Would you have kept Marvin Lewis?

[drasconis]

That QB's record (if there is such a thing) was 12-3, they had a great defense and a solid RB and average at best WR/TEs. My argument is that Fisher can win and has won with that kind of team

Less than 30% of time, and hasn't done it in 7 years, and hasn't done it in the post season for 10yrs. Those aren't great numbers, worse they are trending down...this isn't the sign of a coach that is learning and getting better as his career goes on, this is a sign of a coach that either got lucky long ago or hasn't kept up with the changes in the league...

 

[DR RAM]

@Rainram I agree with pretty much everything you said. Most importantly the Rams had far too many holes to fill when Bradford was supposed to be the long term solution at QB. There was no way they could afford to spend a 1 or 2 on a guy to develop. Still wish we had gone with Matthews in stead of Grob but LT was definitely a need with a couple of good players available at 2 and I would not give away Donald for anyone. I'm completely fine with not taking one of the other guys with a reach in round one this year I'll take Gurley.

Let's face it they have had some crappy luck with injuries that have affected their ability to build a winner. Some people think that is just an excuse but I'm not buying that, pick you analogy you can get it done with second level players at half of your starting positions.

I don't watch enough college ball to have a good idea about this coming season and if there is someone worth an RGIII deal. I think there are still too many other positions that need to be reloaded and we don't know if Mannion can be a guy to at least get us through the next couple of years.

@FRO I don't think we can say Fisher hand picked Foles, I'm srure there are probably 5 or 6 other guys he would have taken if he had his pick. Foles was the best deal available that gave them a chance and dumped Bradford's salary. Is he really as bad as he has shown the last 6 games? Can he be as good as he was in the 1st game? Is he too far gone after taking a beating?

I don't see Fisher getting canned before his deal is completed. Does a new OC make things better? 3rd one in 3 years? Can be much worse.

In fact, I heard that Fisher wasn't happy with that move. Does that mean, he IS NOT in total control? Begs an answer, because a lot of this debate, is putting everything on him, including, all personnel decisions, injuries, player performance, and our schedule.

As far as Foles, and our OL, it wasn't Saffold going down that killed us. It was Havenstein, and then close after that, two more defacto starters. That is a a lot to overcome. Foles, who really knew, that he would have lost his ability to hang in the pocket, read a defense, and make an accurate throw? He can't do any of those things. I didn't see it.

Why I'm at it, who thought that Quick, would have an arm attached, only because of his skin, and muscle. Who thought that Sted wouldn't be able to keep from taking PED's, or Chris Long, and Robert Quinn's injuries, Fisher's fault?

Here's where I stand. Keep Fisher, and force his hand, if needed, to hire a real OC, and make him stay out of the offensive, completely.

 

[blackbart]

Less than 30% of time, and hasn't done it in 7 years, and hasn't done it in the post season for 10yrs. Those aren't great numbers, worse they are trending down...this isn't the sign of a coach that is learning and getting better as his career goes on, this is a sign of a coach that either got lucky long ago or hasn't kept up with the changes in the league...

More than likely it is a coach that has had a dearth of talent and an abundance of injuries

 

[blackbart]

In fact, I heard that Fisher wasn't happy with that move. Does that mean, he IS NOT in total control? Begs an answer, because a lot of this debate, is putting everything on him, including, all personnel decisions, injuries, player performance, and our schedule.

Yeah but I don't think Fish is going to come out and say something publicly to deflect anything. I see him as a guy who thinks his shoulders are big enough to carry everything while protecting his guys, FO or players.

 

[DR RAM]

Yeah but I don't think Fish is going to come out and say something publicly to deflect anything. I see him as a guy who thinks his shoulders are big enough to carry everything while protecting his guys, FO or players.

That is exactly who he is. I like that part of him.

The dude almost ripped JT's head off, when he questioned the player's effort. I'm exaggerating here, a little.

 

[LesBaker]

It's kind of weird isn't it? Fisher is praised nationally despite his below average record and Lewis is scrutinized despite being 108-90-2 in his career

Lewis has had a lot more talent on the roster, and took over a WAY better team than Fisher and Snead did. That's why fans wanted him gone.

If this team had a QB like CPalmer and the level of talent it does now and a HC came in and didn't put up playoff wins fans would be screaming for his head too.

 

[Rmfnlt]

I don't think it would help. In fact I think it would cause some major in house problems. Kinda like it did in Tennessee. I mean one of the major reasons he agreed to come here was because he was told he'd have total control.

I can see this as being a problem, too.

Fisher appears to me to have quite the ego... is stubborn and a control freak.

I could definitely see where, if he were given an ultimatum, he'd tell them to pound salt.

 

[LesBaker]

I know. Wishful thinking on my part. Lucky for him Tennessee hasn't gotten any better since he left or they'd look like geniuses.

Imagine if that jerkoff Bud Adams was still alive. They'd be even worse.

 

[DR RAM]

I can see this as being a problem, too.

Fisher appears to me to have quite the ego... is stubborn and a control freak.

I could definitely see where, if he were given an ultimatum, he'd tell them to pound salt.

And if that happens, then I don't see many having a problem with that. Spags was a control freak. Not even is the same category. It may come as a surprise to you, that most HC's would have these same traits.

 

[-X-]

When was the last time Fisher acquired a stud WR and decent QB? Thats not his M.O. He prefers a stud RB and power line. IIRC, his comment when they drafted all those linemen "We got our road graders". Thats what he wants. Power running and solid defense. He failed to acknowledge how important the QB and WR's are too.

Well, what he needs and what he'll do are two different things. I was just commenting on what I feel he needs. If he could get himself another Steve McNair kind of talent and a Kevin Dyson and/or Frank Wycheck, then this offense will be able to do enough to get where they need to go. I don't think he failed to acknowledge how important the QB and WR positions are. That would mean he's completely unqualified and doesn't even know how football is supposed to work. It's really not worth enumerating all the things that happened to get us where we are now (again), so I'll just leave it as a 'agree to disagree' as it pertains to that particular notion.

 

[Mojo Ram]

Here's where I stand. Keep Fisher, and force his hand, if needed, to hire a real OC, and make him stay out of the offensive, completely.

+1

 

[dieterbrock]

Lewis has had a lot more talent on the roster, and took over a WAY better team than Fisher and Snead did. That's why fans wanted him gone.

Are we talking year 1 of Lewis HC? Because that team was awful. 19 wins over 5 years before Lewis became coach

 

[LesBaker]

Are we talking year 1 of Lewis HC? Because that team was awful. 19 wins over 5 years before Lewis became coach

But they had some talent on the roster when he arrived. Then Brown draafted Palmer who is an excellent QB. So it's not a big shock that fans and local media were on his ass when that roster wasn't delivering as they felt they should have been.

I'm not saying it's right, but trust me a lot of people wanted him gone, especially with the off field issues some players had.

 

[SixthGauge]

That QB's record (if there is such a thing) was 12-3, they had a great defense and a solid RB and average at best WR/TEs. My argument is that Fisher can win and has won with that kind of team

If it was as simple as getting a Kerry Collins on this team, we would already be winning. Austin Davis and Shaun Hill are easily in the same category as Kerry Collins.

I don't doubt that Jeff Fisher could, at some point, win with that formula- but there's really been no evidence of it working in St. Louis. And it's not like he had sustained success with that formula in Tennessee.

I like Jeff Fisher, I really want him to succeed here, but at some point he has to make lemonade out of lemons. You could be waiting a long time for all the right pieces to fall in place. A lot of our defense is up for free agency next year, and we have the same amount of uncertainty about our offense as the previous 2 years, Gurley aside.

 

[HitStick]

One thing I keep seeing is how Fisher inherited a crap team and then had to deal with injuries as if he's the only coach to deal with issues. When the Patriots lose Gronk, doesn't matter. They lose Edelman, doesn't matter. Broncos lose Peyton, doesn't matter. Carolina loses Benjamin, doesn't matter. Great coaches rise to the occasion, everyone else uses it as an excuse.

 

[blackbart]

If it was as simple as getting a Kerry Collins on this team, we would already be winning. Austin Davis and Shaun Hill are easily in the same category as Kerry Collins.

I don't doubt that Jeff Fisher could, at some point, win with that formula- but there's really been no evidence of it working in St. Louis. And it's not like he had sustained success with that formula in Tennessee.

I like Jeff Fisher, I really want him to succeed here, but at some point he has to make lemonade out of lemons. You could be waiting a long time for all the right pieces to fall in place. A lot of our defense is up for free agency next year, and we have the same amount of uncertainty about our offense as the previous 2 years, Gurley aside.

You lost any cred thinking those two are nearly as good as Collins who started 180 games in the NFL. Hill is a career back up and Davis is may not be that good.

Anyone that thinks Fisher has had close to the talent and sustained health in StL that he had with the Oilers/Titans... REALLY???

Mindboggling

 

[drasconis]

You lost any cred thinking those two are nearly as good as Collins who started 180 games in the NFL. Hill is a career back up and Davis is may not be that good.

Anyone that thinks Fisher has had close to the talent and sustained health in StL that he had with the Oilers/Titans... REALLY???

Mindboggling

His players, his choice, and in most cases a reasonably informed decision. Hill and Davis were his choice...so if they weren't good enough it is on him....

 

[-X-]

One thing I keep seeing is how Fisher inherited a crap team and then had to deal with injuries as if he's the only coach to deal with issues. When the Patriots lose Gronk, doesn't matter. They lose Edelman, doesn't matter. Broncos lose Peyton, doesn't matter. Carolina loses Benjamin, doesn't matter. Great coaches rise to the occasion, everyone else uses it as an excuse.

Those are all better teams. I get what you're saying, but a team lighter on talent can't afford to lose players. A team heavy on talent can spare a guy or two. This Rams team can't afford to lose Ogletree, Gaines, Johnson, Long, Quinn, Brown, Williams, Havenstein, Saffold and Bailey while watching Foles methodically tank. Unless the NFL rule of thumb is that all of your backups should be better than the starters.

 

[blackbart]

His players, his choice, and in most cases a reasonably informed decision. Hill and Davis were his choice...so if they weren't good enough it is on him....

There you go with his choice again as if he had every player in the league to choose from. This isn't Madden or fantasy football.

 

[SixthGauge]

You lost any cred thinking those two are nearly as good as Collins who started 180 games in the NFL. Hill is a career back up and Davis is may not be that good.

Anyone that thinks Fisher has had close to the talent and sustained health in StL that he had with the Oilers/Titans... REALLY???

Mindboggling

16 games, 58.3% completion, 2,676 yards, 6.4 yards/attempt, 12 TD, 7 INT, 80.2 RTG
9 games, 63.3% completion, 1,657 yards, 7.2 yards/attempt, 8 TD, 7 INT, 83.9 RTG
10 games, 63.4% completion, 2,001 yards, 7 yards/attempt, 12 TD, 9 INT, 85.1 RTG

Kerry Collins 2008, Shaun Hill 2014, and Austin Davis 2014 respectively. Collins had 3 games with a 100+ Passer Rating in 2008, Hill and Davis had 6 games (combined) in 2014. That was Collins best season with Jeff Fisher. Hell, that was the best season a Titan QB had under Jeff Fisher in the post McNair era.

Regardless of who Kerry Collins was, his level of play with the Titans was no better than the quarterback play we've been getting.

You don't seem to be thinking rationally about this Kerry Collins thing, so I'm not too bothered about my cred. I guess stats and game logs don't tell the whole story.