This deserves its own thread (contract extensions)

[Legatron4]

The Rams trading away Brandin Cooks has me extremely bothered. Not because he’s that valuable, but because we just extended him two seasons ago. This has become a disturbing trend with this FO.

Since Les Snead has became GM, we have handed out 12 extensions. I will detail them below.

2012:
James Laurinaitis- 5 years $41.5 million. Played 3 more years. Cut after 2015.

Chris Long- 4 years $50 million. Played 3 more years. Cut after 2015.

2014:
Robert Quinn- 4 years $66 million. Played 3 more years. Traded to Dolphins after 2017.

Johnny Hekker- 6 years $18 million. Currently still on roster.

2015:
Nick Foles- 2 years $24.5 million. Played 1 year. Cut after 2015.

2016:
Tavon Austin- 4 years $42 million. Played 1 more year. Traded to Cowboys after 2017.

Jeff Fisher- 2 years. Fired 1 game later.

2017:
Alec Ogletree- 4 years $42.75 million. Traded to Giants after 2017 season.

2018:
Brandin Cooks- 5 years $80 million. Played 2 seasons. Traded to Texans after 2019 season.

Todd Gurley- 4 years $60 million. Played 1 more year. Cut after 2019 season.

Aaron Donald- 6 years $135 million. Greatest player of all time.

2019:
Jared Goff- 4 years $134 million. Current QB1.

I only counted the years after the contract was signed(unless they were cut/traded after that season or it was their first season with Rams).

The average amount of years with the team after signing an extension is 1.75 with the average extension being 4 years.

$56 million in dead cap hits total.


This is a sign of dysfunction. Well run teams don’t have these issues. I’m not sure if there’s one single person to blame. But in my opinion, someone needs to be fired.

 

[Legatron4]

My apologies, I forgot about Brockers. He’s actually on his 3rd extension. Funny enough, both of extensions were practically identical. 3 years $33 million.

Brockers bumps up the average years after extension to 2.

 

[Allen2McVay]

Higbee, Havenstein, Saffold and Barron.

 

[jaffej]

Troy Hill and Malcolm Brown too

 

[RamFan503]

Didn't NRC, Zeurline, and McQuade sign extensions too?

 

[RamFan503]

Another question. Did you actually research other teams to see if they really don't have this issue?

 

[Dieter the Brock]

Damned if you do
Damned if you don’t

You forgot Jake McQuaid alm:

 

[OldSchool]

And if he hadn't signed these contracts the guys blow up and the thread is started talking about how terrible he is. I have no problem with them locking guys up, hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

 

[payote75]

In my opinion typically if you sign someone to "x" amount of years and they get cut in that final year im usually ok with that not ideal but ok as that happens a lot in the nfl being from injuries age the violence of the game decreased skills it all takes a toll so I'm ok with that. What's horrifying is when you sign players to big deals and you cut then 2 or 3 years early hence TG and Cooks. Those can be crippling.

That being said luckily the nfl has shifted somewhat. In large part thanks to the Rams trade wise. Seems like the Rams opened up the flood gates sort of like pioneers in showing other teams trading players is possible lol. My point is though you still suffer with these bad contracts though it isn't as harsh as in many cases teams can escape with there lives barely by dumping them. As little as 5 years ago that was unheard of and trading players hardly ever took place.

 

[Loyal]

The only thing that pizzes me off, is why didn't Drew Bennett get extended!?! ~ Old School
@OldSchool

 

[Legatron4]

Higbee, Havenstein, Saffold and Barron.

Saffold was resigned but yes seems like I missed those during my little late night research.

 

[Legatron4]

Another question. Did you actually research other teams to see if they really don't have this issue?

Good point. I’ll dig a little deeper into seeing how other teams have fared.

 

[TexasRam]

The only thing worse than dead
Money is keeping injured and unproductive players around.

Play the hand you are dealt.

Sometimes that means fold some bad hands so you can have a chance to compete later.

You know, Cut you’re losses.

 

[Legatron4]

And if he hadn't signed these contracts the guys blow up and the thread is started talking about how terrible he is. I have no problem with them locking guys up, hindsight is 20/20 as they say.

I think JL55, CL91 and RQ94 were all justifiable. But signing Foles and Cooks to extension before they ever took a snap was irresponsible. Although I’m glad Foles didn’t get a massive deal.

Tavon Austin and Alex Ogletree were complete failures IMO. Both should have gotten the 5th year option.

 

[kurtfaulk]

But signing Foles and Cooks to extension before they ever took a snap was irresponsible.

seriously?

what's the difference between doing that and signing a FA?

.

 

[thirteen28]

The Rams trading away Brandin Cooks has me extremely bothered. Not because he’s that valuable, but because we just extended him two seasons ago. This has become a disturbing trend with this FO.

Since Les Snead has became GM, we have handed out 12 extensions. I will detail them below.

2012:
James Laurinaitis- 5 years $41.5 million. Played 3 more years. Cut after 2015.

Chris Long- 4 years $50 million. Played 3 more years. Cut after 2015.

2014:
Robert Quinn- 4 years $66 million. Played 3 more years. Traded to Dolphins after 2017.

Johnny Hekker- 6 years $18 million. Currently still on roster.

2015:
Nick Foles- 2 years $24.5 million. Played 1 year. Cut after 2015.

2016:
Tavon Austin- 4 years $42 million. Played 1 more year. Traded to Cowboys after 2017.

Jeff Fisher- 2 years. Fired 1 game later.

2017:
Alec Ogletree- 4 years $42.75 million. Traded to Giants after 2017 season.

2018:
Brandin Cooks- 5 years $80 million. Played 2 seasons. Traded to Texans after 2019 season.

Todd Gurley- 4 years $60 million. Played 1 more year. Cut after 2019 season.

Aaron Donald- 6 years $135 million. Greatest player of all time.

2019:
Jared Goff- 4 years $134 million. Current QB1.

I only counted the years after the contract was signed(unless they were cut/traded after that season or it was their first season with Rams).

The average amount of years with the team after signing an extension is 1.75 with the average extension being 4 years.

$56 million in dead cap hits total.


This is a sign of dysfunction. Well run teams don’t have these issues. I’m not sure if there’s one single person to blame. But in my opinion, someone needs to be fired.

Not all of those are created equal.

With Long and Lauranitis, I don't recall any significant cap ramifications with those cuts. Both were paid, when they deserved to be paid, and in amounts that they deserved. They were cut when they were clearly on the downsides, and without too much pain to our cap, if any.

I don't recall the cap hit with Quinn, but there were two factors at play there. The most prominent were injuries that had rendered him to be significantly less of a player relative to the time he had signed. The other was a fundamental change to the defensive scheme. The second might have been something that could have been overcome by him, talented as he was. The first there was just no avoiding. And whatever the cap hit was for trading him, I don't think it killed us either.

Hekker? Worth every damn penny so far. Bit of a down year last year, by his standards. I'm confident he'll bounce back.

Foles ... mixed here. They didn't want to bring him in, have him succeed, and then let him walk after a year. The biggest problems with Foles here seemed to be more a function of Fisher and Rob Borass, the latter being an OC that was bad enough to make one pine for the halcyon days of the Brian Schottenheimer Aerial Circus. But whatever cap ramifications there were, they were only for a year.

Austin and Ogletree? I'll grant you those, bad contracts for what they got when they got them, and a lot of people said so at the time. The Rams probably should have picked up the 5th year options and see what transpired.

Donald's contract, expensive as it was, was the biggest no-brainer of all time. He stands comfortably with, and possibly above, the pantheon of other Rams all time DL greats.

Goff? If he gets back to his 2017/2018 form (and really, he wasn't terrible in 2019), his contract will eventually look like a good deal for the Rams. Mahomes will definitely get a lot more than Goff, and Dak likely will given that his deal will come a couple years later than Goff's. The strategy with Jared was to get him done before those guys and before the market was set at a much higher value.

That brings us to Cooks and Gurley. I didn't mind either of those deals at the time. Cooks had been a very productive receiver for both of his previous teams, and his performance in 2018 continued that trend emphatically. Gurley's production in 2017 and the first 2/3 of 2018 was off the charts. Some say "oh but he's a RB", but during that time, Gurley was more than just that, he was a franchise back that a defense absolutely had to gameplan around, with the results often being that he was still unstoppable.

The common denominator with those contracts going sideways? Injuries. It's nothing more than that. Had Gurley's knee stayed intact, had Cooks avoided concussions and continued to produce at the same rate as 2018, we're not even having these conversations and other than a few penny pinchers, few would be complaining about those contracts. I'm sure if Les and Sean had a crystal ball that would have confirmed they would both be injured in the future, they wouldn't have recommended retaining those players.

There's one other I want to mention on the other side as well - Robert Woods. I remember when he was signed, some people said we overpaid, and there have been a few that have grumbled the same in the years since. That's absolute lunacy. For the money we paid Woods relative to the production he's given, that signing has been an absolute bargain. The upshot? If we are going to ding the front office for contracts that don't work out, we also have to recognize the ones that do.

 

[Liberator]

I see your point but the alternative is to let talent leave the building.

 

[RamsOfCastamere]

Here is my opinion.

We changed coaches and philosophies with the hiring of McVay/Wade, and had to move players to fit the new scheme. After that, we committed to a core group of players (Goff, Gurley, Donald, Cooks, Whitworth), but unfortunately due to injuries (Gurley/Cooks) and the performance of others, we have to move the cap around to support new members, Ramsey and Kupp hopefully.

2021 and beyond, our cap should be committed to Donald, Goff, Ramsey, and Kupp, and we'll rotate players from the draft and short-term FAs to the remainder of the positions. As Whitworth ages out, hopefully we'll figure out which members of the OL to commit to as well.

 

[Merlin]

Been saying it and saying it... Les Snead (in spite of how well liked he is around here) is on the hot seat. This is a crucial season for him and if this year's roster falls short he will hopefully be replaced by a GM whose eye is on the future.

IMO Snead's that guy who sits down and starts cleaning house in poker but loses it all once the other players realize he bluffs too much.

 

[Ram65]

Snead doesn't works in a vacuum. McVay signs off the extensions and could even ask for them. You can bet that he was very involved in extending and releasing Gurley. He also really wanted Cooks for two years and was involved in his being traded away. Demoff and Pastoors do the contracts.

I stated Gurley's contract was over the top money-wise at the time of the signing. I think I liked the extension but, don't remember what I thought. Running backs are riskier than other positions. Had the Rams gotten another year or two out of TG it would have been great.

Cooks got market value. I was hoping for less yearly average money. Rams stepped up and gave him five years. They (McVay) wanted him and got him.

Ogletree was strange in that they traded him a year later. Cost them $6.4 Mil in dead money. Bad timing with Rams going to 3-4 and him missing tackles.

Austin was overpaid and two years before his deal was up. I liked him and thought he could be a good asset. He was exciting to watch.

Goff-No brainer.

Free agency frenzy has changed the NFL. Players are asking for and getting more guaranteed money. If you don't resign them someone will eventually overpay them and guarantee a lot of the money. Extending Goff early saved money as the cost keeps going up especially for QBs. Had Gurley and Cooks stayed healthy things would have been fine.
This really is the first I can remember the Rams having any real considerable amount of dead cap space. I think Faulk and SJ39 had some dead money. You just have to hope they pick and choose the right deals to make. It's a crapshoot. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. The Rams just have to be able to pivot on a dime to right the ship. I think they are doing that right now to right the ship and still have a really good team this year.

Note: I do think they give player-friendly deals. They redid TG's deal so he got paid early than they had too. It seems like it didn't make a difference when they had to cut him even though he will make $17Mil this year. He seems a little bitter.