Around the League: State of the 2022 Detroit Lions - Will the team break through?

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if you look back with Sullivan at center JG was ok, stayed in the pocket and went thru his progressions, all changed with when we went to Blythe, he's a turnstile, and Goff was forced to move left or right as there was no pocket, and JG is a quintessential pocket passer. If you have doubts about my claim about Blythe look at clips of Cam Akers rookie year, and also observe that Coach McVay made sure that Stafford was not exposed by Blythe, he's gone to KC, where he's a non starter.
train
But why is Blythe a backup? It's because Tutu.....errr.... Humphreys is there......
 

Merlin

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Humphreys needed an oil boy.
 

Tano

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if you look back with Sullivan at center JG was ok, stayed in the pocket and went thru his progressions, all changed with when we went to Blythe, he's a turnstile, and Goff was forced to move left or right as there was no pocket, and JG is a quintessential pocket passer. If you have doubts about my claim about Blythe look at clips of Cam Akers rookie year, and also observe that Coach McVay made sure that Stafford was not exposed by Blythe, he's gone to KC, where he's a non starter.
train
Oh I have no doubts to how bad Blythe was

I have been one of his biggest complainers about Blythe

And I agree with you wholeheartedly that Goff was a much much much better passer with Sullivan

But if Goff doesn't have a decent line, he does not have the skill set to overcome those pocket collapses (especially if it comes from inside rush). Actually to add to that, Goff is decent at stepping up into the pocket to avoid the outside rush if a pocket is there.

Too often in 2019 and 2020, when Blythe was the center, Goff almost never had a decent pocket to step into so McVay was forced to go to a short quick passing game. Even though Allen was crucified here in 2019, he was actually decent in protecting Goff. He was just a terrible run blocker that year. That's why Goff had really good stats in the first few games in 2019 when Allen was the center. They just didn't have any run game to speak of due to Allen's struggles. Thankfully he has gotten much better in that phase of the game. Once Allen got hurt, that is when Goff's passing struggles really began. I blame the majority of Goff's struggles on Blythe but I will also admit that Goff wasn't the best decision maker when the pocket did collapse. Too many fumbles and interceptions occurred when that happened.
 

Tano

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But why is Blythe a backup? It's because Tutu.....errr.... Humphreys is there......
I think he was going to be a back-up no matter what.

I wonder how he is going to do now that he is on Seattle.

Hopefully he will remain a turnstyle.

But it wouldn't surprise me if he became a capable guard due to all the experience he has acquired in his years in the league.

Some players do turn a corner with experience.
 

nighttrain

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Oh I have no doubts to how bad Blythe was

I have been one of his biggest complainers about Blythe

And I agree with you wholeheartedly that Goff was a much much much better passer with Sullivan

But if Goff doesn't have a decent line, he does not have the skill set to overcome those pocket collapses (especially if it comes from inside rush). Actually to add to that, Goff is decent at stepping up into the pocket to avoid the outside rush if a pocket is there.

Too often in 2019 and 2020, when Blythe was the center, Goff almost never had a decent pocket to step into so McVay was forced to go to a short quick passing game. Even though Allen was crucified here in 2019, he was actually decent in protecting Goff. He was just a terrible run blocker that year. That's why Goff had really good stats in the first few games in 2019 when Allen was the center. They just didn't have any run game to speak of due to Allen's struggles. Thankfully he has gotten much better in that phase of the game. Once Allen got hurt, that is when Goff's passing struggles really began. I blame the majority of Goff's struggles on Blythe but I will also admit that Goff wasn't the best decision maker when the pocket did collapse. Too many fumbles and interceptions occurred when that happened.
i can't think of one QB that would like to have Blythe at the Center position, none
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thirteen28

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i can't think of one QB that would like to have Blythe at the Center position, none
train

There's a reason he's gone, even with the switch in QBs. There was no way McVay was going to expose Stafford to Blythe's "protection" after what occurred the previous two years, irrespective of Goff's struggles with decision making under pressure. Stafford certainly would have done better than Goff with Blythe as his center, but he wouldn't have done as well as he did here in 2021 when he was taking snaps from Allen. I'm so glad now we didn't give up on Allen and glad that Allen didn't give up on himself. Maybe not an all-pro, but definitely an upgrade over the prior two years.
 

sloramfan

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"top 20-25???

name me 20. because i want to give my fellow ram fan wiggle room...

and i need a really good laff...

and i want this thread bumped next season...

so i can eat crow or gloat....

go rams

slo

ps for those of you that don't know i was really torn when the trade went down, but i knew staff was better, slightly i thought, and older i knew... so i thought it was a sideways move...

man was i wrong...

go rams

slo
 

Tano

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ps for those of you that don't know i was really torn when the trade went down, but i knew staff was better, slightly i thought, and older i knew... so i thought it was a sideways move...

man was i wrong...
Yeah so was I

After watching video of Stafford at Detroit, I could tell Stafford was a faster decision maker and a much better deep arm but I felt Goff was more accurate on the short to mid range throws. Still feel that way about Goff, but Stafford's decision making abilities and his ability to keep teams from covering the short passes with his deep throws is what got us a Super Bowl win especially on his play in the fourth quarter.
 

thirteen28

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Yeah so was I

After watching video of Stafford at Detroit, I could tell Stafford was a faster decision maker and a much better deep arm but I felt Goff was more accurate on the short to mid range throws. Still feel that way about Goff, but Stafford's decision making abilities and his ability to keep teams from covering the short passes with his deep throws is what got us a Super Bowl win especially on his play in the fourth quarter.

What I didn't realize about Stafford until this year is his total unflappability in pressure situations. Especially in the playoffs during those game winning drives, the look on Stafford's face just said "Pressure? Yeah, whatevs ...". And I think that confidence just radiated to his teammates.
 

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What I didn't realize about Stafford until this year is his total unflappability in pressure situations. Especially in the playoffs during those game winning drives, the look on Stafford's face just said "Pressure? Yeah, whatevs ...". And I think that confidence just radiated to his teammates.
He got it from me.... ~ Sam Bradford
 

LARAMSinFeb.

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"top 20-25???

name me 20. because i want to give my fellow ram fan wiggle room...
Yeah we all know how great Staff is, but it doesn't mean Goff is trash. There're not even 10 guys you can definitively put ahead of him. If Detroit can come up with a running game, Goff will probably be carving people up again.
 

hotanez

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Yeah we all know how great Staff is, but it doesn't mean Goff is trash. There're not even 10 guys you can definitively put ahead of him. If Detroit can come up with a running game, Goff will probably be carving people up again.
I could definitely put 10 guys ahead of him easy
Mahomes
Allen
Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Jackson
Brady
Rodgers
Herbert
Lawrence
But I see a lot of articles listing him in the 20s or below and that's just insane.
 

Tano

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I could definitely put 10 guys ahead of him easy
Mahomes
Allen
Wilson
Burrow
Stafford
Jackson
Brady
Rodgers
Herbert
Lawrence
But I see a lot of articles listing him in the 20s or below and that's just insane.
Lawrence is iffy because he hasn't really done anything yet

But the others okay except I feel Jackson is possibly overrated because if you can contain him he is a shitty pocket passer.

I have seen a few games where Buffalo contained Jackson in the pocket and he couldn't do a damn thing the entire game.
 

hotanez

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Lawrence is iffy because he hasn't really done anything yet

But the others okay except I feel Jackson is possibly overrated because if you can contain him he is a shitty pocket passer.

I have seen a few games where Buffalo contained Jackson in the pocket and he couldn't do a damn thing the entire game.
I understand your reasoning but we all agree that if you need to give Goff great Oline play and a good/great running attack to be a good QB, give that to Jackson and he's a great QB. Holding all things the same I wouldn't hesitate to take any of those 10 guys before Goff.
 

Tano

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I understand your reasoning but we all agree that if you need to give Goff great Oline play and a good/great running attack to be a good QB, give that to Jackson and he's a great QB. Holding all things the same I wouldn't hesitate to take any of those 10 guys before Goff.
I wouldn't say great OL play.

I would say good OL with a VERY GOOD CENTER/LEFT TACKLE and a good running game and Goff could be a good to very good QB

So the key imho is a very good center and very good left tackle which I would say maybe half the teams have.

I could be wrong but I think there are close to 16 centers/ left tackles that I would take over Allen and Noteboom. I appreciated Allen's play because it was so much better than Blythe but I still consider him an average center.

However, Noteboom could definitely surprise me.

And I will say there were 31 centers better than Blythe in 2019 and 2020 (that is how much I dislike Blythe as a center for the Rams)

But yeah I would still put Goff in the 11 to 20 range (a lot of ties)
 
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hotanez

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I wouldn't say great OL play.

I would say good OL with a VERY GOOD CENTER/LEFT TACKLE and a good running game and Goff could be a good to very good QB

So the key imho is a very good center and very good left tackle which I would say over half the teams have.

I could be wrong but I think there are close to 16 centers/ left tackles that I would take over Allen and Noteboom

However, Noteboom could definitely surprise me.

And I will say there were 31 centers better than Blythe in 2019 and 2020 (that is how much I dislike Blythe as a center for the Rams)

But yeah I would still put Goff in the 11 to 20 range (a lot of ties)
definitely thinking more around 11-15 for me I would still take any of those 10 guys before Goff. I just feel Goff's decision making under pressure is terrible and I'd guess McVay thought so too. Don't wish anything bad for him because he seems like a good guy but I'm glad we were able to upgrade at QB.
 

Tano

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I wouldn't say great OL play.

I would say good OL with a VERY GOOD CENTER/LEFT TACKLE and a good running game and Goff could be a good to very good QB

So the key imho is a very good center and very good left tackle which I would say maybe half the teams have.

I could be wrong but I think there are close to 16 centers/ left tackles that I would take over Allen and Noteboom. I appreciated Allen's play because it was so much better than Blythe but I still consider him an average center.

However, Noteboom could definitely surprise me.

And I will say there were 31 centers better than Blythe in 2019 and 2020 (that is how much I dislike Blythe as a center for the Rams)

But yeah I would still put Goff in the 11 to 20 range (a lot of ties)
Just to add - Detroit has an all-pro center and a very good left tackle with a rising star at RT.

This year will tell me if I am right or wrong about Goff as long as they stay relatively healthy on the OL and WRs
 

Tano

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definitely thinking more around 11-15 for me I would still take any of those 10 guys before Goff. I just feel Goff's decision making under pressure is terrible and I'd guess McVay thought so too. Don't wish anything bad for him because he seems like a good guy but I'm glad we were able to upgrade at QB.
Oh I agree with you 100% there other than maybe Jackson. Those Buffalo games really put a damper on how I feel about Jackson.

Lawrence has the talent so I would take him over Goff right now. But he still needs to prove to me that he is a for sure top 10 QB.

And yeah - Goff's decision making under pressure sucked.