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RamFan503

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I know I will be looked at as a homer and while one of the oldest cliches in football is that everyone has a chance at the beginning of the season, I just wanted to look at this year's Rams vs. last year's team group by group and see where we are better or worse off. I know I will leave some players out and it won't be a completely unbiased view but what the hell.

I am also going to ignore the injury thing as much as possible and try to just look at the talent level on both sides of the ball. We all hope the injury bug doesn't hit us so I want to look more at talent levels and other changes made.

Let's start off with QB - after all it's a "QB driven league" :beating:

Last year at this time we had Bradford, Feeley, and Brandstater. This year we have Bradford, Clemens, and Brandstater. My contention would be that Bradford, though going into his third system in as many years, also has two years under his belt. He was pounded repeatedly last season and though he did seem to feel pressure that wasn't exactly there last season, he also stepped into throws where he knew he was going to be hit during the same stretch. He played much of the season on a bad pod after no real off season and was trying to deal with IMO an OC with too big of an ego to honestly assess the talent level and experience of his team. This season, he will likely have an OC that allows him to play more within his experience and skill set. The addition of Wells will be huge for him as well.

If Bradford should go down, I definitely like the fact that we have Clemens behind him far more than having Feeley. Clemens also has the edge of familiarity with Schotty.

OL - Lots of question marks here. So let's look at last year's bunch: Saffold, Smith, Brown, LeVore, Goldberg, Dahl, Mattison, Wragge, Bell, Foster, and Hughes. Out of that bunch we kept Saffold, Smith, Dahl, and Mattison. We added Wells and Watkins and several others that I'm not overly excited about. So this is going to be a huge coaching challenge and I just have to hope that Boudreau is all that. If not, we could be in for another long year. Smith IMO is a liability and absolutely needs to step up. He gets beat more than a three legged mule. My guess is that he doesn't last at RT. I sure hope I'm wrong. I will say however that the addition of Wells calling the protections should not be overlooked. Over all, I would say that this unit may have some slight improvement in talent - maybe. It will come down to coaching and the right scheme.

RB - Of course we have SJ for both years. We have no idea what Pead or Richardson will become. I think we all are salivating at what they look like on tape. While Williams played admirably at times IMO, he had way too many mental lapses for my tastes and just didn't have the jets to make a difference or make defenses worry at all. Norwood was a total non-factor.

I definitely believe we have upgraded the position and potentially in a big way that will open up the offense out of the backfield. Look for Pead to get some touches where he lines up outside or in motion - ala Marshall. I'm not comparing him mind you. I just think he will be used similarly at times.

WR - Last year we all know Danny went down and that changed everything. Danny is not injury prone -nor was the injury something likely to re-occur. After Danny and before Lloyd, we had a combination of 2nd stringers, receivers playing at far less than 100% and rookies. We brought in Lloyd IMO too late and with too few compliments to make a real difference.

This season we still have a lot of unknowns. However, Danny will be back and likely a key part of the receiver corps. Danario has quicks and height and let's just say he plays the same number of snaps as last year. He gives us a good weapon to stretch the field and could be huge in the red zone. With Quick and Givens on the outside potentially most of the snaps, defenses will have to be more aware of the vertical threat. Add to that Salas and Smith slashing the middle of the field and you have what I feel is potentially (man I hate that term) a dramatically improved WR unit.

TE - Kendricks showed me flashes of why they picked him with a high 2nd but was sooooo obviously a rookie. Big Mike last year was his usual injury prone self. Bajema was just that mediocre but somewhat steady TE. Onobun was obviously a non-factor. And Spach? This season, Kendricks has beefed up a bit, improved his conditioning routine, and has just flat out is not a rookie any more. He to me is the biggest difference we will see this season at TE. Big Mike will need to stay healthy before anyone can say he is a factor. I honestly have to say that I don't know much about Peterson but what I have seen on tape looks promising. This season? Dunno. Mulligan I feel is an upgrade as a blocking TE. All in all, I see a slight improvement at TE.

FB - I think this position is quite possibly the most static of all positions I am bringing up here. The one difference may just be in how they are used. I'll call this one a wash.

Moving on to the defense, this is where I see the biggest improvement in talent.

DE - Last year we had Long, Hall, Quinn, Simms, Ah You, and Selvie. I was upset when they cut Selvie but I moved on. Long showed that he going nowhere but up. I thought Quinn was looking like a potential beast but let his rookieness and rawness show. Simms and Ah You had their moments.

This season I see Quinn with more intense coaching at run defense. He will be at least as good at rushing the passer. One problem I see is that we will likely miss Hall's experience a bit. I still think we improved at the starting RDE. Long will be just that much better than last season. AND - a big AND - he will have more help.

DT - Let's face it. Last season's DTs were either old or mediocre. Now we have IMO two DTs in Langford and Brockers that would start for most teams in the NFL. They will solidify the middle and vastly improve the run defense. We added Laws for depth and still have Cudjo, and Scott behind them. This unit possibly more than even the CBs should make this defense a terror to deal with.

LB - It was another rough season at the LB position for us last year. Aside from JL, Chamberlain and Hull played ok periodically.

I realize many feel we didn't do enough to upgrade this unit, but I see it differently. Fisher doesn't typically rely on a straight 4-3 in reality. He will often employ just two LBs. Even considering that fact, I will take the likes of Dunbar, Haggans, McIntosh, Hoffman-Ellis, Cole, and Brown over last year's Chamberlain, Cole, Kehl, Nixon, Poppinga, Leber, and Diggs. I'm not saying this is a greatly improved unit but I also don't see it as a liability this season. I couldn't say that last season even though I did expect more out of Poppinga and Leber. Look for JL to have an All-Pro season with the help of a slightly better LB corp and a solid DL.

CB - Are you kidding me? This pencils out to be a very tough secondary to pass against and of course it is due in large part to a big infusion of talent at CB. Injuries aside, we were just an ok unit heading into the season last year. Bring in Finnegan with his toughness and experience in Fisher's defense along with Jenkins and Johnson to team up with Fletcher and Murphy and you have IMO the most talented CB group in the NFL. This is a night and day difference from last year - again - injuries aside.

Safety - We had what I thought looked like a pretty good Safety group last year. Then the injuries hit. I'm not sure if this unit actually is as good as what we started the season with last year but I like what I see. Stewart will be another year BETTER and Mikell could start for most teams. Darian is going to show what he's got and people are going to pay. Dahl is IMO a serviceable #3 and Daniels has potential. Again, I am not sure if we improved at safety and it is entirely possible that we slipped a bit from what we started with last season. All that said, I look for them to be able to play with a little more wreckless abandon.

Finally, Special Teams - Sorry but I think the punter Hekker is too much of a boom or bust type punter for me to get all too excited about. Donnie Jones was pretty consistent for us. Yeah I know he had his worst year statistically but hell - join the club. I honestly look at the move of changing the punter as purely a money move. Zeurlein on the other hand looks to be a pretty big improvement. We'll see if he has the mental fortitude for the NFL but few if anyone questions his leg. I'm thinking touchbacks will be the rule and frankly, the only thing I ever liked about Brown as a Ram was that we snatched him from Seattle.

In the return game last year we had Danny - oops... who now? Return by committee sucked pretty bad. I never understood why we had Gilyard returning virtually everything only to cut him and leave us with nothing real behind Danny. Norwood? Talk about a shell of his early years. This year it looks like Danny will be the emergency go to returner if one of the others gets injured. I'm pretty excited about the options of Pead, Richardson, and Jenkins. I'm thinking there's a huge increase in return yards in store for us.

So all in all, I see a fairly substantial increase in talent at most positions. Our O-line is still a question mark. and we will simply have to see if several of the other positions pan out. But when I look at the NFL and see the parity that is truly there among most teams, a slight improvement here and there combined with what I see as the makings of an elite defense and I say - Why not the Rams?

Oh - bye the way. Did I mention the coaching staff that has seen virtually everything the NFL has to offer?
 

DR RAM

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Why not?

We seem deeper at almost every position.
 

libertadrocks

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Im on board. I dont really see any reason we cant turn things around this year in a serious way.

We have the talent in our starting 22. We need to stay healthy tho. Depth along the OLine, at DT, and at LB really scares me. Im not sure how many injuries we can sustain at those positions.

Easier schedule helps too
 

RamFan503

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Yeah - see I'm looking at everything that has changed and all that has remained and it sure seems to me that we have every bit as much of a chance of getting into the playoffs as any other team. I also think that this regime may know a bit more about conditioning and the proper way to prepare for the season. I'm thinking the result may very well be ... wait for it.... less injuries. We've had a rash of injuries over the past 6 years or so. Why? Cursed? I don't think so. I think it very well could be that we were not properly prepared for an NFL season. I just don't buy that it was all coincidence. First time HCs have their hands full as it is. They are learning about how to be a HC. I'm just not sure they have the patience to realize the old adage that you have to live to fight another day. Just my arm chair observation.
 

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RamFan503 said:
Yeah - see I'm looking at everything that has changed and all that has remained and it sure seems to me that we have every bit as much of a chance of getting into the playoffs as any other team. I also think that this regime may know a bit more about conditioning and the proper way to prepare for the season. I'm thinking the result may very well be ... wait for it.... less injuries. We've had a rash of injuries over the past 6 years or so. Why? Cursed? I don't think so. I think it very well could be that we were not properly prepared for an NFL season. I just don't buy that it was all coincidence. First time HCs have their hands full as it is. They are learning about how to be a HC. I'm just not sure they have the patience to realize the old adage that you have to live to fight another day. Just my arm chair observation.

Fisher kept the same trainers and medical people from the last regime. When it comes to that, 2012 is no different from 2011.

And the chances of 3 different head coaches not knowing how to run a camp to condition guys--in spite of having been coordinators in camps run by others (like Coughlin, for example)--doesn't add up.

The injuries were the injuries. Just plain freaking bad luck.
 

RamFan503

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zn said:
RamFan503 said:
Yeah - see I'm looking at everything that has changed and all that has remained and it sure seems to me that we have every bit as much of a chance of getting into the playoffs as any other team. I also think that this regime may know a bit more about conditioning and the proper way to prepare for the season. I'm thinking the result may very well be ... wait for it.... less injuries. We've had a rash of injuries over the past 6 years or so. Why? Cursed? I don't think so. I think it very well could be that we were not properly prepared for an NFL season. I just don't buy that it was all coincidence. First time HCs have their hands full as it is. They are learning about how to be a HC. I'm just not sure they have the patience to realize the old adage that you have to live to fight another day. Just my arm chair observation.

Fisher kept the same trainers and medical people from the last regime. When it comes to that, 2012 is no different from 2011.

And the chances of 3 different head coaches not knowing how to run a camp to condition guys--in spite of having been coordinators in camps run by others (like Coughlin, for example)--doesn't add up.

The injuries were the injuries. Just plain freaking bad luck.

Your premise that Fisher kept the same trainers et al therefore the conditioning and training program hasn't changed doesn't hold water. Several of the players have openly acknowledged that it HAS.

And to assume that because someone has worked under other head coaches - therefore they know how to put all that knowledge to work right away is a little simplistic don't you think? You are also assuming that coaches will take all that they have learned from their HCs and implement it. I'm sure that many if not most new HCs think they can take those programs and improve them. Those "improvements" wouldn't always pay off. Otherwise, every Coordinator that came into the league would be better than the HCs they played under.

Fisher has already spoken about when to push and when to hold back - when to give the guys a break, etc... He goes on to say things like - because we don't want guys pulling up lame, and in order to make it through camp with everybody healthy, yadda yadda yadda.

Maybe I keyed in on some of that because I have often wondered about how the different training regiments might be affecting injuries. I have a hard time attributing what we have seen to "bad luck".
 

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RamFan503 said:
zn said:
RamFan503 said:
Yeah - see I'm looking at everything that has changed and all that has remained and it sure seems to me that we have every bit as much of a chance of getting into the playoffs as any other team. I also think that this regime may know a bit more about conditioning and the proper way to prepare for the season. I'm thinking the result may very well be ... wait for it.... less injuries. We've had a rash of injuries over the past 6 years or so. Why? Cursed? I don't think so. I think it very well could be that we were not properly prepared for an NFL season. I just don't buy that it was all coincidence. First time HCs have their hands full as it is. They are learning about how to be a HC. I'm just not sure they have the patience to realize the old adage that you have to live to fight another day. Just my arm chair observation.

Fisher kept the same trainers and medical people from the last regime. When it comes to that, 2012 is no different from 2011.

And the chances of 3 different head coaches not knowing how to run a camp to condition guys--in spite of having been coordinators in camps run by others (like Coughlin, for example)--doesn't add up.

The injuries were the injuries. Just plain freaking bad luck.

Your premise that Fisher kept the same trainers et al therefore the conditioning and training program hasn't changed doesn't hold water..

But, the players haven't "acknowledged" anything about how they train or any of that.

Fisher is just following the NFL rules for whether and how much physical contact there can be in practices and how often they can practice in pads and even how many practices you can have during a day.

Those were the same rules the last regime followed.

I mean, I am not sure where you're getting this from, or what you're basing it on. Fisher is not doing anything differently from any other coach in the league when it comes to practices, contact and conditioning.

And besides, Fisher HAS had injury-strewn seasons (with the Titans of course).

Maybe you're referring to the fact that during the season he will back off when he senses a team needs it. But--if that were a culprit, then most injuries would occur past a certain breaking point when a team is deep into the season and banged up and worn out. But that's not the case. Amendola busted his arm for no apparent reason in game 1. Bradford got his ankle messed up in game 5. Bartell broke his neck in a freak collision early (forget which week). Fisher got tangled up with Sims-Walker during a practice, also early in the season (I also forget which week). Etc.
 

Thordaddy

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RamFan503 said:
zn said:
RamFan503 said:
Yeah - see I'm looking at everything that has changed and all that has remained and it sure seems to me that we have every bit as much of a chance of getting into the playoffs as any other team. I also think that this regime may know a bit more about conditioning and the proper way to prepare for the season. I'm thinking the result may very well be ... wait for it.... less injuries. We've had a rash of injuries over the past 6 years or so. Why? Cursed? I don't think so. I think it very well could be that we were not properly prepared for an NFL season. I just don't buy that it was all coincidence. First time HCs have their hands full as it is. They are learning about how to be a HC. I'm just not sure they have the patience to realize the old adage that you have to live to fight another day. Just my arm chair observation.

Fisher kept the same trainers and medical people from the last regime. When it comes to that, 2012 is no different from 2011.

And the chances of 3 different head coaches not knowing how to run a camp to condition guys--in spite of having been coordinators in camps run by others (like Coughlin, for example)--doesn't add up.

The injuries were the injuries. Just plain freaking bad luck.

Your premise that Fisher kept the same trainers et al therefore the conditioning and training program hasn't changed doesn't hold water. Several of the players have openly acknowledged that it HAS.

And to assume that because someone has worked under other head coaches - therefore they know how to put all that knowledge to work right away is a little simplistic don't you think? You are also assuming that coaches will take all that they have learned from their HCs and implement it. I'm sure that many if not most new HCs think they can take those programs and improve them. Those "improvements" wouldn't always pay off. Otherwise, every Coordinator that came into the league would be better than the HCs they played under.

Fisher has already spoken about when to push and when to hold back - when to give the guys a break, etc... He goes on to say things like - because we don't want guys pulling up lame, and in order to make it through camp with everybody healthy, yadda yadda yadda.

Maybe I keyed in on some of that because I have often wondered about how the different training regiments might be affecting injuries. I have a hard time attributing what we have seen to "bad luck".
Age isn't coincidence and luck is superstition.The injuries to Isaac Bruce were they "bad luck"? no,once Vermeil quit conditioning people into the ground,(BTW he was widely reputed to have left his Eagles SB on the practice field) Bruce was pretty injury free.
Injuries are not totally avoidable in a contact sport but the proposition that the last regime couldn't have done better is IMO a little bit bunker mentality, everyone can improve and every effort can be improved upon.
AND yeah experience teaches you when to say when, desperation inhibits that ability,I agree the experience we've acquired could help prevent the irrational exuberance of a noobie coach "whipping the horses" when it's time to rest them.

If we accept luck as an explanation we quit searching for answers,and JUST because the answers aren't apparent or even go against our assumptive worlds doesn't mean answers aren't worth searching for, nor that they don't exist, the only thing I'm sure does not exist IS luck,it's a myth.
 

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About the LBs, I'm hopin McIntosh can be a good stop gap. I wanted 2 see this guy signed last year and this year and it finally happened. I'm also hopin he isn't this year's Ben Leber.
 

RamFan503

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zn said:
But, the players haven't "acknowledged" anything about how they train or any of that.

Actually - yes they have.

zn said:
Fisher is just following the NFL rules for whether and how much physical contact there can be in practices and how often they can practice in pads and even how many practices you can have during a day.

Those were the same rules the last regime followed.

Yeah? So? Guess he can't change anything from what any other coach does within the rules. Spags didn't bring in MMA trainers either.

zn said:
I mean, I am not sure where you're getting this from, or what you're basing it on. Fisher is not doing anything differently from any other coach in the league when it comes to practices, contact and conditioning.

Really? They all do the same thing? Have you every played competitive sports? EVERY coach has a different training regimen. Many coaches change that regimen from season to season. To think that they don't base part of their program on techniques and processes they feel will lessen the number of injuries is ludicrous. Anything they believe gives them an edge is what they do. Being injury free (not that it's possible) might be the ultimate edge in the NFL.

zn said:
And besides, Fisher HAS had injury-strewn seasons (with the Titans of course).

Every coach has them. I guess that means they also can't learn from that and try to do things that will limit those injuries based on EXPERIENCE.

zn said:
Maybe you're referring to the fact that during the season he will back off when he senses a team needs it. But--if that were a culprit, then most injuries would occur past a certain breaking point when a team is deep into the season and banged up and worn out. But that's not the case. Amendola busted his arm for no apparent reason in game 1. Bradford got his ankle messed up in game 5. Bartell broke his neck in a freak collision early (forget which week). Fisher got tangled up with Sims-Walker during a practice, also early in the season (I also forget which week). Etc.

No... I'm referring to statements he's already made - talking about doing things a certain way so that the team makes it through training camp and practices healthy so they can head into the season with everyone at full strength. I have no doubt he will do other things throughout the season as well in order to try to limit injuries to his players. Do ALL coaches do that? Certainly. Do they all do it the same way or have the same base of experience to recognize the fine line? Certainly not. The idea that all injuries are dumb luck and there is nothing you can do to limit them doesn't make any sense. Are there always going to be unpreventable injuries? Of course. Will one team have more of them than others? Of course. Can training methods prevent some of the injuries? Well, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a coach that doesn't have that in mind when their staff designs his training regimen.

Bye the way, teaching players how to bend, hit, angles to take, etc... can ALL work to avoid injuries as well. Are they all teaching the same techniques?
 

RamFan503

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Angry Ram said:
About the LBs, I'm hopin McIntosh can be a good stop gap. I wanted 2 see this guy signed last year and this year and it finally happened. I'm also hopin he isn't this year's Ben Leber.

Or Poppinga
 

bluecoconuts

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RamFan503 said:
Angry Ram said:
About the LBs, I'm hopin McIntosh can be a good stop gap. I wanted 2 see this guy signed last year and this year and it finally happened. I'm also hopin he isn't this year's Ben Leber.

Or Poppinga

At least Poppinga was great for quotes. Guy was hilarious.
 

RamFan503

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bluecoconuts said:
RamFan503 said:
Angry Ram said:
About the LBs, I'm hopin McIntosh can be a good stop gap. I wanted 2 see this guy signed last year and this year and it finally happened. I'm also hopin he isn't this year's Ben Leber.

Or Poppinga

At least Poppinga was great for quotes. Guy was hilarious.

Yeah - wish that was why we signed him. At least then we would have got the goods as billed.
 

BuiltRamTough

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We will be a better team but just to compare our roster to another teams is depressing look at the 49ers roster they're stacked the rams are going to be. 4-7 win team
 

Thordaddy

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BuiltRamTough said:
We will be a better team but just to compare our roster to another teams is depressing look at the 49ers roster they're stacked the rams are going to be. 4-7 win team

Except that we DO have a far more physically gifted QB, probably one of the top 5 in the league as far as that goes. If he blossoms to say 85% of his potential he can make us very competitive.
I believe that every team has weaknesses and A.Smith is theirs along with the fact that they've loaded up with some older and thus logicaly more injury prone players who won't heal as fast so maybe they are the team with the injury problems this year and our new ,improved , younger roster is relatively injury free.
 

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Many of the key injured players last year were not older vets, destined to be hurt. Amendola, Bradford, Saffold, Smith, Murphy, Fletcher (uninjured knee); even Jackson and Bartell's injuries were flukey.

You can say luck is a myth, but that doesn't deny the fact that such plagues have happened to other teams as well over the years. I believe you make your own luck, and that as the bad starts to happen, sometimes a collective desperation can cause choices that aren't what one might do if things were normal. Amendola's elbow and Bartell's neck come to mind. Danny planted his arm trying to get more yards; Bartell turned his back to take the block on a 300-lb lineman. These are not typically sound techniques for a football field, and they are also unconsciously desperate.

I don't know if Fisher would have been able to stem the flood of injuries last year, but I can concede that his confidence could extend to getting his players to play more within themselves and play less risky football.

And yet, there's nothing that Fisher has done to date--even based on a few player comments that can't really be objective--that has reassured me there will be fewer health problems than last year, other than the fact that there has to be.
 

Warner4Prez

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RamFan503 said:
Angry Ram said:
About the LBs, I'm hopin McIntosh can be a good stop gap. I wanted 2 see this guy signed last year and this year and it finally happened. I'm also hopin he isn't this year's Ben Leber.

Or Poppinga

I think the LB corps is improved for sure. Last year they were banking on Leber and Poppinga starting, leaving Chamberlain (a special teamer) and Kehl (a journeyman) as our only hope behind them. This year we're looking at Dunbar and either Haggans or McIntosh which leaves one steady vet to rotate in, plus Hull who has great upside and maybe a rookie like Brown.

I think depth has improved a lot on defense obviously CB looks much better, the William Hayes signing doesn't get near the credit it deserves at DE and we've got solid depth at DT.
 

RamFan503

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I guess we'll all see if the injury bug hits us a little less severely this year. Even if we do have fewer injuries, there is nothing to say definitively that it had anything to do with the coaching staff. Obviously no amount of tweaking of the practice and training regimen is going to eliminate all injuries and we may have issues related to turf and such. But I remember reading several articles regarding the off season programs of different teams (including the Rams) and how the goal of certain phases was to help eliminate the risk of injuries. I also believe firmly that players can be trained how to hit, cut, keep their feet, etc. and that can all help to avoid injury in many ways.

Time will tell. I don't know that what I am saying will come to fruition. I have my guesses and my guess is that we will indeed see fewer injuries with this team. I could be dead wrong.

Now keep in mind. If we have greater depth in virtually every position group AND we have fewer injuries, what is to stop this team from contending? Again... Why not the RAMS!!!

That's alright. You guys can just listen to me say I told you so. And it will probably be the only time you listen to someone gloat and like it. :sly:
 

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Organized training is very important. The two best ways to prevent injury is to not under train or over train. That is why it is good to have an offseason. With the Olympics coming up, it brings to mind that athletes need to peak at the right time. Football is a little different, but the concept still applies, if you train too hard for too long, you will only break muscles down and stress them too much.

A good trainer knows when to shut guys down and give them the proper time to recover, and they also know how to get the athletes to break down lactic acid that builds up after a particular stressful event, like a game. Balance is key. Break down, build up.
 

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RamFan503 said:
I guess we'll all see if the injury bug hits us a little less severely this year.

Odds are they WILL have fewer injuries because nothing else the stupid dumb luck can't go on forever.
 
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