An analysis of the quarterback (not insane version)

[libertadrocks]

3. He's too technical at times. He has a lot of athletic ability but seems too mechanical and too cerebral sometimes. I don't want him to necessarily become a Farve like gunslinger, but wouldn't mind if he gets out of his comfort zone a little, move around a bit more and throw more on the run. I think the mechanical part of his game will improve this year, because he seems like a guy who needs to repeat a play multiple times to be really comfortable doing it. Since this is his first time that he's had the same coordinator/offense for 2 straight years, I think he'll look much more comfortable throwing the ball

Yep. This too.

I would like to see him improvise a bit more, but I'm not sure we'll ever see it. IMO it may not be in his nature. Although, being in the same offense could help, as he is a lot more comfortable with the schemes and concepts.

 

[fearsomefour]

I THINK it's fair to say that if everything goes how it should (OL, WR's and entire offense) play up to the talent level they have and Sam DOESN'T make some decent strides this year, we have a problem.
I personally think this year is Sam's big coming out party.

I dont know about that....at least early on. We have a staff now that at least gets the concept of putting players in spots to succeed, creating mismatches. But, there may very well be growing pains. Espcially with a rookie WR making reads at the line and being on the same page as the QB. I expect more explosive plays this year everywhere on offense, including the RBs. But, I dont expect the Rams to come out week one and start hanging 38 points on everyone. While it does make sense that the guys coming into their second year (Givens, Quick, Pead, Richardson) stand to have an easier go of it no one knows the chemistry that will be there with Bradford and Cook or Austin. Not being negative. Just saying it will take some time this season maybe.

 

[-X-]

I dont know about that....at least early on. We have a staff now that at least gets the concept of putting players in spots to succeed, creating mismatches. But, there may very well be growing pains. Espcially with a rookie WR making reads at the line and being on the same page as the QB. I expect more explosive plays this year everywhere on offense, including the RBs. But, I dont expect the Rams to come out week one and start hanging 38 points on everyone. While it does make sense that the guys coming into their second year (Givens, Quick, Pead, Richardson) stand to have an easier go of it no one knows the chemistry that will be there with Bradford and Cook or Austin. Not being negative. Just saying it will take some time this season maybe.

I agree with that. We all have visions of sugarplums dancing in our heads .... no, wait ... I mean, we all have visions of Austin and Cook tearing it up early and often, but there is going to be a breaking in period with these new guys I'm sure. I expect things will start out with a safe variety of plays initially, and then expand as the rapport develops between WR/QB.

 

[F. Mulder]

I think his pros and cons have been accurately described in this thread. I was happy to see him use his legs more last year to take potential losses and turn them into short or intermediate gains as well as picking up some key first downs. He definitely thinks pass first but when there is the chance to use your legs use them. He's improved on his pocket presence but that will always be something every QB strives to get better at. I personally think (for good or bad) he became too dependent on Danny A and hope his entire receiving options provide multiple options for him and he, in turn, uses them. He still tends to overthrow his deep ball (how many times have we seen other QBs slightly UNDERthrow a deep ball and the WR can adjust and get it or get a cheap PI call?). He also tends to throw the longer balls too much on the out-of-bounds part of the sideline. I agree a lot of this is caution on his part but also agree we started to see a more daring QB later in the year. The Buffalo game, which was cited, started to show him taking a few more risks.

He needs to have the hurry-up/no huddle available more often. I also think he can be a better improviser by biding his time and still being able to make a big play. I am a big Bradford supporter and think he will be the Rams QB for some time. I think the early part of the year will be a feeling out of the new receivers (and to a lesser degree reformed OL) for both Bradford and the coaches but I fully expect to see him take it to an upper level by the end of the season. I also want to see the Rams become HIS team, or at least on the offensive side of the ball.

 

[fearsomefour]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

I dont disagree. However it is easy to be different at Oklahoma when 7 out of 12 games the team your playing has no chance of stopping you based just on talent. I give Bradford credit for never having that typical 11 td 20 int season that most young QBs go through.

He hasnt had much reason to have faith in his receivers. I think him holding the ball too long is based on this. It has caused more sacks than he needed to take but has resulted in fewer picks Im sure. It will be interesting to see how he adapts with Givens (a guy he started to throw deep to even if he wasnt open) he can trust to try and make a play and esp Cook. I could see some Antonio Gates type of jump ball throws with Cook double covered this year.

The third point is a very important one. In his second year I was having fearful visions of him turning into Bulger before our eyes. He looked very unsettled and very unsure. He had some frustrating moments last year and he still has plays when his pocket awareness is not great, but, made progress last year. Finding a RB that is adept at picking up blitzers (this is the part of Jacksons game I think the Rams might miss the most) will be important.

If you remember when Shurmur was around they had Bradford so handcuffed it would hard for him to make many plays. Remember the Seattle game at the end of the season to win the division. Every pass was under 10 yards. Seattle was begging the Rams to throw deep and they just kept dinking and dunking. I dont think Sam has great accuracy deep, but, most guys dont. Overall, I am please with where Bradford is. He has never had a great season and never had a terrible one. Never having a terrible season speaks volumes to his ability and willingness to prepare despite being handcuffed by bad oline play and talent around him. I think this next season the Rams O will be ok to start the year and build up momentum. By 2014 I think Bradford will be on everyones top 10 list.

 

[bwdenverram]

I THINK it's fair to say that if everything goes how it should (OL, WR's and entire offense) play up to the talent level they have and Sam DOESN'T make some decent strides this year, we have a problem.
I personally think this year is Sam's big coming out party.

I dont know about that....at least early on. We have a staff now that at least gets the concept of putting players in spots to succeed, creating mismatches. But, there may very well be growing pains. Espcially with a rookie WR making reads at the line and being on the same page as the QB. I expect more explosive plays this year everywhere on offense, including the RBs. But, I dont expect the Rams to come out week one and start hanging 38 points on everyone. While it does make sense that the guys coming into their second year (Givens, Quick, Pead, Richardson) stand to have an easier go of it no one knows the chemistry that will be there with Bradford and Cook or Austin. Not being negative. Just saying it will take some time this season maybe.

Well, in all fairness, I didn't say anything about them coming out hanging 38 points on anyone. Out of the gate or otherwise. What I said was if he doesn't make decent strides this year I think we will have a problem.

I guess clarifying that a bit would help. If SB, with all the new weapons, improved line play (recall I said if everyone plays as they should) puts up the same types of numbers then I don't see how that can be viewed as progess. I'm a Braford supporter for sure, but at some point he does have to live up to the talent, no?

So let's say we do start off slow (not unexpected) by week 10, let's say, if he still not putting up better numbers, making better reads, doing the little things to show he's progressing, what then? I'm sure if we're winning it won't matter as much but if we're not, do we continue to blame it on young, new players? I'm not being negative either, just being realistic. The guy makes a lot of money. As I said, I personally think he makes a huge jump this year. But Sam has to be acountable just like evey other player (good situation or not).

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

Can I say how refreshing this is? I'm sorry but after posting for years in a forum where you can't have an intelligent conversation without someone peeing in the punchbowl when talking about the quarterback, it's nice to see that this type of rational discussion can take place. Legitimate debate about pros and cons that are observable and debatable. Sorry, carry on.

 

[-X-]

Can I say how refreshing this is? I'm sorry but after posting for years in a forum where you can't have an intelligent conversation without someone peeing in the punchbowl when talking about the quarterback, it's nice to see that this type of rational discussion can take place. Legitimate debate about pros and cons that are observable and debatable. Sorry, carry on.

lol. I posted there for years too, bro. Back in 2006 was when my account was created. Since then I've been banned 4 times. Which is great, because it inspired me to build this site as a place where people can go to actually HAVE a rational discussion. I still go over there to impose my will on the trolls, but it's only for fun. I like to get them insanely angry, and then walk away as they flop around in the au jus of despair and fury that I created from their rotting, troll carcasses.

See what happens when you watch a Charlie Sheen video in another thread? :lol:

 

[RamFan503]

Can I say how refreshing this is? I'm sorry but after posting for years in a forum where you can't have an intelligent conversation without someone peeing in the punchbowl when talking about the quarterback, it's nice to see that this type of rational discussion can take place. Legitimate debate about pros and cons that are observable and debatable. Sorry, carry on.

Probably THE biggest factor in why this site is the best forum out there. That and if it's Rams related, you will find it here.

 

[LesBaker]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

He has all the physical and mental tools of a HOF caliber pocket passer. However, up until this point, his performance has been underwhelming. I attribute his lack of spectacular play to a linty of things. Some are shortcomings I see in Bradford, others with external factors.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times[hilite]I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.[/hilite]
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

The external factors are probably fairly evident to all of us. There has been problems with the talent around him. Both along the line and at receiver. This had largely been corrected(hopefully) so it shouldnt be a huge issue going forward. The changing of OC and systems has also had a impact and set back his development a bit

#1 Can't be truer, Spags used to work with him everyday, and blow a horn or throw shit at him if he hadn't released the ball in under 2.5 seconds. Anyone else remember that? I thought it was odd that he took it upon himself (Spags) to do that with his QB. The first year offense handcuffed him also, IMO. I was not EVER a fan of Pat Shurmer. The Browns offense sucked just as bad with him over there.

Agree with your #2 wholeheartedly, it the one thing that Bradford has never had, a receiver that could WIN in tight coverage. Even Danny, was just too little to always win, even though he would fight. Pettis might be that guy now, until Quick is ready. Bailey's pretty good in getting the ball too.

#3 is all on the line. Every QB has problems when he gets drilled repeatedly, even Joe Montana used to. Kevin Greene got to him a couple times early, and we would win. Need time to go through progressions.

Everyone else has already brought up the long list of things that he can't control.

Excellent post and it echoes my feelings. IMO Schurmur did more harm than good. I know he gets lauded for helping Bradford earn ROTY and all that but it also ingrained into him to find the easy safe guy 3 yards away. For what it's worth PS had playcalling duties taken away by Holmgren and many of the teams players regressed and were less productive in his scheme.

I never liked that guy. He was a mistake.

Then Bradford went from that to having to make line calls when he was just figuring out how to read defenses. McDaniels, yeah thanks, I didn't like that guy either. Early on I was talking about how Bradford seemed to be looking at the rush to see if he had made the right call or was going to get hit or pressured. It was too much too soon and the team didn't have the OL or WR's for it anyway. And a lot of the pressure wasn't from lineman missing, they were doing what they were supposed to I bet, Bradford just made a wrong call. This was a mistake from the start.

 

[LesBaker]

I like to get them insanely angry, and then walk away as they flop around in the au jus of despair and fury that I created from their rotting, troll carcasses.

See what happens when you watch a Charlie Sheen video in another thread? :lol:

That was a nicely turned phrase.

 

[Selassie I]

I've also thought that Sam has been too cautious... interesting point that Spags may be to blame for that. I should add that his cautious play is also appreciated when the turnovers are low.


I think SJ's departure will result in Sam asserting himself as the outright leader of the offense. He may have held back in this department in the past because of SJ... I wish he hadn't , but I can understand it.... still don't agree with it though.


One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is Sam's high level of superstition. I cannot help but wonder if this might be hurting him in some weird way at times. Many athletes are superstitious , but I get the impression that Sam might be a little extreme with it.

 

[bwdenverram]

Can I say how refreshing this is? I'm sorry but after posting for years in a forum where you can't have an intelligent conversation without someone peeing in the punchbowl when talking about the quarterback, it's nice to see that this type of rational discussion can take place. Legitimate debate about pros and cons that are observable and debatable. Sorry, carry on.

I almost never post on the PD. I was reading this thread X started yesterday. Just the same Bradford highlight video he posted here. It was hilarious. 15 pages of these total tools (catfish and DZ I believe) that just went on and on. Not only was X destroying them, but they argue with every single person on the board. It's the main reason I can't or won't post there. Don't get me wrong, there is some really cool and considerate posters over there. But when you have 2-3 guys that just are complete morons, they really ruin a thread. Never happens here, nor would Paul let it. Which is why this place is the tits.

For the ROD creator :bowdown:

 

[-X-]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is Sam's high level of superstition. I cannot help but wonder if this might be hurting him in some weird way at times. Many athletes are superstitious , but I get the impression that Sam might be a little extreme with it.

Interesting. I never really thought about how that could be working against him.
By that same token, if he gets his mojo right, he could be completely unstoppable.

 

[-X-]

Which is why this place is the tits.

For the ROD creator :bowdown:

Thanks brotherman. I appreciate that - as do we all.

 

[PrometheusFaulk]

Can I say how refreshing this is? I'm sorry but after posting for years in a forum where you can't have an intelligent conversation without someone peeing in the punchbowl when talking about the quarterback, it's nice to see that this type of rational discussion can take place. Legitimate debate about pros and cons that are observable and debatable. Sorry, carry on.

I almost never post on the PD. I was reading this thread X started yesterday. Just the same Bradford highlight video he posted here. It was hilarious. 15 pages of these total tools (catfish and DZ I believe) that just went on and on. Not only was X destroying them, but they argue with every single person on the board. It's the main reason I can't or won't post there. Don't get me wrong, there is some really cool and considerate posters over there. But when you have 2-3 guys that just are complete morons, they really ruin a thread. Never happens here, nor would Paul let it. Which is why this place is the tits.

For the ROD creator :bowdown:

Indeed, thanks X first of all for creating such a great place where this kind of discussion can happen and then making me aware of it and inviting me to it.

YTMND.

 

[bwdenverram]

Which is why this place is the tits.

For the ROD creator :bowdown:

Thanks brotherman. I appreciate that - as do we all.

Very much deserved bro. And everyone who puts time and effort into this site. I'm sure it's not easy and probably often overlooked. BTW- Where they heck has Joey been? Haven't seen him post in forever.

 

[Selassie I]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned is Sam's high level of superstition. I cannot help but wonder if this might be hurting him in some weird way at times. Many athletes are superstitious , but I get the impression that Sam might be a little extreme with it.

Interesting. I never really thought about how that could be working against him.
By that same token, if he gets his mojo right, he could be completely unstoppable.

:crossed:

 

[Yamahopper]

I think Paul was pretty close to being spot on with his comments. The biggest thing that worries me about Bradford is that he sets guys up to get killed. Maybe that had to do with a lack of reciever talent not getting truly open and having to get rid of the ball? I think Sam is better then given credit for when getting out of the pocket. We just haven't saw it since rookie year. The runs he made last year were more by design. I think it is very important for Bradford to scramble more even if its just for three yards as long as he's not getting hit.

The biggest thing that worries me about Bradford is that he sets guys up to get killed. Maybe that had to do with a lack of receiver talent

Can you blame him with some of Bozo's he's had to work with?

 

[Ram Quixote]

I think Bradford is a bit of a enigma.

He has all the physical and mental tools of a HOF caliber pocket passer. However, up until this point, his performance has been underwhelming. I attribute his lack of spectacular play to a linty of things. Some are shortcomings I see in Bradford, others with external factors.

The problems I see in Bradford are mental.
-First, I think he is overly cautious with the ball. Dont get me wrong, I want a QB to make as few TOs as possible. However, at times[hilite]I think Bradford's caution retards the overall offense a bit. In order for the offense to be explosive, he has to take chances. IMO his cautiousness may have been engrained in him through Spags. He was different at OU.[/hilite]
-Second, and partially related to my first point, he hasnt had much faith in his receivers. I dont think he trust any of them could win one on one matchups except Danny(who was often injured) and Lloyd(who was here for a short time). QBs have to have faith in the receivers to make plays/prevent bad plays.
-Third, from time to time he shows skittishness in the pocket. This can be attributed to the sketchy o-line play, but when he has time he needs to calm down and go through his progressions.

The external factors are probably fairly evident to all of us. There has been problems with the talent around him. Both along the line and at receiver. This had largely been corrected(hopefully) so it shouldnt be a huge issue going forward. The changing of OC and systems has also had a impact and set back his development a bit

#1 Can't be truer, Spags used to work with him everyday, and blow a horn or throw shyte at him if he hadn't released the ball in under 2.5 seconds. Anyone else remember that? I thought it was odd that he took it upon himself (Spags) to do that with his QB. The first year offense handcuffed him also, IMO. I was not EVER a fan of Pat Shurmer. The Browns offense sucked just as bad with him over there.

Agree with your #2 wholeheartedly, it the one thing that Bradford has never had, a receiver that could WIN in tight coverage. Even Danny, was just too little to always win, even though he would fight. Pettis might be that guy now, until Quick is ready. Bailey's pretty good in getting the ball too.

#3 is all on the line. Every QB has problems when he gets drilled repeatedly, even Joe Montana used to. Kevin Greene got to him a couple times early, and we would win. Need time to go through progressions.

Everyone else has already brought up the long list of things that he can't control.

IMO, most of these symptoms are a product of learning a new system (x 3). Bradford talked about being comfortable last season, but then we also heard him in OTAs this past spring. I still contend that if Bradford had been in his second year in that offense, with that same roster, he'd have thrown for over 4000 yards. Even with the Oline problems.

Yes, he was thinking way too much, but he improved as the season progressed. We've already noted how different he appears in pressers and interviews. I don't know how much that's Jackson being gone or his confidence level with the offense, but no one's seen the Bradford we're going to see come September.