All of Bradford's throws against Denver

[-X-]

Anybody else notice on the first play, Pettis was wide open at the inside edge of the endzone Woulda actually been easier to zip a 8 yarder to him than the pass over the defenders to Cook. We got a TD and thats what i care about most, but was just an observations i hadnt seen discussed. Bradford was locked on Cook from the start and Cook drew two DB's with him. Tavon Austin also drew away a DB and drew a LB to him leaving Pettis with a nice "bubble" of free space in the end zone.

Seems Bradford was going to go to Cook no matter what on that play, but it seems like the shorter pass to a wide open Pettis who was in the same path woulda been easier and safer.

Just makin convo here. Love what Cook brings to the table and was still a great pass and catch.

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact too. I think pre-snap, Bradford saw a LB lined up over Cook and then saw single coverage post-snap, and figured it was an easy 6. Which it was. But man was Pettis wide open there too. With nobody on him. I don't know if that's a flaw, or just trust in the receiver so much that he didn't even need to see any other options.

 

[RamsFanCK]

Anybody else notice on the first play, Pettis was wide open at the inside edge of the endzone Woulda actually been easier to zip a 8 yarder to him than the pass over the defenders to Cook. We got a TD and thats what i care about most, but was just an observations i hadnt seen discussed. Bradford was locked on Cook from the start and Cook drew two DB's with him. Tavon Austin also drew away a DB and drew a LB to him leaving Pettis with a nice "bubble" of free space in the end zone.

Seems Bradford was going to go to Cook no matter what on that play, but it seems like the shorter pass to a wide open Pettis who was in the same path woulda been easier and safer.

Just makin convo here. Love what Cook brings to the table and was still a great pass and catch.

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact too. I think pre-snap, Bradford saw a LB lined up over Cook and then saw single coverage post-snap, and figured it was an easy 6. Which it was. But man was Pettis wide open there too. With nobody on him. I don't know if that's a flaw, or just trust in the receiver so much that he didn't even need to see any other options.

Said it before, I'll say it again lol...this is..IMO..Bradford's biggest weakness.

Sam has done that a few times...his biggest weakness in my eyes...there is like a 3rd and 7 where he hits Givens over the middle for a nice gain and a 1st...however Harley was running a little flat dump to the other side of the field and the LB did not react....that woulda been an EASY first down instead of an iffy one...but I am happy with the play however lol

 

[V3]

Here's what I saw on the misses:

1.) Sorry, I don't agree that Pettis slowed down. He was trying to find the ball in the air. You have to see it before you can catch it. That was purely Bradford overthrowing Pettis.

Are we talking about the double move? If so, both were at fault but Pettis shouldn't have turned his body and slowed down. He should have tracked it over the shoulder. It allowed the CB to recover and get back over the top when Pettis had him beat.

2.) There was some holding there but I think I saw others that were open. I don't think Bradford even bothered to look.

No reason to. Read it right. Pettis isolated against a safety with no help down the seam. Toss it to the back of the end-zone and let Pettis run it down. Pettis was grabbed because the safety knew he was beat.

Overall, I thought Bradford did okay but I still think there's plenty of room for improvement in terms of going through his progressions. It seems like he doesn't look at everyone.

That's simply not possible on the vast vast majority of the plays.

Typically, you want to read the defense pre-snap and have it in your head who the 2 best targets are. Post-snap read should confirm that notion or force you to go to Plan B. If neither are open, check down.

You have 3 to 4 seconds to throw. You don't have time to look at every WR to see if he'll open up...nor are most routes going to take that long to develop. You're usually going to have time to go through 2 or 3 progressions then check-down.

And you gotta keep in mind that route timing is important. Which is one limitation. If your 5th progression is running a 7 yard curl in...by the time you get to him, it's likely going to be too late to make that throw unless he's in a hole in the zone.

I've heard professionals talk about him not going through his reads. There are instances where he knows where he's going before the snap but that should have changed on that play after seeing how covered he was. Pettis is not the type of WR to go up and get a ball. You can say that he made the right decision before the snap but when there are open receivers and he's continually going to the covered guy on those misses, it sounds like an excuse to me.

 

[jrry32]

Here's what I saw on the misses:

1.) Sorry, I don't agree that Pettis slowed down. He was trying to find the ball in the air. You have to see it before you can catch it. That was purely Bradford overthrowing Pettis.

Are we talking about the double move? If so, both were at fault but Pettis shouldn't have turned his body and slowed down. He should have tracked it over the shoulder. It allowed the CB to recover and get back over the top when Pettis had him beat.

2.) There was some holding there but I think I saw others that were open. I don't think Bradford even bothered to look.

No reason to. Read it right. Pettis isolated against a safety with no help down the seam. Toss it to the back of the end-zone and let Pettis run it down. Pettis was grabbed because the safety knew he was beat.

Overall, I thought Bradford did okay but I still think there's plenty of room for improvement in terms of going through his progressions. It seems like he doesn't look at everyone.

That's simply not possible on the vast vast majority of the plays.

Typically, you want to read the defense pre-snap and have it in your head who the 2 best targets are. Post-snap read should confirm that notion or force you to go to Plan B. If neither are open, check down.

You have 3 to 4 seconds to throw. You don't have time to look at every WR to see if he'll open up...nor are most routes going to take that long to develop. You're usually going to have time to go through 2 or 3 progressions then check-down.

And you gotta keep in mind that route timing is important. Which is one limitation. If your 5th progression is running a 7 yard curl in...by the time you get to him, it's likely going to be too late to make that throw unless he's in a hole in the zone.

I've heard professionals talk about him not going through his reads. There are instances where he knows where he's going before the snap but that should have changed on that play after seeing how covered he was. Pettis is not the type of WR to go up and get a ball. You can say that he made the right decision before the snap but when there are open receivers and he's continually going to the covered guy on those misses, it sounds like an excuse to me.

Most of the "professionals" aren't real professionals and that's not just from me...that is from one of the actual real professionals. :lol:

Pettis doesn't have to be the type of WR to go up and get the ball if we're talking about the same play.

In fact...which play(s) are you talking about with Pettis?

A lot of the people who say "he didn't go through his reads" are saying that solely because they saw a WR open for a split second somewhere. That doesn't make it true.

Sam isn't perfect. There are definitely times where he misreads the defense or locks onto one player but on all three of the Pettis shots he took, he read it right.

 

[Zaphod]

That's simply not possible on the vast vast majority of the plays.

Typically, you want to read the defense pre-snap and have it in your head who the 2 best targets are. Post-snap read should confirm that notion or force you to go to Plan B. If neither are open, check down.

You have 3 to 4 seconds to throw. You don't have time to look at every WR to see if he'll open up...nor are most routes going to take that long to develop. You're usually going to have time to go through 2 or 3 progressions then check-down.

And you gotta keep in mind that route timing is important. Which is one limitation. If your 5th progression is running a 7 yard curl in...by the time you get to him, it's likely going to be too late to make that throw unless he's in a hole in the zone.

Awesome post ... so that's why the pre and post snap reads are so key, because they're the initial indicators of who's going to be open and how to prioritize your progression which of course is limited to timing of routes as well.

To me it's also why I've always felt that a good rushing attack can compliment an offense so much, because instead of just reacting to the defense's attack and exploiting their holes, you have the advantage of attacking the defense a bit and dictating to some degree how they have to react, at least at the time of the snap, if you have a real threat. And my point to that effect is that he may have become somewhat dependent on the rushing game with SJ, but also once they release the real beast and the real rushing game is in effect with the stunts, etc ... Sam may look better at his reads.

I've heard a lot about Sam staring down his receivers and I've always wondered if that same focus that allows him such accuracy may also be a detriment to his game? To me at the end of this season anyway, as he grows comfortable with the tremendous talent that they have now, things will be more natural and it will seem like a non factor. At least that's my prediction

 

[iced]

I have no problem with Cook going to Pettis in that situation.

I'd have way more faith in Cook coming down with the catch vs Pettis...I think it's more of a trust issue than play recognition

 

[moklerman]

I think there needs to be a more accurate term for what Bradford does because "staring down" his receivers can't be right considering how few interceptions he throws.

Re-watching the throws from the game, Pettis had a very off night IMO. Sam forced some things too but Pettis didn't look good at all to me.

 

[RamFan503]

Well done X!

Bradford and the O was on fire to start.

That second Pettis miss... He slowed down for some reason. I think Bradford nailed the throw.

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Agree totally. And I'm not sure why but Pettis is selling out way too early that the ball is coming his way. On two of those passes including the deep ball, he stops or slows just before the ball arrives. Without that, the ball is on target IMO. On the double move, he starts to turn around several steps before the endzone. It appears that if he'd just have continued the route, A) the defender wouldn't have caught up to him, and B) the throw would have been right on the money.

It seems that Pettis is playing tight. It's like he's either pressing too hard to keep that starting role or he is just not in sync.

As to the Gibson comparrison, I think Gibby was far more fluid and IMO was far better than many Rams fans give him credit. I'd take Gibby over Pettis in a heartbeat. Still I would consider Gibby possibly the fourth best receiver on this team. So why is Pettis starting? Good question. Sure hope it is like when Spags kept throwing Mardy in for punt returns before he cut him. Not that I want us to cut Pettis but MAYBE Fish is trying to see if he can step up or if it's time to move on.

 

[jrry32]

I think there needs to be a more accurate term for what Bradford does because "staring down" his receivers can't be right considering how few interceptions he throws.

Re-watching the throws from the game, Pettis had a very off night IMO. Sam forced some things too but Pettis didn't look good at all to me.

Yea, I wouldn't call it staring down either. That's something a bit different. I think he is too adamant on trying to get the ball to his first read sometimes.

 

[RamFan503]

Anybody else notice on the first play, Pettis was wide open at the inside edge of the endzone Woulda actually been easier to zip a 8 yarder to him than the pass over the defenders to Cook. We got a TD and thats what i care about most, but was just an observations i hadnt seen discussed. Bradford was locked on Cook from the start and Cook drew two DB's with him. Tavon Austin also drew away a DB and drew a LB to him leaving Pettis with a nice "bubble" of free space in the end zone.

Seems Bradford was going to go to Cook no matter what on that play, but it seems like the shorter pass to a wide open Pettis who was in the same path woulda been easier and safer.

Just makin convo here. Love what Cook brings to the table and was still a great pass and catch.

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact too. I think pre-snap, Bradford saw a LB lined up over Cook and then saw single coverage post-snap, and figured it was an easy 6. Which it was. But man was Pettis wide open there too. With nobody on him. I don't know if that's a flaw, or just trust in the receiver so much that he didn't even need to see any other options.

I gotta disagree here. Pettis is wide open because as soon as Sam lofts the ball, Pettis' man stops his chase. Also, Pettis is running toward traffic and the bigs are right in front of Sam waiting to bat the ball down. Throw high and make your 6'5" receiver go up and get it over the much shorter defender. A miss there is an incompletion on first down with almost no chance of a sack or INT. Throw that ball to Pettis and there is a good chance of the ball being batted (up or down) at the line and two defenders likely had a shot at breaking it up.

If this was DA we were talking about, Sam probably rifles it in low but again, let's face it, Pettis ain't Danny. And still, I think the better play was up over the top and Sam knew damn good and well when he saw the defensive allignment.

 

[RamFan503]

I think there needs to be a more accurate term for what Bradford does because "staring down" his receivers can't be right considering how few interceptions he throws.

Re-watching the throws from the game, Pettis had a very off night IMO. Sam forced some things too but Pettis didn't look good at all to me.

Yeah - you could say anything and I'd check out your post. That Sig has now beat out Montana's.

 

[albefree69]

RamFan503 thinking clearly:
Pettis is wide open because as soon as Sam lofts the ball, Pettis' man stops his chase. Also, Pettis is running toward traffic and the bigs are right in front of Sam waiting to bat the ball down. Throw high and make your 6'5" receiver go up and get it over the much shorter defender. A miss there is an incompletion on first down with almost no chance of a sack or INT. Throw that ball to Pettis and there is a good chance of the ball being batted (up or down) at the line and two defenders likely had a shot at breaking it up.

Cogent.

 

[lockdnram21]

Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

 

[bluecoconuts]

Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

Not a chance. Fisher and Snead won't even entertain the idea of replacing Bradford until we're done collecting on the bounty Washington gave us.

 

[albefree69]

lockdnram21 positing a radical change:
Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

I'm ambivalent about that proposal.

 

[jrry32]

Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

Tahj Boyd? Ew.

Anybody else notice on the first play, Pettis was wide open at the inside edge of the endzone Woulda actually been easier to zip a 8 yarder to him than the pass over the defenders to Cook. We got a TD and thats what i care about most, but was just an observations i hadnt seen discussed. Bradford was locked on Cook from the start and Cook drew two DB's with him. Tavon Austin also drew away a DB and drew a LB to him leaving Pettis with a nice "bubble" of free space in the end zone.

Seems Bradford was going to go to Cook no matter what on that play, but it seems like the shorter pass to a wide open Pettis who was in the same path woulda been easier and safer.

Just makin convo here. Love what Cook brings to the table and was still a great pass and catch.

Yeah, I noticed that after the fact too. I think pre-snap, Bradford saw a LB lined up over Cook and then saw single coverage post-snap, and figured it was an easy 6. Which it was. But man was Pettis wide open there too. With nobody on him. I don't know if that's a flaw, or just trust in the receiver so much that he didn't even need to see any other options.

I gotta disagree here. Pettis is wide open because as soon as Sam lofts the ball, Pettis' man stops his chase. Also, Pettis is running toward traffic and the bigs are right in front of Sam waiting to bat the ball down. Throw high and make your 6'5" receiver go up and get it over the much shorter defender. A miss there is an incompletion on first down with almost no chance of a sack or INT. Throw that ball to Pettis and there is a good chance of the ball being batted (up or down) at the line and two defenders likely had a shot at breaking it up.

If this was DA we were talking about, Sam probably rifles it in low but again, let's face it, Pettis ain't Danny. And still, I think the better play was up over the top and Sam knew damn good and well when he saw the defensive allignment.

This.

I thought the same thing until I saw the play again. Pettis's man peels off as soon as Sam throws the ball which gives the illusion that Pettis is wide open.

 

[RamFan503]

Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

And these two are locks to be better. :what:

I honestly don't see how you can watch Sam throw to his receivers when he has the slightest amount of time, and think that the odds are with you to find a better QB through the draft. I'm not saying don't draft a potential replacement if one is there or if you have a good shot at one, hell, a potential starter as your 2nd QB makes for great trade bait at minimum.

IMO - Bradford HAS been performing. Putting up Probowl #s? No. But when you consider the O-line, the fact that DA was by far the best WR on our team, the consistency at coaching, etc... Just what QB is going to put up Probowl numbers with that?

We can go along way with Sam. I personally think he will "perform" now that he has a few weapons. If the running game gets going, I think he will put up Probowl numbers too.

As far as I can see, unless Sam regresses, we would be far better served by shoring up other areas of our team to take away any ACTUAL weaknesses.

 

[-X-]

lockdnram21 positing a radical change:
Basically either bradford performs this year or we need to try and get boyd or Bridgewater

I'm ambivalent about that proposal.

I concur. :tophat: