A Michael Hoecht appreciation post

[Londoner]

I am now seeing the LA sign.

That’s what I thought it was, too.

 

[rdlkgliders]

I think Young can develop a lot. You can't teach speed but you can work on moves, counters, etc. I don't know what that upside may be..but even so he's going develop quite a bit.

However, as as has been discussed a 2nd edge is needed. Mathis has most talent of all the others but he's not getting playing time ... not sure if it's playbook or he's not looking good enough in practice. Either way, Rams need to sign a vet edge ... Burns is my fav but it doesn't have to be him

They would make a nice duo. Hard to believe BY had similar statistical production

Byron Young 61 tackles 8 Sacks 8 TFL 19 QB Hits
Brian Burns 50 Tackles 8 sacks 16 TFL 18 QB Hits

 

[dang]

The look on the Whiners fans faces in the background is priceless!


View attachment 63705

Whiners gonna whine!!!

 

[dang]

They would make a nice duo. Hard to believe BY had similar statistical production

Byron Young 61 tackles 8 Sacks 8 TFL 19 QB Hits
Brian Burns 50 Tackles 8 sacks 16 TFL 18 QB Hits

Stats aren’t everything but Not impressed with Burns stats. Did he play all 17 games? I think Id like 2 FAs for the $$$ Burns will likely command ($18-20m/yr??).

 

[Psycho_X]

Stats aren’t everything but Not impressed with Burns stats. Did he play all 17 games? I think Id like 2 FAs for the $$$ Burns will likely command ($18-20m/yr??).

He didn't miss any games but he fought through a bum ankle for a while and I think had an elbow injury at one point. No idea how severe either was just remember him leaving a game or two before it was finished due to them. I would consider him right on the edge of very good to elite but not top 10 worthy yet. I would not be upset if we signed him.

Hoecht I would absolutely tender as a RFA this offseason. He is a good player that every team needs for depth and rotation and over two seasons has steadily improved in a completely new position. But I would still look for a starting stud edge player to replace him as starter.

 

[dang]

He didn't miss any games but he fought through a bum ankle for a while and I think had an elbow injury at one point. No idea how severe either was just remember him leaving a game or two before it was finished due to them. I would consider him right on the edge of very good to elite but not top 10 worthy yet. I would not be upset if we signed him.

Hoecht I would absolutely tender as a RFA this offseason. He is a good player that every team needs for depth and rotation and over two seasons has steadily improved in a completely new position. But I would still look for a starting stud edge player to replace him as starter.

I’d love Burns but probably not for $20m/year. We’ve got other needs that need to be addressed with our cap space.

 

[InfiniteRam]

Six sacks on the year.. a lot of heart and hustle.

I don't know if he'll be with the Rams next year, but I've enjoyed his story and the fact that a guy who just obviously loves to play football found a way to a multi-million dollar contract. I'm talking 2-years, 6 million.. or something like that. But for a UDFA? Not bad!!!

We've let too many of this type of player go. Ebukam, SJD, Fox, and more.

 

[JimY53]

They would make a nice duo. Hard to believe BY had similar statistical production

Byron Young 61 tackles 8 Sacks 8 TFL 19 QB Hits
Brian Burns 50 Tackles 8 sacks 16 TFL 18 QB Hits

It's true, production in terms of numbers ... and you didn't include pressures .. but that only proves your point more Young has more.

Young just needs a little more time to polish his skills. He's going to be really good, Pro Bowl-level IMO. A few too many mistakes this year but we al expected that. He needs to go to that Chuck Smith school of pass rushers ... where even elite NFL players go in the offseason to get better, learn new things.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Six sacks on the year.. a lot of heart and hustle.

I don't know if he'll be with the Rams next year, but I've enjoyed his story and the fact that a guy who just obviously loves to play football found a way to a multi-million dollar contract. I'm talking 2-years, 6 million.. or something like that. But for a UDFA? Not bad!!!

I believe Hoecht is a restricted free agent.

 

[rdlkgliders]

Stats aren’t everything but Not impressed with Burns stats. Did he play all 17 games? I think Id like 2 FAs for the $$$ Burns will likely command ($18-20m/yr??).

yes indeed that's why I added they had "similar statistical production"

It's true, production in terms of numbers ... and you didn't include pressures .. but that only proves your point more Young has more.

Young just needs a little more time to polish his skills. He's going to be really good, Pro Bowl-level IMO. A few too many mistakes this year but we al expected that. He needs to go to that Chuck Smith school of pass rushers ... where even elite NFL players go in the offseason to get better, learn new things.

Here is a more complete comparison Statistically like I said in the OP. Stats are fun to digest but only part of the equation albeit a very useful part

Big difference in Hurries that favors BY too

They are the same age as well

Byron Young

	Games	Pass Coverage	Pass Rush	Tackles
Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
2023	25	LAR	OLB	0	17	16	0	17	13	76.5%	76	5.8	4.5	0	84.4	1.8	-12	88	51	10	11	8.0	30	61	8	11.6%

Brian Burns

	Age	Team	Pos
					G	GS	INT	TGT	CMP	CMP %	YDS	YDS CMP	YDS TGT	TD	RAT	DADOT	AIR	YAC	BLITZ	HRRY	QBKD	SK	PRSS	COMB	MTKL	MTKL%
2023	25	CAR	OLB	0	16	16	0	15	12	80.0%	70	5.8	4.7	0	86.1	1.4	31	39	35	2	11	8.0	21	50	4	7.4%

 

[JimY53]

Stats are fun to digest but only part of the equation albeit a very useful part

Indeed. It's not everything but they are important. Eye test and so on.

But if a star who used to hit .300 is batting .280 and a young guy is also batting .280 there is value in that comparison.

And I LIKE Burns. But he didn't have a great year. Based on the eye test, skill set, etc. I'd take Burns but the facts are the facts, they both hit .280

 

[rdlkgliders]

Indeed. It's not everything but they are important. Eye test and so on.

But if a star who used to hit .300 is batting .280 and a young guy is also batting .280 there is value in that comparison.

And I LIKE Burns. But he didn't have a great year. Based on the eye test, skill set, etc. I'd take Burns but the facts are the facts, they both hit .280

Pretty much the way I see it too, Burns is a very consistent player in terms of his "Stats" 7.5 low sacks 12.5 high I think he may well be overpriced but we know the Rams like him. Josh Allen who will probably not be available had a monster year and similar age and I know I am in the minority but at the right price I could see Chase Young benefitting ala Fowler or Floyd in this D with AD. You have to love that we are 10 - 7 with lots of resources and assets going into 24'

 

[dang]

yes indeed that's why I added they had "similar statistical production"



Here is a more complete comparison Statistically like I said in the OP. Stats are fun to digest but only part of the equation albeit a very useful part

Big difference in Hurries that favors BY too

They are the same age as well

Byron Young

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Int	Tgt	Cmp	Cmp%	Yds	Yds/Cmp	Yds/Tgt	TD	Rat	DADOT	Air	YAC	Bltz	Hrry	QBKD	Sk	Prss	Comb	MTkl	MTkl%
	Games	Pass Coverage	Pass Rush	Tackles
2023	25	LAR	OLB	0	17	16	0	17	13	76.5%	76	5.8	4.5	0	84.4	1.8	-12	88	51	10	11	8.0	30	61	8	11.6%

Brian Burns

	Age	Team	Pos
					G	GS	INT	TGT	CMP	CMP %	YDS	YDS CMP	YDS TGT	TD	RAT	DADOT	AIR	YAC	BLITZ	HRRY	QBKD	SK	PRSS	COMB	MTKL	MTKL%
2023	25	CAR	OLB	0	16	16	0	15	12	80.0%	70	5.8	4.7	0	86.1	1.4	31	39	35	2	11	8.0	21	50	4	7.4%

Thx. Injuries are always in the equation but something in my mind says Burns is not our guy for next year. Interesting They are same age. That is a surprise.

 

[JimY53]

Pretty much the way I see it too, Burns is a very consistent player in terms of his "Stats" 7.5 low sacks 12.5 high I think he may well be overpriced but we know the Rams like him. Josh Allen who will probably not be available had a monster year and similar age and I know I am in the minority but at the right price I could see Chase Young benefitting ala Fowler or Floyd in this D with AD. You have to love that we are 10 - 7 with lots of resources and assets going into 24'

I don't care who Rams get to upgrade Hoecht ... Burns, IMO, is best scheme fit but availability is an issue. I don't see Chase Young as a scheme fit and ?? injuries but who knows? Maybe he can play more than 40 end ... Hunter has shown he can but he's more of a DE than a combined DE/OLB

I wouldn't mind just getting a guy in 1st round, either.

 

[JimY53]

Still need to upgrade but Hoecht busts butt here ... this is hard to do.


View: https://x.com/53_jim70721/status/1747162673471528980?s=20

 

[Kupped]

Still need to upgrade but Hoecht busts butt here ... this is hard to do.


View: https://x.com/53_jim70721/status/1747162673471528980?s=20

He's played well enough to put a second round tender on him, imo.

Maybe I'm smoking crack.. but he improved as the year went along in a position that he is new to... and I love guys like him. Think they're key to success.
He'd be your third/4th edge.. rotational guy.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It's true, production in terms of numbers ... and you didn't include pressures .. but that only proves your point more Young has more.

Young just needs a little more time to polish his skills. He's going to be really good, Pro Bowl-level IMO. A few too many mistakes this year but we al expected that. He needs to go to that Chuck Smith school of pass rushers ... where even elite NFL players go in the offseason to get better, learn new things.

Yeah, I'd put pressures as the 1b stat to sacks. The reason many people thought Will Anderson was the D rookie of the year while having less sacks than say Young and Turner was his crazy pressure rate.

Pressures are super important, maybe more than sacks.

 

[WestCoastRam]

It's true, production in terms of numbers ... and you didn't include pressures .. but that only proves your point more Young has more.

Young just needs a little more time to polish his skills. He's going to be really good, Pro Bowl-level IMO. A few too many mistakes this year but we al expected that. He needs to go to that Chuck Smith school of pass rushers ... where even elite NFL players go in the offseason to get better, learn new things.

Guy needs at least one good counter to speed rush, probably 2-3.

 

[JimY53]

People asking about Hoecht in coverage. The hope is to get somebody who is a big upgrade. This season it was either play him .. VVB, Thomas, Mathis, Hampton in his place full time. If people think that would be better -- okay, but there is no "Hoecht should not e in coverage. Whoever one of the OLBers are they have to cover

Depending on the protection of the offensive line one of the OLBers has to take the quarter flat if this us the coverage. It's either that or leave it open. If it is open the QB will hit it and the structure of the defense is compromised - you are one short and you cannot run the defense.

It goes back to this is the defense McVay wants. This is Fangio's defense and in it, one linebacker covers at times. And if this is an effective coverage (I don't know the numbers) then you have to do it this way.

In this case, with Staley it is not the same call but Floyd has to cover the guy. This is a Penny from but maybe a different call

 

[JimY53]

Then there is this call, More Fangio -- Match zone that can switch sides or not play the coverage offense expects. In cover 6 they play Cover-4 to the strong side and Cover-2 to the weak side.

Cov-8 is the opposite. Cov-2 to the strong and Cover 4 to the weak side.

So, you don't want to know which is the Cov-4 or Cov-2 -- you disguise it by showing the Same cov-2 shell but based on reads you go to Cov-6 or 8


Don't know the call but suspect it is some form of 2-read. You see Ebuakam. Young, Hoecht

It was not even unknown to Wade Phillips -- first still

I think any defensive coordinator is trying to win. You play the coverages that work best and the players who do it best. That does
not mean Rams cannot upgrade with someone. I think this year with cap crunch and eating all the dead cap money Hoecht is the best option. And that even though he gets beat, we don't see the times he does well. We never notice those things, only the bad.

If we complain that we don't think it should be done this way, the all we are doing is complaining about the scheme.

In these situations, the offense is in 12 personnel and slotting a TE ... or could be a WR. When they are in 12 defense is in the base defense -- 3-4. But one LBer is walked out.

If you think someone other than Hoecht should be there, who? Which one?

If you think Rams should run a nickel defense against another team's base ... what happens? remember when Rams ran it against the Ravens on the opening drive? Because McVay saw they were in nickel. It's a mismatch.

McVay only started throwing at the end because Ravens went to a base defense. Not more mismatch in the run game.

So that is the reason and the examples. Like it or not it's been done and it's very likely it has been very effective as a call. They track everything ... what offense ran, what the defensive call was and then the yards given up on that ... and yes who got beat.