The Ol

[max]

The more I think about it, the more it becomes clear that the retread OL approach is a recipe for a mess.

Wells and Dahl are breaking down. If you bring them back, it's a high risk that you will have to shuffle the OL once again.

We may be stuck with Jake Long for a little bit, but he's a high risk to break down as well.

Then there's Saffold, who isn't old but can't stay healthy, at least not at OT. Starting the year with Saffold at LOT should be very scary to Rams fans. There is a real possibility that he goes down again and the Rams are stuck playing Barksdale at LOT.

How many times do we have to see this movie before we realize that we need a younger healthier OL?

I keep hearing that Fisher likes to groom his OL from lower round picks. Well, after 2 years, that plan ain't working so well. So far all he's got to show for it on the plus side is Barksdale. The rest of those guys are subpar players like Williams and Smith.

Now Fisher is gonna bring back Bradford with a surgical knee. If he doesn't address the OL early in this draft and puts Sam behind a retread OL that breaks down and gets shuffled again this year, then Fisher deserves to be fired, IMO.

 

[Flipper_336]

Obviously, we can't overhaul the whole line in one year. Wells and Dahl have to go: they simply aren't providing value for money. The injury to Long further complicates matters.

That makes keeping hold of Saffold our number one priority in free agency. He can become an elite guard and can fill in at left tackle while Long is out injured.

We would still need a long-term replacement for Long, so drafting Matthews, Robinson, Lewan or whoever is still a must. And we still need another starting calibre guard, so I would use our second round pick on that position.

With Barnes or Jones at centre, Saffold at guard and Barksdale at right/swing tackle, a couple of rookie additions would give us the foundations of a very solid line.

 

[jrry32]

You have my agreement.

 

[LumberTubs]

I agree. For the most part, the projected starting OL for next season is unknown and what we do have is probably not fit for purpose and certainly not set up for long term success. There are too many question marks. The OL (along with the secondary) has to be the priority in FA and, more likely, the draft.

The ideal scenario would be to have the basis of a really good O line by the start of 2014 (big task, I know) and then draft one or two O linemen a year who can be groomed to start after a year or two. The O line has to have as close to a hive mind mentality as possible and that's achieved through continuity and experience of playing together

 

[max]

Obviously, we can't overhaul the whole line in one year. Wells and Dahl have to go: they simply aren't providing value for money. The injury to Long further complicates matters.

That makes keeping hold of Saffold our number one priority in free agency. He can become an elite guard and can fill in at left tackle while Long is out injured.

We would still need a long-term replacement for Long, so drafting Matthews, Robinson, Lewan or whoever is still a must. And we still need another starting calibre guard, so I would use our second round pick on that position.

With Barnes or Jones at centre, Saffold at guard and Barksdale at right/swing tackle, a couple of rookie additions would give us the foundations of a very solid line.

That's a very reasonable viewpoint and approach.

And here's my hardline position on this subject. Fisher needs to finally break his long history of not drafting OL high in the draft. That ain't gonna cut it this year.

 

[Alan]

Except for birthday, specialty and welcome to the ROD threads, I think this is the first thread I've seen where everyone agrees with everyone.

I'll join in and say I agree with you all.

It would have been more interesting if someone disagreed though.

Just saying. :stirthepot:

 

[max]

Except for birthday, specialty and welcome to the ROD threads, I think this is the first thread I've seen where everyone agrees with everyone.

I'll join in and say I agree with you all.

It would have been more interesting if someone disagreed though.

Just saying. :stirthepot:

Just go on to zn's new board if you want hear the other side. There are guys that actually prefer not drafting OL high this year. They want WRs and DTs in the first round. That's what scares me. I'm afraid that Fisher agrees with them.

 

[jrry32]

Just go on to zn's new board if you want hear the other side. There are guys that actually prefer not drafting OL high this year. They want WRs and DTs in the first round. That's what scares me. I'm afraid that Fisher agrees with them.

Don't worry, Max. You can find OLs in the mid and late rounds. I mean...yea...odds are that you won't. But because there are a few examples of guys that were found there, I'll just go on believing that almost every OL drafted in the mid to late rounds goes on to become a quality starter. And I'll conveniently ignore that the "hit rate" on OLs in the first round is significantly higher than the mid to late rounds and they're one of the safest positions you can draft in terms of boom vs. bust picks in the first round.

 

[max]

Don't worry, Max. You can find OLs in the mid and late rounds. I mean...yea...odds are that you won't. But because there are a few examples of guys that were found there, I'll just go on believing that almost every OL drafted in the mid to late rounds goes on to become a quality starter. And I'll conveniently ignore that the "hit rate" on OLs in the first round is significantly higher than the mid to late rounds and they're one of the safest positions you can draft in terms of boom vs. bust picks in the first round.

The don't draft OL high argument is you don't need to. The SB teams don't have a bunch of high picks on the OL. They cite the Giants as the prime example. They won 2 SBs without a 1st round OL.

Funny thing about the Fisher approach, it never worked out all that well for him. Imagine if he didn't have McNair at QB? It would have been worse.

 

[jrry32]

The don't draft OL high argument is you don't need to. The SB teams don't have a bunch of high picks on the OL. They cite the Giants as the prime example. They won 2 SBs without a 1st round OL.

Funny thing about the Fisher approach, it never worked out all that well for him. Imagine if he didn't have McNair at QB? It would have been worse.

Ironically, that same argument works for nearly every single position. Packers won a Super Bowl without a first round WR. Patriots won three Super Bowls with a 6th round QB. Insert Team Here won a Super Bowl without a first round HB.

There will always be examples to find to suit the argument you're making.

And I agree, it wasn't the best approach. And the guy happened to inherit a team with a HOF LG/C in Bruce Matthews and a Pro Bowl LT in Brad Hopkins. Both of whom were first round picks.

Hopefully, Snead can convince him otherwise here.

 

[MerlinJones]

I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this, but I feel like Barrett Jones is becoming Rokevious Watkins (but not because of a love of the Whopper).

A lot of people on multiple sites are penciling him in as a contributor before we really know what his status is, or quite frankly if he can even succeed at this level. People loved to post how Watkins was going to dominate once he was in the lineup, while the only place he dominated was the buffet.

If a center like Bryan Stork or Travis Swanson are there in the third round I'd have to think hard about drafting him.

 

[jrry32]

I don't know if anyone will agree with me on this, but I feel like Barrett Jones is becoming Rokevious Watkins (but not because of a love of the Whopper).

A lot of people on multiple sites are penciling him in as a contributor before we really know what his status is, or quite frankly if he can even succeed at this level. People loved to post how Watkins was going to dominate once he was in the lineup, while the only place he dominated was the buffet.

If a center like Bryan Stork or Travis Swanson are there in the third round I'd have to think hard about drafting him.

I'll have to leave that up to the coaches. I liked what I saw of Barrett in college but none of us know what he can do in the NFL. So if they feel Center needs to be filled, I'll trust them on that.

 

[Rams and Gators]

If it was up to me we'd take two O linemen in the first two rounds, tackle in the first, guard in the second, bring back Saffold (or sign a FA OG for the same money) and hopefully the only question mark is at centre.

 

[Alan]

max freaking out:
Just go on to zn's new board if you want hear the other side. There are guys that actually prefer not drafting OL high this year. They want WRs and DTs in the first round. That's what scares me. I'm afraid that Fisher agrees with them.

Read my new The Offensive Line thread. and you'll feel better.

 

[Alan]

Alan bumping his post because he screwed up again:
Read my new The Offensive Line thread. and you'll feel better.

Crap.

 

[-X-]

You have my agreement.

And mine. I've been lobbying for fresh legs on the OL for a few years now. Often times bringing up how SF drafted a tackle and guard in the first round of one draft and it doesn't seem to be affecting their ability to produce wins. Something doesn't quite mesh between this Org's philosophy of drafting and developing their own talent in lieu of acquiring free agents ... and how they assemble their lines. Maybe there was just a talent void early on and they just prioritized playmakers over trench diggers. I certainly understand that. I just hope there's a swing in that priority soon though.

 

[jrry32]

And mine. I've been lobbying for fresh legs on the OL for a few years now. Often times bringing up how SF drafted a tackle and guard in the first round of one draft and it doesn't seem to be affecting their ability to produce wins. Something doesn't quite mesh between this Org's philosophy of drafting and developing their own talent in lieu of acquiring free agents ... and how they assemble their lines. Maybe there was just a talent void early on and they just prioritized playmakers over trench diggers. I certainly understand that. I just hope there's a swing in that priority soon though.

Yep, I'd be jumping for joy if we used 2 of our 4 picks in the first 3 rounds on OLs...well...if we used them wisely of course(in my opinion).

Hell, I'd probably run a naked mile if we found a way to come away with both Jake Matthews and Greg Robinson. Boy would that be something. But that's a pipe dream. :nau:

 

[rams24/7]

The more and more I think about it, I think its 60/40 Wells stays. He has played very well when healthy, but not quite up to the price of his contract. Nonetheless I think Fish gives him this year (healthy or not) and they move on in 2015. Worst case scenario, we're going through a similar situation with Barnes & Jones stepping in for Wells if he's injured again. Although releasing Wells would save around $5M in cap, imo the Rams may keep Wells.

Dahl is easier, no guaranteed $, injured often, play has clearly fallen off since 2011. With the money saved from cutting Dahl, cut or restructure w/Finn, slight cap increase, we should have the money to resign Saffold, Dunbar, Barnes, & Smith.

Like Rams & Gators^ I would like to see us go OT & OG in the first few rounds. I'm really starting to like Greg Robinson, maybe a rawer talent than Matthews, but also has a higher ceiling. Plus we have the BEST OL coach in the NFL who will be salivating to develop Robinson. There's also a talented crop of massive guards that will be availible when we pick in the 2nd (possibly in the 3rd). There's no question we need to get younger at the position, and drafting 2 starters will help.

Bringing back Saffold & Wells (plus rehabbing Long) could be risky (healthwise), but that's why I suggest insurance w/draft picks & resigning our FA OLmen. I while I understand when some say cut Wells, Dahl, and/or let Saffold walk (plus Long rehabbing), you also have to view it from a coaching standpoint. That would leave you potentially in week 1 with one returning OL from 2013. If Wells & Saffold return in 2014 we have continuity with C-RT & potentially only have one new OL (LG) by midseason (when Long returns). We may have to bite the bullet on two contracts (Wells & Long) in 2014, but we have the talent developing behind them to be ready in 2015.

My potential 2014 OL:

LT Greg Robinson, Roger Saffold, Jake Long
LG Gabe Jackson, Roger Saffold
C Scott Wells, Tim Barnes, Barrett Jones
RG Roger Saffold, Shelly Smith
RT Joe Barksdale, Roger Saffold

Talk about an OL that would get push in the run game! Jackson and Robinson run blocking together would be a nightmare for opposing teams!

 

[Thordaddy]

Just go on to zn's new board if you want hear the other side. There are guys that actually prefer not drafting OL high this year. They want WRs and DTs in the first round. That's what scares me. I'm afraid that Fisher agrees with them.

No thanks a ball pin hammer to the head is quicker and has the same effect.
But ya know max ,setting parameters by which you think Fish should be fired the way you do may not be an indication it's what you WANT, but you seem to "keep the knives sharp" a lil more than I'm down with

 

[Angry Ram]

There's too many unknowns right now for me to make lineup projections.

I just know the interior is a higher priority tho than OT, IMO. We could probably be seeing what the Bears w/ their OL last year (only one starter returned, their center).