3 observations

[max]

Does anyone else wonder why Givens doesn't score more often on those deep catches? I wonder if it has anything to do with him not not quite being explosive enough after the catch. It's weird, he runs by people, but then gets caught from behind.

And is anyone else a tad nervous that Sam freezes up in the red zone? I mean, he makes astonishing throws at times like the TD to Givens in Cleveland, then he goes open loop on a gimme to Tavon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm hoping its just a matter of him being a guy who needs lots of reps to get some sort of muscle memory on those "chip shots". I just don't think Sam is an intuitive player like Wilson appears to me to be.

I noticed that Cook isn't targeted in the end zone. I've read that he isn't the type of player who is cut out for short spaces. Anyone think that holds water?

 

[-X-]

FWIW....

1. Yeah, I noticed that too. And Richardson as well. Both get clear separation and then inevitably someone gets an angle on them and catches up. I don't know that it's really that much out of the ordinary though on passes that stay in the air for 50 yards. But I guess I wouldn't mind seeing him plant a foot and make a sharp cut after catching one of those seam busters or 9's. He doesn't look to have the same fluidity that Bruce or Holt had on those same types of passes, but I'm not complaining. 50+ yards is 50+ yards.

2. Sample size is kinda small. The Rams didn't make it to the redzone as much as 90% of the league, so it's hard to say. Last year his redzone percentage was higher towards the end of the year, and Pettis came on towards the end there, so I dunno. He makes some good throws down there (Pettis, Givens [vs CLE], Quick [vs MIN], etc), but it's hard to say if it's an issue right now. Things obviously get tighter and faster down there, so I'll wait to see how he performs this year to offer a definitive opinion on it.

3. I don't think they were trying to utilize him much in the redzone/endzone yet. I don't see how in the world he would be ineffective in that area of the field. He's stupid tall and has a good vertical. There won't be any (much) separation in those tight quarters, so I'll have to point to the sample size again and say there isn't enough. Something tells me we're all gonna be pleasantly surprised by how the scheming looks when the regular season starts, because right now there's none.

 

[den-the-coach]

Some of the playcalling in the Redzone has to fall on Brian Schottenheimer because he seems to dial up the same plays just like against the Packers on Saturday Night. Austin was open and he went right back to the same play on the very next play, really Coach?

Schottenheimer also did that routinely last season after Pettis caught a ball against the 49ers they kept calling that play to him time & time again. Schottenheimer is not the most creative OC.

 

[CoachO]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

 

[Tron]

I will say that a lot of the bombs to Givens are a little underthrown and he does have to slow down to get them( like in the first preseason game). This last bomb against the packers he didnt have much of a lead on the DB.

But i do agree he might not be as explosive as we thought, which is fine. If Bradford throws it on point we will see more td's, maybe not many more, but more.

 

[-X-]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

Eeeeeaaasy. Max is just aware of all that, I'm sure. He's just getting a conversation started is all. You have to be careful to remember that this isn't the PD, Coach. Nobody is here to troll the board simply to incite a visceral reaction.

That said, and the thing of it is, Bradford *did* struggle a little last year with turnovers in the redzone, and he *did* miss that pass to Austin, so it's a valid observation. And we're all Bradford fans here, so there's no bad motives. I will say, however, that with the emergence of Quick, and the addition of Cook, he'll have better options this year in that area. IMO, he should continue to build on his statistically better 2nd half of 2012.

I do agree that people tend to get all bowed up over these preseason games, but I can see why. We've all hyped up these guys (Cook, Austin, Bailey, Pead), and maybe we expected to see them move the ball and score with relative ease as opposed to 1 TD in two games. Again, I don't think that's an indication of things to come. It just is what it is.

 

[iced]

Does anyone else wonder why Givens doesn't score more often on those deep catches? I wonder if it has anything to do with him not not quite being explosive enough after the catch. It's weird, he runs by people, but then gets caught from behind.

And is anyone else a tad nervous that Sam freezes up in the red zone? I mean, he makes astonishing throws at times like the TD to Givens in Cleveland, then he goes open loop on a gimme to Tavon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm hoping its just a matter of him being a guy who needs lots of reps to get some sort of muscle memory on those "chip shots". I just don't think Sam is an intuitive player like Wilson appears to me to be.

I think he overshot Tavon but I think Tavon could have caught it if he had kept running - he looked like he slowed up a bit when the ball was in the air. I thought it was funny they called the same play twice, clearly were trying to get Austin into the red zone.

I don't get the deal with givens either - I've yet to see him actually break away from a guy for a TD.

I noticed that Cook isn't targeted in the end zone. I've read that he isn't the type of player who is cut out for short spaces. Anyone think that holds water?

That's cause it's the preseason and they don't want to tip their hand. Peter King said he and bradford had great chemistry going, and in 5 red zone plays, 3 were catches for td's by Cook in practice.

 

[ramsince62]

Does anyone else wonder why Givens doesn't score more often on those deep catches? I wonder if it has anything to do with him not not quite being explosive enough after the catch. It's weird, he runs by people, but then gets caught from behind.

And is anyone else a tad nervous that Sam freezes up in the red zone? I mean, he makes astonishing throws at times like the TD to Givens in Cleveland, then he goes open loop on a gimme to Tavon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm hoping its just a matter of him being a guy who needs lots of reps to get some sort of muscle memory on those "chip shots". I just don't think Sam is an intuitive player like Wilson appears to me to be.

I think he overshot Tavon but I think Tavon could have caught it if he had kept running - he looked like he slowed up a bit when the ball was in the air. I thought it was funny they called the same play twice, clearly were trying to get Austin into the red zone.

I don't get the deal with givens either - I've yet to see him actually break away from a guy for a TD.

I noticed that Cook isn't targeted in the end zone. I've read that he isn't the type of player who is cut out for short spaces. Anyone think that holds water?

That's cause it's the preseason and they don't want to tip their hand. Peter King said he and bradford had great chemistry going, and in 5 red zone plays, 3 were catches for td's by Cook in practice.

I like X's perspective regarding Givens (after the catch) not cutting or changing the angle of persuit. He may indeed be slowing to make the catch, but then continues the same angle to the EZ.

My impression is that Cook can and will use his height and size in the RZ. That said, the opinions I've read most are that his speed is more "straight line" and therefore, not an advantage scrambling around in the EZ as oppossed to the open field.

Re: Bradford's problem's in the RZ......"we'll work on that".......a bit more :what:

 

[max]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

Eeeeeaaasy. Max is just aware of all that, I'm sure. He's just getting a conversation started is all. You have to be careful to remember that this isn't the PD, Coach. Nobody is here to troll the board simply to incite a visceral reaction.

That said, and the thing of it is, Bradford *did* struggle a little last year with turnovers in the redzone, and he *did* miss that pass to Austin, so it's a valid observation. And we're all Bradford fans here, so there's no bad motives. I will say, however, that with the emergence of Quick, and the addition of Cook, he'll have better options this year in that area. IMO, he should continue to build on his statistically better 2nd half of 2012.

I do agree that people tend to get all bowed up over these preseason games, but I can see why. We've all hyped up these guys (Cook, Austin, Bailey, Pead), and maybe we expected to see them move the ball and score with relative ease as opposed to 1 TD in two games. Again, I don't think that's an indication of things to come. It just is what it is.

True. I love Sam. I have only one Rams jersey and it reads Bradford on the back.

Now let me add more to the discussion. Iirc, Bradford was great on 2 pt. conversions last year, so it's not a space issue with him. I simply think he's a guy who is not at his best without lots of reps with a receiver. Maybe he gets to that point later in his career, but I don't see it now. And I dismiss the argument that if Givens scores Sam doesn't mess up in the red zone. I want to see Sam get reps in the red zone in preseason. And if he messes up a pass to Tavon, well ok, next play. Then I want to see San get reps on 4th and goal. It's all about practicing situational football.

And I ain't buying any of that stuff about Sam needs to lead Givens better for Givens to score. I watched Eli throw a much shorter pass to Cruz, where he reaches back and catches it low and still goes the distance. My view is that Givens just isn't as quick with the ball in his hands. That's fine, as X said, 59 yds is 59 yds. I'll take it any day.

 

[CoachO]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

Eeeeeaaasy. Max is just aware of all that, I'm sure. He's just getting a conversation started is all. You have to be careful to remember that this isn't the PD, Coach. Nobody is here to troll the board simply to incite a visceral reaction.

That said, and the thing of it is, Bradford *did* struggle a little last year with turnovers in the redzone, and he *did* miss that pass to Austin, so it's a valid observation. And we're all Bradford fans here, so there's no bad motives. I will say, however, that with the emergence of Quick, and the addition of Cook, he'll have better options this year in that area. IMO, he should continue to build on his statistically better 2nd half of 2012.

I do agree that people tend to get all bowed up over these preseason games, but I can see why. We've all hyped up these guys (Cook, Austin, Bailey, Pead), and maybe we expected to see them move the ball and score with relative ease as opposed to 1 TD in two games. Again, I don't think that's an indication of things to come. It just is what it is.

Point taken. Didn't mean to come across as aggressively as it did.

Trust me I get this isn't the PD site.

So on a more tempered level. The perceived panic that sets in after these glorified scrimmages does tend to get out of hand.

This is one of the most experienced coaching staffs in the NFL and I truly Believe they have a plan in place that is geared to Sept 8th.

Hoping to see certain things is natural as a fan. But patience is the word of the day as it pertains to the preseason.

 

[max]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

Eeeeeaaasy. Max is just aware of all that, I'm sure. He's just getting a conversation started is all. You have to be careful to remember that this isn't the PD, Coach. Nobody is here to troll the board simply to incite a visceral reaction.

That said, and the thing of it is, Bradford *did* struggle a little last year with turnovers in the redzone, and he *did* miss that pass to Austin, so it's a valid observation. And we're all Bradford fans here, so there's no bad motives. I will say, however, that with the emergence of Quick, and the addition of Cook, he'll have better options this year in that area. IMO, he should continue to build on his statistically better 2nd half of 2012.

I do agree that people tend to get all bowed up over these preseason games, but I can see why. We've all hyped up these guys (Cook, Austin, Bailey, Pead), and maybe we expected to see them move the ball and score with relative ease as opposed to 1 TD in two games. Again, I don't think that's an indication of things to come. It just is what it is.

Point taken. Didn't mean to come across as aggressively as it did.

Trust me I get this isn't the PD site.

So on a more tempered level. The perceived panic that sets in after these glorified scrimmages does tend to get out of hand.

This is one of the most experienced coaching staffs in the NFL and I truly Believe they have a plan in place that is geared to Sept 8th.

Hoping to see certain things is natural as a fan. But patience is the word of the day as it pertains to the preseason.

No problem.

I have found that this board is a lot less panicky than other boards. Still, it is worthwhile to ask questions about certain characteristics of some of the players. That's all I was out to accomplish. You make observations during these glorified scrimmages and you can juxtapose them with profiles of the players from other sources. Maybe they all go away a month from now. Maybe they don't. But it can't hurt to discuss them reasonably.

And I dismiss comments like I've read on other boards that blames Givens not getting in the end zone on Bradford, because Sam didn't get the ball out sooner and allowed Givens to run under it. That kind of stuff is just hyper off the wall Bradford criticism.

 

[EastRam]

The thing I find to be so curious, If Bradford completes the pass at the Goalline to Austin, a pass he will complete 99 times out of 100, NO ONE is questioning the play call, the RedZone problems, etc.

It happens. Rather it happen on August 17th, than Sept 8th.

As to the question about Cook. If you would see the amount of time they put in during practice working on RedZone stuff, and the crazy number of targets Cook gets, you would not be concerned about his "role" inside the 10 yard line.

Again, people, its AUGUST. They just aren't going to show their hand just so they can score a TD to ease the mind of a fan base that gets nervous during a PRESEASON GAME.


Do they want to score,, DUH!!!! But not if it means tipping their hand with anything that shows formations and/or routes that they will need later when it counts.

Eeeeeaaasy. Max is just aware of all that, I'm sure. He's just getting a conversation started is all. You have to be careful to remember that this isn't the PD, Coach. Nobody is here to troll the board simply to incite a visceral reaction.

That said, and the thing of it is, Bradford *did* struggle a little last year with turnovers in the redzone, and he *did* miss that pass to Austin, so it's a valid observation. And we're all Bradford fans here, so there's no bad motives. I will say, however, that with the emergence of Quick, and the addition of Cook, he'll have better options this year in that area. IMO, he should continue to build on his statistically better 2nd half of 2012.

I do agree that people tend to get all bowed up over these preseason games, but I can see why. We've all hyped up these guys (Cook, Austin, Bailey, Pead), and maybe we expected to see them move the ball and score with relative ease as opposed to 1 TD in two games. Again, I don't think that's an indication of things to come. It just is what it is.

Point taken. Didn't mean to come across as aggressively as it did.

Trust me I get this isn't the PD site.

So on a more tempered level. The perceived panic that sets in after these glorified scrimmages does tend to get out of hand.

This is one of the most experienced coaching staffs in the NFL and I truly Believe they have a plan in place that is geared to Sept 8th.

Hoping to see certain things is natural as a fan. But patience is the word of the day as it pertains to the preseason.

No problem.

I have found that this board is a lot less panicky than other boards. Still, it is worthwhile to ask questions about certain characteristics of some of the players. That's all I was out to accomplish. You make observations during these glorified scrimmages and you can juxtapose them with profiles of the players from other sources. Maybe they all go away a month from now. Maybe they don't. But it can't hurt to discuss them reasonably.

And I dismiss comments like I've read on other boards that blames Givens not getting in the end zone on Bradford, because Sam didn't get the ball out sooner and allowed Givens to run under it. That kind of stuff is just hyper off the wall Bradford criticism.

OK First I really like SB...But he does seem to get the ball out late sometimes as compared to the Mannings and Bradys of the NFL.

 

[max]

OK First I really like SB...But he does seem to get the ball out late sometimes as compared to the Mannings and Bradys of the NFL.

Hater.

Ok, seriously. I don't expect him to get it out as fast as those 2 guys just yet. But I do expect Sam to get the ball out quicker this year than last year, and take it from there. It's a process. 2 year in the system now, get faster. Sam should be as quick getting it out as any 2nd year QB.

 

[Selassie I]

As for the Sam / Givens connection...

Didn't 5 games in a row with a 50 yard completion match an NFL record? Givens did it as a rookie.

I for one am fucking impressed. I fully expect that combo to grow and improve. Imagine that !

 

[bluecoconuts]

OK First I really like SB...But he does seem to get the ball out late sometimes as compared to the Mannings and Bradys of the NFL.

Physically I think Bradford has a faster release than them, but maybe not. I've heard he has one of the fastest releases and has some of the most zip on the ball. In game situations it's probably a little bit different, but that'll come with more experience and comfort in the system and with his receivers. It's very obvious that Sam loves throwing deep to Givens, and the more he does it the prettier it'll get.

 

[LesBaker]

Does anyone else wonder why Givens doesn't score more often on those deep catches? I wonder if it has anything to do with him not not quite being explosive enough after the catch. It's weird, he runs by people, but then gets caught from behind.

And is anyone else a tad nervous that Sam freezes up in the red zone? I mean, he makes astonishing throws at times like the TD to Givens in Cleveland, then he goes open loop on a gimme to Tavon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm hoping its just a matter of him being a guy who needs lots of reps to get some sort of muscle memory on those "chip shots". I just don't think Sam is an intuitive player like Wilson appears to me to be.

I noticed that Cook isn't targeted in the end zone. I've read that he isn't the type of player who is cut out for short spaces. Anyone think that holds water?

Just my opinions but I think I'm right on all three.

Bradford has to do a better job of leading Givens, on a few of those long ones he is slowing down to grab it allowing the defender to close.

The Red Zone point you make is real and it is a mild concern. I think part of it is that he doesn't yet have great touch on short passes. Bulger had that problem too if you recall. When he develops timing and touch with someone tall he will be ok.

I would not worry one single bit about what we are seeing right now. This staff is not going to show much of anything until the season opens so guys like Austin and Cook who can be big play guys aren't going to be providing film study just yet.

The real football can't get here soon enough.......

 

[EastRam]

OK First I really like SB...But he does seem to get the ball out late sometimes as compared to the Mannings and Bradys of the NFL.

Hater.

Ok, seriously. I don't expect him to get it out as fast as those 2 guys just yet. But I do expect Sam to get the ball out quicker this year than last year, and take it from there. It's a process. 2 year in the system now, get faster. Sam should be as quick getting it out as any 2nd year QB.

It may just take him all of this season and part of next considering all the new WR's he's trying to establish timing with.

 

[DR RAM]

Does anyone else wonder why Givens doesn't score more often on those deep catches? I wonder if it has anything to do with him not not quite being explosive enough after the catch. It's weird, he runs by people, but then gets caught from behind.

And is anyone else a tad nervous that Sam freezes up in the red zone? I mean, he makes astonishing throws at times like the TD to Givens in Cleveland, then he goes open loop on a gimme to Tavon. I'm not sure I get it, but I'm hoping its just a matter of him being a guy who needs lots of reps to get some sort of muscle memory on those "chip shots". I just don't think Sam is an intuitive player like Wilson appears to me to be.

I think he overshot Tavon but I think Tavon could have caught it if he had kept running - he looked like he slowed up a bit when the ball was in the air. I thought it was funny they called the same play twice, clearly were trying to get Austin into the red zone.

I don't get the deal with givens either - I've yet to see him actually break away from a guy for a TD.

I noticed that Cook isn't targeted in the end zone. I've read that he isn't the type of player who is cut out for short spaces. Anyone think that holds water?

That's cause it's the preseason and they don't want to tip their hand. Peter King said he and bradford had great chemistry going, and in 5 red zone plays, 3 were catches for td's by Cook in practice.

Iced, I saw this too, Tavon stopped running too soon. On the next red zone attempt to him, he didn't get deep enough to score, and he was also short on a 3rd down attempt earlier in the game. He clearly needs to work on his route running, and awareness on the field.

As far as Givens, guys, just let me throw one thing out there...you run faster WITHOUT the ball in your hands.

 

[bomebadeeda]

I think once the season starts you'll see trips w/ Cook, Austin, Quick, Givens and whoever else they want to throw in there. And also you'll see them use the inside rub. All we have seen so far is the outside setup (to Austin and to Rishardson....). But you throw together 2 tall guys and one fast and have them do a scatter (crossing routes...) right from the Triple WR or use 2 fast and 1 large...and run the 2 fast guys and sit down the big one.....it will be a nightmare.......but not for us......

I ain't buying Pettis in the mix....... He just isn't stepping up and getting seperation. I see Bailey being a better force as the #4.

 

[CGI_Ram]

I think once the season starts you'll see trips w/ Cook, Austin, Quick, Givens and whoever else they want to throw in there. And also you'll see them use the inside rub. All we have seen so far is the outside setup (to Austin and to Rishardson....). But you throw together 2 tall guys and one fast and have them do a scatter (crossing routes...) right from the Triple WR or use 2 fast and 1 large...and run the 2 fast guys and sit down the big one.....it will be a nightmare.......but not for us......

I ain't buying Pettis in the mix....... He just isn't stepping up and getting seperation. I see Bailey being a better force as the #4.

Co-sign.