After watching the Fisher Press Conference

[blackbart]

I have to say he made a strong case for why Keenum was left in and was very convincing that it was a mistake in the protocol and that no one wants that.

The guy is a smooth talker and can certainly handle the press even when they keep asking the same questions over and over.

I don't know if he can salvage his career with the Rams, the timing of the rebuild, the coaching changes every year and all the injuries may be his downfall. I guess I would not mind keeping him if the offense could get their shit together and just be average, meaning scoring 21-24 points a game.

Can it happen??

Will a new staff be any better?

Can they be any worse?

God I feel like this team takes days out of my life with all the frustration.

 

[Athos]

What exactly was this "case" he made?

 

[blackbart]

Fisher did not see Keenum on the ground himself, he was in the game situation preparing the next couple of plays. The safety observer did but he saw the trainer on the field talking to Keenum so he did not call the officials. The trainer spoke to Keenum who said he was alright, while the officials were marking off the penalty and then was told to get off the field. Keenumb was making adjustments at the LOS and seemed to be aware but if Fisher had seen it Keenum would have been out of the game.

He would not speculate what needs to be changed and several times said this process is evolving and all parties would need to come together to make adjustments.

 

[Rmfnlt]

All the coaches (HC included) are in the communications loop, I'd assume - no?

I wonder what Keenum sounded like as he was holding his helmet, writhing on the ground.

Think Jeff Fisher heard that?

BTW... I think I've read that he was concussed and will be evaluated throughout the week, no?

 

[RamsFan14]

All the coaches (HC included) are in the communications loop, I'd assume - no?

I wonder what Keenum sounded like as he was holding his helmet, writhing on the ground.

Think Jeff Fisher heard that?

BTW... I think I've read that he was concussed and will be evaluated throughout the week, no?

At first it was reported he did suffer a concussion, then it was reported that he did not have a concussion. Haven't heard anything after that, so the second report might be correct?! Not 100% sure.

And I can't tell if you're being serious or not pertaining to Fisher hearing Keenum... How is he supposed to hear him halfway through the field? The helmet communication is one way direction I believe, the coordinator tells the QB the play through the radio, but it can't work vice versa. So I don't believe the coaches could hear Keenum if he did sound confused.

The whole situation sounds like a mess. However, there IS supposed to a medical doctor who is SPECIALIZED to see these kinds of plays, and no disrespect but I think he failed to initially recognize a concussion like hit/symptoms. And the Rams trainer went out and talked to Keenum, so that's a story in itself. What did the trainer ask? Why did he come to the conclusion he did? Fisher's coaching on the sideline, it's not like he has access to a TV, where it might look more obvious to us. A trainer went out to talk to Keenum and there's a doctor whose supposed recognize this stuff and has the power to stop play in order to helped injured players. Not sure what happened with the doctor, and idk how people can just blame Fisher for other people not doing there jobs, even then I might argue the trainer thought Keenum was fine. Keenum made a throw to Welker that was semi high (but was a fine pass), then he fumbled on the next play that Robinson completely whiffed on the block. So though to say if he was feeling the symptoms once he was back in the huddle, for all we know he might have been 100% (highly highly doubtful, but honestly he might have been 90% once he was at the line making calls. It's subjective is what I'm trying to go with). Concussions are a story in itself, different side effects and different ways people react to them. Again, idk how Fisher can be completely responsible for all this shenanigans.

 

[Rmfnlt]

At first it was reported he did suffer a concussion, then it was reported that he did not have a concussion. Haven't heard anything after that, so the second report might be correct?! Not 100% sure.

Yeah... lots of differing reports. I think the picture will become clearer as the week goes along... it's only Tuesday. But, I can't believe the NFL is not monitoring this situation very closely and, if there is a hint of lingering effects, Keenum will not be allowed to play by the league.

And I can't tell if you're being serious or not pertaining to Fisher hearing Keenum... How is he supposed to hear him halfway through the field? The helmet communication is one way direction I believe, the coordinator tells the QB the play through the radio, but it can't work vice versa. So I don't believe the coaches could hear Keenum if he did sound confused.

I did not know that the communication is one way... are you sure of that? If true, strike my wonderment.

even then I might argue the trainer thought Keenum was fine.

I dunno... I'm guessing the trainer had to have seen the impact (and subsequent struggles to get to his feet) or he wouldn't have come onto the field.
So, he says "Case, you OK?" and Keenum says "yeah, I'm fine" and the trainer just leaves it at that (after what he must have seen)?
I just dunno... the trainer is definitely among those who should be questioned on how this was handled.

idk how Fisher can be completely responsible

I'm not saying he is completely responsible... he's not responsible for the officials... he's not responsible for the ATC...

But he is responsible for the well being of his players. When the trainer ran onto the field, that's a sign to Fisher that something is wrong and - IMHO - he should investigate it further (like go see the player and trainer). Did he do that? I don't recall him doing it... play was allowed to resume. I think Fisher failed his player there.

 

[blackbart]

Keenum is in the concussion protocol this week whatever that means, he was feeling better yesterday morning and watched film. We'll see what happens today and if he is participating.

Everyone has a job to do during the game and evidently Fisher did not see the hit, nor did the Ravens play it back on the big screen so that was out of his control. He fully admitted the system had somewhat f a breakdown and that all parties will be involved in trying to fix it.

In my mind the ATC blew it they should have stopped the game and had Keenum come out, that is their sole reason for being there.

 

[BadCompany]

The whole point of having an independent doctor is so that coaches and trainers don't have to make that call. Or at the very least be relied on to make that call. Because obviously there is a conflict of interest when you're dealing with your own players. If Fisher left him in even if he saw the play then I would say that's unfortunate, but in keeping in line with a coach's general philosophy to win at (nearly) all costs. I don't agree with it, but it's not my job on the line, so I understand the mentality. The trainer deserves a little more blame in my opinion, as it's his job to keep these guys healthy, but again, he's still part of the team, he may have a personal relationship with the player in question that could cloud his judgement, and he is, at the end of the day, just a trainer. Trained to recognize a concussion perhaps, but not the expert.

The real blame lies with this independent doctor who did nothing. His only job is to watch for plays just like Keenum's. That's his only job. Keenum may not have suffered a concussion, he may in fact have been fine, but this doctor's ONLY job is to watch for player who get hit in the head, and pull them out if they show even the slightest sign of a brain injury. Keenum got hit in the head, and showed signs of a brain injury, and he was inexplicably left in there by the so-called doctor. Whoever it is should be fired, because he failed miserably.

 

[Alan]

Of course I didn't see the game or the play but having trouble getting up doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a concussion. Just a thought.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Of course I didn't see the game or the play but having trouble getting up doesn't necessarily have anything to do with a concussion. Just a thought.

I know... but, unlike Rams fans who have to endure watching them lately, Keenum didn't have anything to drink.

 

[RamsFan14]

I'm not saying he is completely responsible... he's not responsible for the officials... he's not responsible for the ATC...

But he is responsible for the well being of his players. When the trainer ran onto the field, that's a sign to Fisher that something is wrong and - IMHO - he should investigate it further (like go see the player and trainer). Did he do that? I don't recall him doing it... play was allowed to resume. I think Fisher failed his player there.

Everything you said makes sense and is reasonable but I have to disagree with the failing part. Should he have investigated? Idk, he didn't see how bad the hit was so how does he know of the severity of the injury? If he did see the hit, maybe he would have talked to Keenum, maybe he would have taken him out of the game, or maybe he'd leave him in. We don't know, it's all speculation at this point. Fisher claims he didn't see the hit, so that's what I'm going off of. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he has to know everything going on every second of every game, we are all human. He's the head coach who has to about a variety of things in the game, and yes to a degree injuries. However the trainer had a job to do, ppl can argue if he did it or not, but that's on the trainer and the ATC to look into these situations. ATC and the trainers have a specific job to do pertaining to injuries, I feel like it's safe to say ATC missed the ball on that hit. The trainer? Doesn't look to good for him honestly but maybe he asked the right questions and maybe Keenum passed with flying colors (again, maybe lol). Fisher? I mean, if he didn't see the hit how does he know how serious he's hurt? He's the head coach, has a bunch of things to worry about, including injuries yes you are right. But for someone who's not meant to be looking out for these kinds of stuff, I don't blame him or hold him responsible for what happened IF he missed the big hit. He's probably focusing on many scenarios on offense, eyes can be downfield reading coverage, w/e. But you do have good points, just my two cents lol

 

[junkman]

...then he fumbled on the next play that Robinson completely whiffed on the block

I've watched that play too many times. Imho, Robinson's set looked bad mostly because we can see where Keenum was standing. Keenum was set a full 10 yards behind the LoS and bounced on that stationary spot three times before getting hit. Robinson actually got a pretty good push on Upshaw moving him to 11 yards beyond the LoS, but he reached back to barely get a hand on the ball (I think?) and got Keenum's back leg. It's not like Keenum was crushed which is what would have happened with a stationary QB and a LT whiff. Asking a LT to push a speed rusher much beyond 10 yards is a lot to ask. Keenum needed to step up into the nicely formed pocket (5 yards of pocket in front of him) and have better ball security (ball in front of chest, not just dangling there).

Robinson flipping his hips to the rusher (a tad late, but 5 yds deep which is about right)

Robinson gets both hands on Upshaw to push him past the pocket

Bad ball security by Keenum, that's not where your HS coach told you to hold the ball

Keenum still standing in the same spot as Upshaw flies by from the force of Robinson's push, barely gets him

 

[RamFan503]

Think Jeff Fisher heard that?

No. I'm pretty sure that the communication is one way and even at that, the plays are not coming from Fish's lips. I could be wrong on that but I would be surprised if with all that goes on in a game, that Fisher has his QB talking to him on top of his coordinator and others on the sideline.

 

[junkman]

As a comparison point, check out this old thread with Payton Manning taking the drop, and Ryan Clady holding onto Robert Quinn (not called).
http://www.ramsondemand.com/threads...no-longer-understand-offensive-holding.32479/

It shows a few interesting things

1. Payton Manning is standing in the right spot, 7 yards deep after stepping up. If that's where Keenum was standing, it would be a non issue.
2. Clady has his arms around Quinn's neck. At least Robinson didn't do anything like that. Robinson's technique was clean.

 

[Rmfnlt]

Everything you said makes sense and is reasonable but I have to disagree with the failing part. Should he have investigated? Idk, he didn't see how bad the hit was so how does he know of the severity of the injury? If he did see the hit, maybe he would have talked to Keenum, maybe he would have taken him out of the game, or maybe he'd leave him in. We don't know, it's all speculation at this point. Fisher claims he didn't see the hit, so that's what I'm going off of. Just because he's the coach doesn't mean he has to know everything going on every second of every game, we are all human. He's the head coach who has to about a variety of things in the game, and yes to a degree injuries. However the trainer had a job to do, ppl can argue if he did it or not, but that's on the trainer and the ATC to look into these situations. ATC and the trainers have a specific job to do pertaining to injuries, I feel like it's safe to say ATC missed the ball on that hit. The trainer? Doesn't look to good for him honestly but maybe he asked the right questions and maybe Keenum passed with flying colors (again, maybe lol). Fisher? I mean, if he didn't see the hit how does he know how serious he's hurt? He's the head coach, has a bunch of things to worry about, including injuries yes you are right. But for someone who's not meant to be looking out for these kinds of stuff, I don't blame him or hold him responsible for what happened IF he missed the big hit. He's probably focusing on many scenarios on offense, eyes can be downfield reading coverage, w/e. But you do have good points, just my two cents lol

Thanks... one last thought... and, this is just if I were the HC.

Any time my trainer goes out to check on one of my players, I'm right out there with him.

I have seen times where the HC does not go out, but they seem few and far between... and (guess here) probably when the coach saw the injury and knew it wasn't serious in nature. If I'm the head coach and didn't see the injury, I'd be assuming the worst and be out there with that trainer.

Just me... BTW, no NFL team has ever called me to be their head coach