Anyone grow up in an immigrant household?

[SWAdude]

Am I the only one totally confused with the motivation of this thread?

I work with a vast diversity of people who are pilots and we all worked equally as hard. Some had better timing than others due to national economics.

So what?

 

[Force16X]

Odd thread.

And while reading it, I keep hearing:

View: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RlNhD0oS5pk

this song was perfect for Thor : Ragnarok when Thor lands on the bridge.

 

[Loyal]

My paternal Grandmother immigrated with her parents/sibling in 1925 from England. The Great Depression hit a couple of years later and so I don't know if it was being an immigrant or a 1930's survivor, but my Grandmother was a food hoarder. Years after even when my Grandpa had died, she bought WAY too much food that had to be frozen. We had pallets of soda that had to be dumped after she died.
I always wondered if there was a starving time for her and she resolved to never be hungry again.

 

[Angry Ram]

Okay… I guess I’ll have to be more specific…

I grew up in a household that some would likely describe as wealthy. I, however, was not “given everything.” What I have, I’ve earned. The same can be said of my kids who, independent of my wife’s and my financial success, have worked hard to forge their own paths.

So, in summation.., don’t generalize other people.

I'm not talking about being given everything like say an inheritance, hard-work mentality, etc. That's all adulting. Obviously as a kid, you can't earn a living and being completely dependent so everything a kid gets is "given". But the whole point is that today's kids are given a lot more. I.e., hey, you're my kid here's a brand new Xbox at age 7 "just because".

As a kid, you as a wealthy member probably had a lot more of the things than first generation of immigrants in the 80s - early 2000s. And it's the smaller things like going to local events, having cable tv, etc. We did not, because that mindset our parents didn't have. Go watch any standup comic, they all have similar stories no matter where they're from. But the 2nd and 3rd generations are getting everything and is becoming more common.

For example, a local news reporter shared that she had a birthday party for her 2 year old. Which had a TACO BAR. At a 2-year olds birthday party. The best part of my bday parties was the birthday cake from Sam's Club. The small one. Again we weren't poor. 100% middle class.

Obviously I have all the luxuries today, I just think about all the 1st gen immigrants and their environment growing up vs. how the current gen gets so much more.

Am I the only one totally confused with the motivation of this thread?

I work with a vast diversity of people who are pilots and we all worked equally as hard. Some had better timing than others due to national economics.

So what?

Well if you didn't grow up in that environment, its hard to understand. And it has nothing to do with diversity or adult working life. It's about growing up, specifically 1st generation American-born kids from immigrant families in modern times. My parents worked their butts off, and gave me that mentality too, but I still wasn't given freebie fun things as a kid.

This is something I've noticed, that the kids today have so much more given to them for no reason, including the eventual offspring of the 1st gen, than we ever did. Parents pull their kids out DURING the school year to do fun stuff. What? That's just wild to me. My generation's parents couldn't even think it. Weddings were scheduled in the hot ass summer because of that. Ha.

My paternal Grandmother immigrated with her parents/sibling in 1925 from England. The Great Depression hit a couple of years later and so I don't know if it was being an immigrant or a 1930's survivor, but my Grandmother was a food hoarder. Years after even when my Grandpa had died, she bought WAY too much food that had to be frozen. We had pallets of soda that had to be dumped after she died.
I always wondered if there was a starving time for her and she resolved to never be hungry again.

So from that, you are 2nd generation, and subsequently if you have grandchildren that are 4th generation, who in their upbringing is vastly different than 1st gen immigrant kids because they have been established into the US. So by the time your grandchildren and my generation went to school together, it was vastly different childhood experiences. I.e...

Going to baseball games in the summer vs. Kumon

Staying in actual hotels vs. the Budget Inn

Going out of town to a waterpark vs. discount day at the local rinky dink skate world.

Buying a vhs tape vs. recording it when it came on tv (Jurassic Park lol)

I am fascinated by the early immigrants from the early 1900s, though. I couldn't even imagine what it would've been like.

 

[AvengerRam]

Sigh.

I'm not going to waste my time correcting more of your presumptions. Seems like you're just trying to pat yourself on the back.

My ancestors came to this country during the first half of the 20th Century. They had little when they came. Had they not immigrated, I would probably not be here today, as most of the ones who stayed behind were killed.

That's my story. You have your story. Let's not "weigh" them against each other, okay?

 

[Angry Ram]

Sigh.

I'm not going to waste my time correcting more of your presumptions. Seems like you're just trying to pat yourself on the back.

My ancestors came to this country during the first half of the 20th Century. They had little when they came. Had they not immigrated, I would probably not be here today, as most of the ones who stayed behind were killed.

That's my story. You have your story. Let's not "weigh" them against each other, okay?

You're taking this way more seriously than it was made out to be.

 

[AvengerRam]

You're taking this way more seriously than it was made out to be.

I can assure you that my blood pressure has not changed at any point during this discussion.

 

[thirteen28]

Depends on the year. If closer to the fall then yeah, you would be restarting. Early in the 50s or 60s? Nah, you probably were 2nd or 3rd generation and entrenched here.

Well, from my mom's perspective, I was first generation, although from my dad's perspective, I was at least 4th generation. I think in the end, because she married my dad, an American, she got assimilated pretty fast, more so because she came over before she was fully an adult. By the time she had kids, she was just going with the flow of the society she lived in.

 

[Selassie I]

Hey @Angry Ram

One of the things my son told me about his Indian girlfriends kinda goes along with what you dealt with.

He said that their Dads were always so demanding and strict with their schoolwork and time... whenever they did get a chance for a tiny bit of free time they would go apeshit wild. One of them had my son pick her up for school 1 hour earlier than he needed to leave so that they could spend some time together before school. I couldn't believe my son would get up earlier like that until he told me later what he was doing. That girl was so locked up at home that she wanted to rebel against it. My son had to find them a different place to park when it was brought to his attention that the big church parking lot they were "parking" in before school had cameras on almost every light pole. I still remind him about that shit. LOLOLOLOL

Her parents believed that she was a completely innocent angel. Please... she corrupted my innocent son.

 

[Riverumbbq]

I'm not talking about being given everything like say an inheritance, hard-work mentality, etc. That's all adulting. Obviously as a kid, you can't earn a living and being completely dependent so everything a kid gets is "given". But the whole point is that today's kids are given a lot more. I.e., hey, you're my kid here's a brand new Xbox at age 7 "just because".

I'm not going to go into detail about my early family days here as that would be repeating myself on an @Juggs thread from a year or two ago, although I will say this much ; I'm basically bred a pure WASP with American roots dating back to the 13 Colonies, mostly Scottish & German ancestry, ... over the generations my ancestral relatives have lived in fairly good times economically and also thru extreme hardship other times, I imagine for the most part how they treated their children was based on what they could afford as well as the prevailing values of the time, although 'spoiling' children with vacations, toys & trinkets was likely not as high on the agenda as was clothing, feeding and educating them. My own childhood wasn't much different, other than a bicycle which was mostly used to get to school, I also rarely received any of those 'things' you describe as what some other young kids today are granted by their parents. I was told if I wanted something, I'd need to work for it, and as a 15 year old in High School we had something called the 5-3 program which allowed kids to go to school for 5 hours and work part time for 3 hours, ... so I went out and got a job.
If you're seeing children doing & receiving things that you didn't have the opportunities for, some of that may have to do with parental guilt, as today those with the advantages of money may be partially making up for what they missed as children themselves. In many sectors, but certainly not all, we see better, more loving parenting, although that doesn't have to include 'things', it could just be how time spent and closeness with a child helps in their development.
The one thing I keep missing from your posts though is that while we live in a very diverse society where economic impact ranges between extreme wealth & deep poverty, that you only focus on what you didn't receive when comparing yourself to others, that many families live paycheck to paycheck, or someone is unemployed or perhaps in a single parent environment where money for 'extras' is truly hard to come by. Perhaps, like myself, you grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and were able to witness how much more your fellow schoolmates had in comparison ?
Are the values of immigrant families really all that different or do most parents want better for their children ? Does the extra emphasis on education in an Asian household create happier children & adults, or is it partially a cultural thing where the kids are expected to get well paying jobs in order to support their aging parents ? I don't know these answers.
jmo.

 

[Merlin]

I don't see anything wrong with the discussion. It will end up being taken into taboo overreactions and virtue signaling because people can't help themselves. But growing up I had three friends who were immigrants and all of them went to college and one of them is a doctor at USC. All of them had strict parents. All of them had curfews where they couldn't do the really fun shit the rest of us partook liberally in.

Way I see it, and it's just my opinion, is that the more conservative parents tend to do a better job steering their kids through the rough teen years where some of us are wired to go apeshit. I didn't have that type of parent, my mom was overrun by her boys and frankly didn't give a shit. Still love her and all that, but it is what it is. In fact I have some real horror stories compared to the common kids of my era, shit like losing our house, drugs, etc.

So I was more conservative than my parents with my own kids. What's funny though is that of the three one is a leftist in terms of her political leaning, one is a moderate like myself, and the other is a fucking quaker just about. Life is weird man. But I wish I had been stricter with my kids, and I am of the mind that had I done that they would have been better prepared. I tell them all the time "unfortunately you didn't arrive with a manual." So not a guy who gets all eaten up with regret or anything like that either, just a fact of how I look at it.

 

[Angry Ram]

Well, from my mom's perspective, I was first generation, although from my dad's perspective, I was at least 4th generation. I think in the end, because she married my dad, an American, she got assimilated pretty fast, more so because she came over before she was fully an adult. By the time she had kids, she was just going with the flow of the society she lived in.

Well you would've already been in an household w/ American roots already established in that case. The immigrants families I'm talking about have no prior connection the US at all, and their offspring that grew up. And it's a bit more difficult to explain w/ modern immigration vs the early 1900s.

Hey @Angry Ram

One of the things my son told me about his Indian girlfriends kinda goes along with what you dealt with.

He said that their Dads were always so demanding and strict with their schoolwork and time... whenever they did get a chance for a tiny bit of free time they would go apeshit wild. One of them had my son pick her up for school 1 hour earlier than he needed to leave so that they could spend some time together before school. I couldn't believe my son would get up earlier like that until he told me later what he was doing. That girl was so locked up at home that she wanted to rebel against it. My son had to find them a different place to park when it was brought to his attention that the big church parking lot they were "parking" in before school had cameras on almost every light pole. I still remind him about that shit. LOLOLOLOL

Her parents believed that she was a completely innocent angel. Please... she corrupted my innocent son.

Absolutely. I couldn't do many things on my own either.

I'm not going to go into detail about my early family days here as that would be repeating myself on an @Juggs thread from a year or two ago, although I will say this much ; I'm basically bred a pure WASP with American roots dating back to the 13 Colonies, mostly Scottish & German ancestry, ... over the generations my ancestral relatives have lived in fairly good times economically and also thru extreme hardship other times, I imagine for the most part how they treated their children was based on what they could afford as well as the prevailing values of the time, although 'spoiling' children with vacations, toys & trinkets was likely not as high on the agenda as was clothing, feeding and educating them. My own childhood wasn't much different, other than a bicycle which was mostly used to get to school, I also rarely received any of those 'things' you describe as what some other young kids today are granted by their parents. I was told if I wanted something, I'd need to work for it, and as a 15 year old in High School we had something called the 5-3 program which allowed kids to go to school for 5 hours and work part time for 3 hours, ... so I went out and got a job.

Holy moly. OK, I'll do my best to respond to each of these.

I had to google what "WASP" meant lol. Again tho, I'm not talking about immigrant kids growing up in the 1920s or during WWII or even Vietnam. And I'm also not talking about work ethic.

Here's what I'm trying to get, in the growth of the 80s and especially the 90s, both American rooted and immigrant families hit it big, but the latter still were not giving their kids all these things I'm seeing today. I think partly b/c of the immense pressure is b/c the parents gave up their entire homeland so their future generation, so anything less than perfection would be a failure. That's a huge part I and many of my community dealt with.

Again we weren't deprived. Or had it rough. It was uber strict.

If you're seeing children doing & receiving things that you didn't have the opportunities for, some of that may have to do with parental guilt, as today those with the advantages of money may be partially making up for what they missed as children themselves. In many sectors, but certainly not all, we see better, more loving parenting, although that doesn't have to include 'things', it could just be how time spent and closeness with a child helps in their development.

I saw it as a kid too. It was as simple as seeing in elemantry some kid getting a new deck of Pokemon card. It was like, what, 5 bucks a pack back then? And remember we all grew up in the same area, ~ = income, etc.

The one thing I keep missing from your posts though is that while we live in a very diverse society where economic impact ranges between extreme wealth & deep poverty, that you only focus on what you didn't receive when comparing yourself to others, that many families live paycheck to paycheck, or someone is unemployed or perhaps in a single parent environment where money for 'extras' is truly hard to come by. Perhaps, like myself, you grew up on the wrong side of the tracks and were able to witness how much more your fellow schoolmates had in comparison ?

Nope. See above. I can pick out the most poor in any state, but that's not what I'm trying to do. All in similar settings, families with emended US roots vs my experience in having to balance both insane expectations and trying to grapple what everything the US had to offer.

Are the values of immigrant families really all that different or do most parents want better for their children ? Does the extra emphasis on education in an Asian household create happier children & adults, or is it partially a cultural thing where the kids are expected to get well paying jobs in order to support their aging parents ? I don't know these answers.
jmo.

Its hard to understand if you aren't brought up in that environment. It's not just Asian. It's African and Latin countries too.

The general vibe my community got was "you have to be in the medical, legal, or engineering field. anything else is a failure" and everything as a kid through college was tunnel vision to one of those 3 options. The idea being that these things = future money and that immigrating was worth it. That's why as a kid, we didn't get to benefit as much as others, everything else being equal.

I'm so thankful I didn't have to do Kumon, but saw literally (not exaggerating) everyone be forced to do Kumon over the summer. Others got to go to baseball games. I helped my mom with chores waiting until we went to the next wedding. That's all I'm getting at. It's not as serious an "issue" (if you can even call it that). Was jw if anyone had something similar.

I don't see anything wrong with the discussion. It will end up being taken into taboo overreactions and virtue signaling because people can't help themselves. But growing up I had three friends who were immigrants and all of them went to college and one of them is a doctor at USC. All of them had strict parents. All of them had curfews where they couldn't do the really fun shit the rest of us partook liberally in.

Way I see it, and it's just my opinion, is that the more conservative parents tend to do a better job steering their kids through the rough teen years where some of us are wired to go apeshit. I didn't have that type of parent, my mom was overrun by her boys and frankly didn't give a shit. Still love her and all that, but it is what it is. In fact I have some real horror stories compared to the common kids of my era, shit like losing our house, drugs, etc.

So I was more conservative than my parents with my own kids. What's funny though is that of the three one is a leftist in terms of her political leaning, one is a moderate like myself, and the other is a fucking quaker just about. Life is weird man. But I wish I had been stricter with my kids, and I am of the mind that had I done that they would have been better prepared. I tell them all the time "unfortunately you didn't arrive with a manual." So not a guy who gets all eaten up with regret or anything like that either, just a fact of how I look at it.

Exactly. And I bet that doctor was if not forced, heavily influenced somewhere in their life to choose that field.