We have 3 players that are a bit problematic, huh?

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-X-

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I dunno man. Ever since I started practicing Buddhism, I can't seem to find my inner rage anymore. I think I lost it. Now I just get all eye-rolley instead. Prolly gonna have to make some more gifs to convey that sentiment, now that I think about it.
 

Rmfnlt

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I dunno man. Ever since I started practicing Buddhism, I can't seem to find my inner rage anymore. I think I lost it. Now I just get all eye-rolley instead. Prolly gonna have to make some more gifs to convey that sentiment, now that I think about it.
Hey, just checking.

If posting the same thing three times in a row is therapeutic for you, I say do it!

Get well, man.
:LOL:
 

Rmfnlt

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I thought Demoff had the final say money wise. He made a very bad financial deal that looked liked he pulled numbers out of his ass which was my initial reference. That's one of the three reasons we are in this thread. My point is Demoff should not allow anyone Fisher/Snead/McVay to make him grossly overpay a player. He should know the market and in this case he was way off. Did it cost the Rams not resigning Jenkins?
I see this possible scenario:
Fisher: "I want to extend Austin's contract - 4 years, $42 million, $28.5 guaranteed"
Demoff: "Jeff, I don't think that makes a lot of sense"
Fisher: "Well, I do and I think he's going to be worth it"
Demoff: "OK, Jeff... if you think so"

I don't see Demoff being able to tell Fisher "no" (unless it put them in serious cap hell)

I don't think he had that power.
 
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dieterbrock

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I dunno man. Ever since I started practicing Buddhism, I can't seem to find my inner rage anymore. I think I lost it. Now I just get all eye-rolley instead. Prolly gonna have to make some more gifs to convey that sentiment, now that I think about it.
Maybe this will cheer you up!
(From the trailer for Brokeback Mountain 2)
AX217_5CD3_9.jpg
 

-X-

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It's not about not being in cap trouble. It's about maximizing your financial resources to acquire the assests/players that help you win. Overpaying a player takes away the ability to get resign or acquire additional talent.

It seems like he did with the Tavon Austin contract. Everyone around the NFL thinks that was a horrible contract because of the pay numbers. I've said before, it was probably a Fisher desperation move that wanted to resign him him early. I still think Demoff has to have the common sense when to say no. He needs to override somethings for the betterment of the team even if they can handle deals financially longer term.
Yeah, I have a working knowledge of the salary cap management business model as it was conveyed by KD, but I'm no expert. I understand they have to maximize their assets. Every team has to do that. And every team has some questionable contracts from time to time. But I'm failing to see how Tavon, specifically, kept us from signing Barwin, Woods, Watkins, Whitworth, Barron, Webster, Robey-Coleman, etc.

I'm not going to get into speculation (re: Fisher *forced* KD to re-sign Tavon). That's fruitless. You can't prove that, and I can't disprove it. So let's just stick to the facts. Yes KD has the ability (common sense shouldn't be used as a pejorative) to override Les and the HC. He's already said that if the contract isn't doable for the short term AND long-term, then he'll veto it. As I said before, he has the whole of the team cap that he takes into consideration. But make no mistake -- it would be a colossal mistake to let KD (or any team COO/President) take the lead on player evals or team/system fit. That's not his(their) role and it should never be his(their) role.
 

-X-

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I don't see Demoff being able to tell Fisher "no".

I don't think he had that power.
Sure he did.
How does one have the power to hire/fire head coaches, but not the power to tell them no to contracts?
And also, Fisher had NO involvement in dictating a player's salary -- he negotiated with zero player agents.
None.
 

Rmfnlt

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Sure he did.
How does one have the power to hire/fire head coaches, but not the power to tell them no to contracts?
And also, Fisher had NO involvement in dictating a player's salary -- he negotiated with zero player agents.
None.
I dunno... of course, the firing was Kronke's decision... Demoff had to carry out the orders.

I think you're being a tad naive here... taken literally, of course Fisher wasn't negotiating with agents... but you really believe he didn't have significant input as to how much to pay Austin?

So, does it go:
Fisher: "I want to extend Austin's contract. Figure something out, Kevin."
Demoff: "OK, how about 4 years, $42 million, $28.5 guaranteed"?
Fisher: "You're the expert".

I guess you're saying Demoff was the brains behind that wonderful contract?
 

-X-

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but you really believe he didn't have significant input as to how much to pay Austin?
Not at all.

So, does it go:
Fisher: "I want to extend Austin's contract. Figure something out, Kevin."
Demoff: "OK, how about 4 years, $42 million, $28.5 guaranteed"?
Fisher: "You're the expert".
I wasn't there. But if I had to guess:

Fisher: I'd like to retain Austin long-term.
Demoff: Whatevs.
Fisher: Can we get it done?
Demoff: Yeah.
 

LesBaker

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Haha..........let me let you guys in on a secret.

@-X- when he is mad



@-X- when he is really channeling his inner rage.

 

jrry32

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Didn't that Cooper guy run a kickoff back for a TD Sunday? Wasn't that some pretty darned nifty running? Not comparable to what Austin can do/has done?

Coop doesn't have the speed on the jet sweeps. A big part of what makes them successful and dangerous is that Austin can win the corner even when the unblocked DE reads it right. It's why it either freezes the LBs or forces them to take false steps.
 

SteezyEndo

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Coop doesn't have the speed on the jet sweeps. A big part of what makes them successful and dangerous is that Austin can win the corner even when the unblocked DE reads it right. It's why it either freezes the LBs or forces them to take false steps.

I feel that we see TA has this speed, but he isn't confident or knows that he has that speed. I feel like he will second guess, and pause instead of just full throttling Forrest Gumping it past the LOS. He just has one simple objective Run, just Run. Once he gets that he may be more scary.

TA needs to watch this tape. He can be a DH, but he has to stop with that silly gazelle leg lift.
 
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1maGoh

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Not at all.


I wasn't there. But if I had to guess:

Fisher: I'd like to retain Austin long-term.
Demoff: Whatevs.
Fisher: Can we get it done?
Demoff: Yeah.

I always imagined it more like:

Fisher: Kevin, I want to extend Austin.
Demoff: Ok. Subjectively speaking, what's he worth?
Fisher: Best WR in the league. He's such a weapon if we can just figure out how to use him.
Demoff: You sure?
Fisher: Yup.
Demoff: You're the expert.
Fisher: Yup.


However, I tend to turn everyone into a caricature, so there's a slight chance I'm wrong.
 

Zaphod

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I don't like it, but I think you're right, save for the conclusion, and I'm not saying even that is right or wrong. I can certainly appreciate the sunk cost analysis. At 3 million dollar after his bonus, nothing is preventing another team from renting his services for a year, so a trade may yet be viable and this team will have to decide whether or not that $3M can be used elsewhere to greater affect.

It may be captain obvious to say so, but kid keeps playing himself out of roles with McVay who doesn't seem to trust him with anything other than a hand off at this point, which I can personally appreciate. Forcing the ball to him on the premise that he's capable of playing up to his salary/draft expectations has absolutely been detrimental to the offense in the past.

Is he worth $3M to us as a backup running back? I personally don't think he has the vision to take the hand offs on a consistent basis if something were to happen to our starter. He is a legitimate option addition to Gurley in the backfield, but if it's a sweep where he is lined up as a slot receiver, that's also a tell, which could be setting up the situation where another player would sell that option better as a legitimate threat to catch the ball (which has already been stated in this thread, just giving credit where it's due).

In the end, people are going to continue to lament the cost benefit aspect of his services, but the real 500 pound gorilla in the room is the "he has to be good because I bought his jersey" crowd feeding the cycle by insisting that every coordinator he's played for can't "get him the ball in space", but the tail wagging that dog is comprised of a dead horse to beat upon until it's not by the "yeah, but he can't catch the freaking football" crowd.
 

Zaphod

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Truth be told, if we were to trade him, even to a division rival, I wouldn't be worried about it at this point, not even in a vengeance game against his former team.