and who's wrong it's just funny that it's happening. Especially when some of the criticism of GRob is so hyperbole laden it becomes questionable in the mind.

I haven't read the thread so I don't know who is saying he looks horrible.

I don't think you're going to really come to any determination of how he is going to play in the regular season based off of a few early camp practices.

I just report facts. He stonewalls a guy, he stonewalls him. He gives up a sack, he gives up a sack. Personally I'm a big fan of his. I think the big story with GRob isn't, can he be good but rather, can he consistently be good. Cut out the mental lapses. I hope he shows improvement this year on that front. So far, still having lapses.

 

[Ramzee]

Disregard the disconnect and accept what paid talent evaluators say.

Johnny Kerr: “If a coach starts listening to fans, he winds up sitting next to them.” There's a reason this is widely heeded by coaches. It is also good grounds for knowing that the paid evaluators don't read here and correctly don't give a rat's @$$ what we think.

Me personally. I never cared much for listening to other people. As true as what you say is, I'd rather be there myself seeing it with my own eyes. I may not be working the job, like these coaches and other evaluators are but that doesn't mean I couldn't be and I have literally some of the best views in the house when it comes to seeing what is going on, literally the best equipment money can buy and a bit of past training in this field to boot. So no matter what is coming out of camp, from where or from who, I'm going to trust me over all else.

If only you could see what I can see. I'm hoping to be able to share it all with you soon. Rather than just tell you, I can actually show you. Can't beat that!

 

[1maGoh]

But if Robinson was stonewalling Quinn every time wouldn't the story be the opposite then? Quinn went out and won his battles. Someone has to lose to him. In camp that someone has to be our guy. It wouldn't look good if Quinn went out and got beat both times either. So who's more likely to win, even if Robinson improved drastically? Quinn. Quinn will win more of those battles and that means, by default, that the left tackle will lose them.

 

[WestCoastRam]

GRob stones guys, he loses battles... how many angels can dance on the head of a pin? We must know!!!!

 

[Ramzee]

But if Robinson was stonewalling Quinn every time wouldn't the story be the opposite then? Quinn went out and won his battles. Someone has to lose to him. In camp that someone has to be our guy. It wouldn't look good if Quinn went out and got beat both times either. So who's more likely to win, even if Robinson improved drastically? Quinn. Quinn will win more of those battles and that means, by default, that the left tackle will lose them.

The story is what the story is. Like you said, someone has to win the battles. If Quinn wins them, expect to hear people telling you he won them. In this case, he did. Many in fact. I have tons of pics to prove it. If anyone else tells you otherwise, they just weren't watching or something else is going on.

I was just using the two back to back plays as an example anyways. In that instance it was against Quinn. I'd say overall, I've watched GRob more than most of the other guys out on the field during TC so I've got a great body of work to reference. I'll show you what I mean later too. Still processing...

 

[Ramzee]

I 100% completely believe it's a mental issue. He definitely has the physical skillset to be as dominant as he wants to be. He's quick. He can move. He just starts too late sometimes. Late jumps kill you on an island. That's what has to be reduced.

I think at this point though, GRob is going to be what he is going to be. What you see out of him this year is what you can expect to see going forward. For better or worse.

 

[1maGoh]

The story is what the story is. Like you said, someone has to win the battles. If Quinn wins them, expect to hear people telling you he won them. In this case, he did. Many in fact. I have tons of pics to prove it. If anyone else tells you otherwise, they just weren't watching or something else is going on.

I was just using the two back to back plays as an example anyways. In that instance it was against Quinn. I'd say overall, I've watched GRob more than most of the other guys out on the field during TC so I've got a great body of work to reference. I'll show you what I mean later too. Still processing...

Quinn probably is winning most or almost all the battles. But there's a difference between being able to see who won and who lost, and being able to see how an individual is performing even in a loss. Losing to Quinn is par for the course for a majority of lineman in the NFL. You cannot accurately infer what Robinson's performance will be from the fact that he lost to Quinn.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, although I'd really love to, so I'll end with this. If one person says you're a horse, ignore it. If 10 people say you're a horse, get a saddle. Right now, most people are saying Robinson has improved, possibly a lot. 2 people, maybe, are saying he's not.

 

[RamBall]

Good I hope this turns into Drew Brees vs. Philip Rivers although I don't like Rivers...Don't know why, maybe because he always lost to Tom Brady.

My shoulder hurts everytime I see Rivers throw the ball.

 

[Roman Snow]

So he's doing good and getting beat some too? I don't know a LT in the league that will win every battle vs Quinn.

Maybe GRob just needs to grab Quinn and put him in a headlock, like the rest of the league.

 

[Ramzee]

Quinn probably is winning most or almost all the battles. But there's a difference between being able to see who won and who lost, and being able to see how an individual is performing even in a loss. Losing to Quinn is par for the course for a majority of lineman in the NFL. You cannot accurately infer what Robinson's performance will be from the fact that he lost to Quinn.

I'm not trying to get into an argument, although I'd really love to, so I'll end with this. If one person says you're a horse, ignore it. If 10 people say you're a horse, get a saddle. Right now, most people are saying Robinson has improved, possibly a lot. 2 people, maybe, are saying he's not.

I don't know what you would like to argue about honestly. I'm looking at photos of each play up close and personal. Literally, as we speak. Are you? I don't think you're going to argue anything against any pictures from camp. They are what they are.

When he gets beat. He gets beat. When he doesn't, he doesn't. Pretty much end of story. The entire story is in the pics. Hand placement, foot placement, all his technique. You can infer whatever you like. If you're trying to get into pissing matches over who's opinion is more important, I don't care to. I'm just here to state the facts, love them or hate them.

 

[HellRam]

That's what worry's me as well. You bring up a good point.

What's been forgotten about Robinson is even out of the big 3 of LT's (Robinson Mathews Lewan)
when he came out of college. Robinson had the slowest shuttle and cone drill time's out of the 3. And the 2nd fastest 40, Lewan was the quickest. What I'm saying is Robinson is quick for his size, but he is not necessarily a quick LT.

IMO G Rob would only have a elite career at Gaurd. I think he can be a average to above avergae LT, better at run support then pass. Obviously. He just doesn't have that quick twitch many elite LT's have.