Wagoner On Bradford

[-X-]

As part of his online Chat Session.

Carolina Ram (Charlotte)

Mr. Wagoner, Bradford seems to be such a polarizing subject but I never hear anyone breakdown his skill set. What he does better than most NFL QBs and what he does worse. Does he lock on to receivers, is he able to recognize defenses pre-snap, etc... Also are his receivers running the routes as designed? Do they recognize the defense and make the adjustment to the route they should make? In other words are they consistently where they are supposed to be when they are to supposed to be there? I appreciate any light you can shed on the subject. Thanks

Nick Wagoner
(1:53 PM)

I think that's a fair question. First, some good: Bradford has a really good grasp of the offense and has a great understanding of how things are supposed to work when everyone is doing their job. He throws a really nice, accurate deep ball and in general is a pretty accurate quarterback (who has been the victim of countless drops in his career). His arm isn't the strongest in the world but he has plenty to fit it into tight windows and hit the deep out. Some bad: He struggles at times to go through his progressions and his pocket presence is lacking. He's quick to go to check downs and often refuses to throw the ball into coverage. Some of that may be a mistrust of his receivers to win one on one battles but sometimes you have to put faith in your receivers to go up and get it. And, of course, he's had his share of injury issues in half of his NFL seasons. That counts for something too. For the most part, he hasn't had much help from receivers to answer that part of the question. It's a young group and they miss sight adjustments fairly often.

 

[max]

Yup. That's very fair.

Some say that one reason he checks down so quickly is that he can't read the defense that well.

 

[jjab360]

In a nutshell.

 

[-X-]

Yup. That's very fair.

Some say that one reason he checks down so quickly is that he can't read the defense that well.

Eh.

What do you say?

 

[max]

Eh.

What do you say?

What the hell do I know. I have no way of evaluating that. I just read it or heard it somewhere.

Also, Sherman called Bradford a rhythm passer. I have no idea what that means in terms of ability to read a defense, either. But Sherman said it is harder to trick him. And I wonder if that is because Bradford already knows where he is going with the ball at the snap and doesn't focus on DBs who may be out of position.

 

[RFIP]

His arm isn't the strongest in the world

WHAT???? Let me say this from someone who has seen every single throw this guy ever made, from OU to today. Coming out I compared his arm to Warners, that is to say "average NFL arm.." BUT as he re-rabed from the broken collar bone his arm is without question top 5 in this league as far as velocity! Hell I remember the year they had that one DB from the Packers for a short bit (can't remember his name now, had the dreds, maybe #31?) and he said after being around Sam that his arm velocity was second only to Aaron Rodgers, he was amazed at Sam's gun.

 

[jjab360]

What the hell do I know. I have no way of evaluating that. I just read it or heard it somewhere.

Also, Sherman called Bradford a rhythm passer. I have no idea what that means in terms of ability to read a defense, either. But Sherman said it is harder to trick him. And I wonder if that is because Bradford already knows where he is going with the ball at the snap and doesn't focus on DBs who may be out of position.

Well, that's one way to put it. An optimistic person would say that Bradford doesn't get fooled easily and isn't as prone to taking unwarranted chances and turning the ball over.

 

[-X-]

What the hell do I know. I have no way of evaluating that. I just read it or heard it somewhere.

Also, Sherman called Bradford a rhythm passer. I have no idea what that means in terms of ability to read a defense, either. But Sherman said it is harder to trick him. And I wonder if that is because Bradford already knows where he is going with the ball at the snap and doesn't focus on DBs who may be out of position.

I'm glad to see you say that. Because no layman can determine if a QB is able/unable to read a defense. "Rhythm passer" is a term that applies to all QBs, basically. Once they get into that rhythm, they become quite effective. The things that disrupt that rhythm are breakdowns on the O-line and a series of drops/penalties that kill drives. And of course a defense that rattles/pressures the QB can disrupt that rhythm too. Our D was pretty effective at that on a number of occasions.

 

[jjab360]

WHAT???? Let me say this from someone who has seen every single throw this guy ever made, from OU to today. Coming out I compared his arm to Warners, that is to say "average NFL arm.." BUT as he re-rabed from the broken collar bone his arm is without question top 5 in this league as far as velocity! Hell I remember the year they had that one DB from the Packers for a short bit (can't remember his name now, had the dreds, maybe #31?) and he said after being around Sam that his arm velocity was second only to Aaron Rodgers, he was amazed at Sam's gun.

His arm isn't the strongest in the world. But then again, it doesn't have to be. Heck, Aaron Rodgers' arm isn't even as strong as Jamarcus Russell's or Joe Flacco's.

 

[-X-]

His arm isn't the strongest in the world. But then again, it doesn't have to be. Heck, Aaron Rodgers' arm isn't even as strong as Jamarcus Russell's or Joe Flacco's.

What would characterize a 'strong arm?' Is it distance? Velocity? How far would a QB have to be able to throw in order to have a strong arm?

 

[PhxRam]

Dieter Brock.. Now that guy had a cannon.

 

[…..]

I still think Sherman is partly responsible for Bradfords reluctance to throw into coverage and his early dump off's, etc. They instilled a fear of turning over the ball early on, and that was by design. I think its engrained now.

But it wasnt JUST Sherman... it was also partly because of our lack of playmakers at the time. It was a necessary evil in his rookie year.

 

[brokeu91]

I like Sam, I really do. I did wish he took chances more and threw the ball down the field. I know he doesn't trust his WR, but the protect the ball mentality that he has sometimes decreases the chance for a big play. The guy has as accurate of an arm as I've seen. He should be trying to throw it longer

 

[jjab360]

What would characterize a 'strong arm?' Is it distance? Velocity? How far would a QB have to be able to throw in order to have a strong arm?

In reality, it's probably way more important to have good ball velocity, but in general when you hear NFL evaluators talking about arm strength they're talking about a combination of the two.

It's not like there's a requisite distance that you have to be able to throw to be considered having a strong arm, but I'm sure you already know that. It's pretty impressive when you see Flacco flick it 74 yards like he does in this video, though.

 

[jjab360]

I still think Sherman is partly responsible for Bradfords reluctance to throw into coverage and his early dump off's, etc. They instilled a fear of turning over the ball early on, and that was by design. I think its engrained now.

But it wasnt JUST Sherman... it was also partly because of our lack of playmakers at the time. It was a necessary evil in his rookie year.

Are you talking about Pat Shurmur?

 

[RFIP]

His arm isn't the strongest in the world. But then again, it doesn't have to be. Heck, Aaron Rodgers' arm isn't even as strong as Jamarcus Russell's or Joe Flacco's.

You say this with some sort of conviction but I promise you, you are incorrect. he has a canon. Hell, even his most hated haters admit this. He's drilled more than a few balls off the chest plate of his receivers 15-20 yards down field.

Just pay attention if you hear anyone within the Rams speak on this subject.

 

[-X-]

In reality, it's probably way more important to have good ball velocity, but in general when you hear NFL evaluators talking about arm strength they're talking about a combination of the two.

It's not like there's a requisite distance that you have to be able to throw to be considered having a strong arm, but I'm sure you already know that. It's pretty impressive when you see Flacco flick it 74 yards like he does in this video, though.

Damn that's amazing. I've seen Bradford uncork a few, but not that far. This one here is about 60 (in the air).

 

[jjab360]

You say this with some sort of conviction but I promise you, you are incorrect. he has a canon. Hell, even his most hated haters admit this. He's drilled more than a few balls off the chest plate of his receivers 15-20 yards down field.

Just pay attention if you hear anyone within the Rams speak on this subject.

I'm not saying Bradford doesn't have a strong arm, because he does. Definitely top 12 in the league. I'm just saying he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, and there really isn't even a debate there. That's all I'm saying and that's all that Wagoner is saying. If you're going to try and argue that Sam has a stronger arm than Flacco, Newton, Vick, Cutler, or Stafford then you're just taking homer to another level.

 

[fearsomefour]

Damn that's amazing. I've seen Bradford uncork a few, but not that far. This one here is about 60 (in the air).

Well there is arm strength in the sense of just throwing it as far as you can and then there is being able to execute a throw into a tight space in game situations. This is where Farve really showed his arm strength. My son can throw a baseball 115 yards and football 55 yards....he cannot unleash that kind energy from the mound and have control. It also doesnt mean he could throw an out at 25 yards under a pass rush with accuracy and timing. So, while the discussion of arm strength is sort of fun it means nothing outside of skill set.
Jeff George is a prime example.

 

[RFIP]

I'm not saying Bradford doesn't have a strong arm, because he does. Definitely top 12 in the league. I'm just saying he doesn't have the strongest arm in the league, and there really isn't even a debate there. That's all I'm saying and that's all that Wagoner is saying. If you're going to try and argue that Sam has a stronger arm than Flacco, Newton, Vick, Cutler, or Stafford then you're just taking homer to another level.

I will say this, off balance Sam's arm is "ok" but if his feet are set, lol, he can spin it with the best of them.